What the Hell is Wrong with DVC?

[Sandisw]

So do you think it was correct that they felt they had to make a knee jerk reaction at the beginning of those two weeks?

To me it seems irresponsible they did not wait at least two weeks to make a decision, after which they would have known for sure whether or not the closure would only be for two weeks, or whether it would be longer.

I am a big fan of Disney/DVC, but in this case I think they "blew it" by "jumping the gun"

I do think it was the right move because when it started, they only did it for the reservations during those two weeks. Like I said, we have no idea how many points get borrowed.

They are responsible for trying to mitigate, and this move does that.
For me, it makes sense and is consistent of what they typically do with hurricanes,

Of course, not everyone will agree with the moves they make.

 

[dismedvc]

I do think it was the right move because when it started, they only did it for the reservations during those two weeks.

My reason for calling it a knee jerk reaction is, why did they not wait two weeks to see if the resorts actually reopened as they assumed/expected. If the parks actually did reopen, making the decision two weeks later would have the same benefits.

However, by making that decision before the resorts actually reopened, they set a precedent, and now will be doing it for reservations during a minimum of two months and two weeks (longer if the resorts do not reopen on June 1st). Plus, I believe, (correct me if I am wrong) any vacations cancelled by members beyond that time frame.

As you have stated in other posts, DVCM could decide to stop returning borrowed points at any time. That would really upset members who might then lose their borrowed points, since other members with borrowed points did not lose them.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

My reason for calling it a knee jerk reaction is, why did they not wait two weeks to see if the resorts actually reopened as they assumed/expected. If the parks actually did reopen, making the decision two weeks later would have the same benefits. Wait and see is not a response. If Disney waited until the parks opened it creates far worse problems. If Jan 1, 2021 is the re open then it is far to late for any decision. If Disney waited 2 weeks what happens to the owners of the points for that 2 weeks? Are you suggesting Disney can retroactively bring those points back? Would it really make a difference to you if they had waited 2 weeks to do exactly the same thing or would you just be writing they should have waited 4 weeks.

However, by making that decision before the resorts actually reopened, they set a precedent, and now have been doing it for reservations during at least two months and two weeks. Plus any vacations cancelled by members beyond that time frame. Today is April 12, 2020 how have they been doing this for 2 months and 2 weeks? Member vacations cancelled only adds rooms back to the system for those with banked and current use year issues. How is that bad?

As you have stated in other posts, DVCM could decide to stop returning borrowed points at any time. That would really upset members who might then lose their borrowed points, since other members with borrowed points did not lose them. Again this is mitigated by other members cancelling.

 

[dismedvc]

@dsnymnkyuncle said: Wait and see is not a response.
That seems to be DVCM's response to everything else.
"A decision will be made when we better understand how long COVID-19 will impact our operations."

If Jan 1, 2021 is the reopen date I do not agree "then it is far to late for any decision". Although I would think they will "better understand" and announce a decision before that.

My position is they should have waited to announce any decision related to the closure until they were prepared to announce a decision on everything related to the closure.

ETA: We obviously have different views on this and I do not see any benefit to this thread for me to discuss this point further, so if you want to reply, I will let you have the last word.

 

[Sandisw]

My reason for calling it a knee jerk reaction is, why did they not wait two weeks to see if the resorts actually reopened as they assumed/expected. If the parks actually did reopen, making the decision two weeks later would have the same benefits.

However, by making that decision before the resorts actually reopened, they set a precedent, and now will be doing it for reservations during a minimum of two months and two weeks (longer if the resorts do not reopen on June 1st). Plus, I believe, (correct me if I am wrong) any vacations cancelled by members beyond that time frame.

As you have stated in other posts, DVCM could decide to stop returning borrowed points at any time. That would really upset members who might then lose their borrowed points, since other members with borrowed points did not lose them.

Right now, it seems it is being done for reservations through June, I have not seen posts lasted than that,

Again, you can disagree with the decision, but I doubt it wasn’t thought out.

Doing nothing, IMO, to help spread out the points was their responsibility and putting points back to the UY that has rooms attached to them, was the prudent move at this time,

As I said, I don’t agree with the notion of let’s pretend this is going to last 6 months. Decisions were made on facts at hand.

No matter how people feel, the move is definitely helping those people out to book rooms this summer, whose points will expire. There are less points competing since people had borrowed points returned, My Aug UY points are now in October instead of July. So, in that sense, someone with banked points was able to book a room because I didn’t have to,

The only thing not doing anything would have done is make it much harder for those with expiring points to use them.

 

[dismedvc]

Different topic from my post #264

Right now, it seems it is being done for reservations through June, I have not seen posts lasted than that,

The official notice on the DVC member website states
"When a reservation involving Borrowed Points is cancelled, the Borrowed Points will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from. This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date. Please allow up to 15 business days for this process to be completed."

I interpreted that to mean if a member cancels a reservation today, for a stay starting in November (too use one example) and that reservation used borrowed points those borrowed points would be returned within 15 days of the cancelation. It would not even matter whether or not the resort was open in November.
Am I incorrect?

 

[Sandisw]

Different topic from my post #264

The official notice on the DVC member website states
"When a reservation involving Borrowed Points is cancelled, the Borrowed Points will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from. This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date. Please allow up to 15 business days for this process to be completed."

I interpreted that to mean if a member cancels a reservation today, for a stay starting in November (too use one example) and that reservation used borrowed points those borrowed points would be returned within 15 days of the cancelation. It would not even matter whether or not the resort was open in November.
Am I incorrect?

II have read elsewhere that someone was given normal rules for a fall date when they inquired,

It does seem to indicate that someone canceling later in The year is eligible. Of course, some of those points would be 2021

However, as I stated, I have not seen any confirmation of someone actually doing in beyond June,

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

There is a mistake in the reasoning here and not just with the assumption that Disney made a knee jerk decision. It is extremely unlikely it was a hasty or uniformed decision. It was based on real world numbers with actual point use and total knowledge of the borrow/banked point actually in play. It was made by smart, honest, trained and dedicated professionals. You don't have to agree but you should not insult or attempt to minimize what they do.

Curious now who you are? A DVC rep who signed up on the boards a little over a week ago?

It was a decision they made immediately without waiting to see how this would all play out. They then reversed the decision - somewhere around a week later? Then when owners complained that some owners already had their points returned and it wasn't fair to not receive the same they reversed the decision again. That's pretty much knee jerk reactions.

 

[pineapplepalms]

II have read elsewhere that someone was given normal rules for a fall date when they inquired,

It does seem to indicate that someone canceling later in The year is eligible. Of course, some of those points would be 2021

However, as I stated, I have not seen any confirmation of someone actually doing in beyond June,

They let me put borrowed points back for a July Aulani trip but not for a November WDW stay.

 

[GGGT]

Curious now who you are? A DVC rep who signed up on the boards a little over a week ago? ..............

I thought the same thing.

 

[DeeCee735]

They put back our borrowed points into the original year. We have a reservation using current points for this coming October (October is our Use Year). I have no intention of cancelling that trip unless this thing goes to the end of the year. That said, I have yet to book flights.
I'm also an AP holder, and they extended the expiration date of my AP for the amount of days they remain closed.

In my recent experience, no matter what Disney has done, it can't possibly be as bad as Marriott. We lost our week, had to pay MORE money to join Interval International and will have to pay MORE money to use the trade out week - which isn't even showing up in our account yet! And, we will only have a 120 day booking window - AND it expires in a year, in which we will have to PAY MORE money to renew our Interval membership if we can't find a trade out prior to March of 2020. It's like being robbed. JMHO and experience.

Good luck everyone. Stay home, stop the spread, save lives.

Dee

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think it ridiculous to believe anything to date has not been knee jerk. On neither a federal nor a state level has there been a consistent or coordinated approach, and Disney has solely been responding to the actions taken on state levels (CA and FL, mostly, but also HI due to new quarantine rules there). Once everything else was shut there was no reason to keep HHI open even though South Carolina only ordered SAH as of April 6.

 

[4evryoung]

One of the things DVC may be "waiting to see", or get better data on is the rate of default on loans and/or failure to pay dues. Depending on how big the numbers are here, that could take a large number of points out of the game. Yes, it would mean some short term financial loses for DVC until it could reclaim and resell contracts, but it might balance out some of the points allocation issues for 2020 and 2021, making other actions that impact the membership harder unnecessary.

 

[dismedvc]

They let me put borrowed points back for a July Aulani trip but not for a November WDW stay.

Since the official notice on the DVC member website states:
"When a reservation involving Borrowed Points is cancelled, the Borrowed Points will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from. This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date." I do not understand why they would not let you put borrowed points back for your November WDW stay, given the way the official notice is worded.

However, based on your experience it appears the "all reservations regardless of arrival date" may only apply to cancellations made by DVCM because the resorts are closed, not to cancellations made by members. If that is the case, DCVM needs to reword the official notice.

I am sure the smart, honest, trained and dedicated professionals at DVCM will do that rewording once they realize the current wording of theofficial notice is confusing. (Yes, I realize the sentence above is a snarky comment, but I could not resist)

ETA: thanks @KAT4DISNEY for pointing out that @dsnymnkyuncle only joined these boards on April 4th 2020, I had not noticed that.

 

[Sandisw]

Since the official notice on the DVC member website states:
"When a reservation involving Borrowed Points is cancelled, the Borrowed Points will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from. This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date." I do not understand why they would not let you put borrowed points back for your November WDW stay, given the way the official notice is worded.

However, based on your experience it appears the "all reservations regardless of arrival date" may only apply to cancellations made by DVCM because the resorts are closed, not to cancellations made by members. If that is the case, DCVM needs to reword the official notice.

I am sure the smart, honest, trained and dedicated professionals at DVCM will do that rewording once they realize the current wording of theofficial notice is confusing. (Yes, I realize the sentence above is a snarky comment, but I could not resist)

ETA: thanks @KAT4DISNEY for pointing out that @dsnymnkyuncle only joined these boards on April 4th 2020, I had not noticed that.

I think it is important to read the entire policy to keep it all in context. The first paragraph states it applies to reservations during closure and will be canceled by MS.

It then explains what will happen to those points being canceled weekly by MS. So, it is implied that the arrival date would be ones to be part of the closure.



Please remember that all new members are welcome here on the Dis and any opinions shared, regardless of when someone joined, need to be valued and respected.

 

[dismedvc]

I think it is important to read the entire policy to keep it all in context. The first paragraph states it applies to reservations during closure and will be canceled by MS.

Agreed, and I did read the entire policy. However, if (as implied in the fist paragraph) it only applies to reservations during closure that will be automatically cancelled by Disney Vacation Club on a week to week basis, there was no need to add "This applies to all reservations regardless of arrival date" in the second paragraph. That is what caused my confusion. If they were going to add anything in the second paragraph, I think it would have been clearer to say This applies to all reservations for as long as the resorts remain closed, or this applies to all reservations that are automatically cancelled. The way it is currently worded is confusing, at least to me.

I cannot believe, the notice DVC has posted is so poorly written IMHO given its importance. I would have thought DVC would have been more precise in their wording, so there could be no confusion.

 

[dismedvc]

Please remember that all new members are welcome here on the Dis and any opinions shared, regardless of when someone joined, need to be valued and respected.

I apologize for not being more respectful. I just found the timing of when this new member joined interesting given almost all of their posts defend DVCM. The reason I found the timing interesting was, I would understand someone who was upset about losing points joining in the last week to complain, but it seemed strange for someone to join the boards in the last week just to defend DVCM so vigorously.
It seemed even more interesting when they replied to one of my posts and defended DVCM by saying "Wait and see is not a response" when that is exactly what DVCM is doing for everything else. However, I overreacted and should not have made a snarky comment about them posting smart, honest, trained and dedicated professionals. The ETA about them being a new member was also inappropriate. Again I apologize.

I think I need to take a self imposed two week time out from these boards.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

I apologize for not being more respectful. I just found the timing of when this new member joined interesting given almost all of their posts defend DVCM. The reason I found the timing interesting was, I would understand someone who was upset about losing points joining in the last week to complain, but it seemed strange for someone to join the boards in the last week just to defend DVCM so vigorously.
It seemed even more interesting when they replied to one of my posts and defended DVCM by saying "Wait and see is not a response" when that is exactly what DVCM is doing for everything else. However, I overreacted and should not have made a snarky comment about them posting smart, honest, trained and dedicated professionals. The ETA about them being a new member was also inappropriate. Again I apologize.

I think I need to take a self imposed two week time out from these boards.

I agree a time out from these boards might be a good thing to do for a lot of us here on the Disboards. I usually enjoying this site very much but for the past month it seems that the only thing being talked about is CV-19. I KNOW its at the forefront of most peoples minds and a huge issue and worry for all but we already hear about 24/7 on the major news networks. It would be nice not to have to hear it here too, especially when none of us know for certain what is or what will be, not even the experts know.

I hope DVCM is able to arrive at an answer that will be fair to all members. I hope you all have a good day!

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

I am not a Diseny rep and you are confusing other and different things as well.

First, that making a decision about facts known at the time of the decision is odd or unusual. In fact that is the way business is run. Nobody can buy equipment, set prices or project demand after the fact. This leads me to suspect you don't have a business background.

Second is your reaction that anyone who makes a decision you don't like or that you don't agree with means the decision maker had to be corrupt or dishonest or without integrity or without knowing facts. I am retired and in my entire life from the US Army to now I have met few people in a decision making role who were any of those things; yet I met and worked with so many decision makes I would not attempt to guess at the number.

Reacting to changes circumstances and customer feedback only reflects well on the people who made the decision (limited to disney here). I disagree with your time line and your assessment of what the decision makers knew or their motives.

Naturally I do not expect you give a response to my questions since answering questions requires thought and (of course) will display your solution and give people a chance to weigh in on it.

Does "waiting to see how this would all play out" mean that having done what did now would still be a mistake? Again the question is obvious. If Disney can't reopen until Dec 1, 2020 does that mean their doing something prior to that was a mistake? Do you not see what would be involved for the entire country if it is not able to be open prior to Dec 1? What is your vision of being forced to stay home till then, of business all forced closed, of most of the country being unemployed, and millions dead?

Curious now who you are? A DVC rep who signed up on the boards a little over a week ago?

It was a decision they made immediately without waiting to see how this would all play out. They then reversed the decision - somewhere around a week later? Then when owners complained that some owners already had their points returned and it wasn't fair to not receive the same they reversed the decision again. That's pretty much knee jerk reactions.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Amazing to me how people cut and paste phrases out of context to try and justify opinions based on....apparently nothing. People are entitled to their opinions. People are not entitled to disparage and attack others based on their opinions and particularly not when the opinions are based upon something they have absolutely no knowledge or based on removing context entirely.

I think it is important to read the entire policy to keep it all in context. The first paragraph states it applies to reservations during closure and will be canceled by MS.

It then explains what will happen to those points being canceled weekly by MS. So, it is implied that the arrival date would be ones to be part of the closure.

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Please remember that all new members are welcome here on the Dis and any opinions shared, regardless of when someone joined, need to be valued and respected.