What should be cut first?

[jodifla]

First items to cut:
1. Art. (your kids can learn this at home)
2. Music (parents can pay for private lessons)
3. P.E. (Get your kid away from the TV, and send them outside)
4. Special Education. (These kids need to be in a special school, not GP)
5. Cheerleading and Band. (Parents can pay for this)
6. Sports (Parents can pay for this)
7. Board of Education (We don't need multiply members to do this job)
8. Administration (Always fat here)
9. Pre-Kindegarden
10.Para professionals
11. Change to 4 days per week, increase school hours. (saves thousands on transportation, and building use.
12. Field trips.
13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

Could go on.

Well, so much for a well-rounded education. And too bad about those special needs kids, huh?

 

[DizBelle]

Have you not heard about IDEA?

Forget about what the law is. Perhaps what Rainwater was suggesting was that maybe this law shouldn't exist.

Rainwater was kind of harsh but the fact is that there isn't enough money for every student to have their own teacher or program. And it seems that more and more students are getting one-on-one education from public funds. It's going to collapse at some point and everyone is going to suffer.

Should public school (paid for by the public) be "for the masses" and anything "special" be paid for by the parents?

Special = needs extra help OR high achieving

 

[jodifla]

Forget about what the law is. Perhaps what Rainwater was suggesting was that maybe this law shouldn't exist.

Rainwater was kind of harsh but the fact is that there isn't enough money for every student to have their own teacher or program. And it seems that more and more students are getting one-on-one education from public funds. It's going to collapse at some point and everyone is going to suffer.

Should public school (paid for by the public) be "for the masses" and anything "special" be paid for by the parents?

Special = needs extra help OR high achieving

You know why IDEA exists? Because of comments like this, and Rainwater's.

The truth is, most parents of kids with special needs of all kinds are spending thousands and thousands of dollars a year on different therapies above and beyond what schools offer.

Schools are charged with offering a free and appropriate education to ALL children. Most accommodations can are made are actually pretty minor in the grand scheme of things....particularly when you factor in that if you DON'T work with kids and get them to succeed, society pays a heavy cost when they get older.

Pay a little now, or pay a lot later.

 

[DizBelle]

You know why IDEA exists? Because of comments like this, and Rainwater's.

The truth is, most parents of kids with special needs of all kinds are spending thousands and thousands of dollars a year on different therapies above and beyond what schools offer.

Schools are charged with offering a free and appropriate education to ALL children. Most accommodations can are made are actually pretty minor in the grand scheme of things....particularly when you factor in that if you DON'T work with kids and get them to succeed, society pays a heavy cost when they get older.

Pay a little now, or pay a lot later.

I get it. But something's got to give or there will be no education for anyone.

 

[Disneyrsh]

.

 

[golfgal]

You have completely lost credibility with me here. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of how things work in the private sector. The above statements are completely mind-boggling.

FTR, I love and support our teachers and staff in my children's school. I volunteer AT LEAST 2-3 hours in the classroom every single week. I work in the classroom WITH the children most of the time and sometimes help with administrative stuff like making copies etc. I also the Art Docent for my DD's class which puts me in the classroom another 2 hours per month. I am also on the PTA Board. We raise a couple hundred thousand dollars for the school per year.


And the reason our family can afford for me to spend my time doing this is b/c my DH works an average of 60 hours per week as a Certified Public Accountant YEAR ROUND. Yes, right now is busy season and he's getting home at around midnight SEVEN DAYS PER WEEK. Other parents at our school work just as hard and thus the fundraising success. Not surprisingly, the staff turnover at our school is pretty low. They benefit greatly from the private sector.

Keep reading---sarcasm is very hard to portray but quite honestly, these are the same comments people are making about teachers, I was just putting the shoe on the other foot.

 

[daughtersrus]

I get it. But something's got to give or there will be no education for anyone.

So why not require all parents to pay for the education of their children? Why is it that you're suggesting that parents of special needs parents pay while the public pays for the education of the regular ed students?

 

[FoundMyPrince]

Who's going to pay for that?

Anyone getting the troll vibe?

C'mon...a troll? They do have 11 posts.

 

[MM27]

They also have planning time built into the school day for lesson plans and grading papers and if they were using their time wisely should get much of the work done. A minimum of an hour a day at all levels.
I use my time wisely, thank you. I also take my job very seriously and put a lot of effort and time into what I plan for my students. If you don't know what goes into planning and everything else teachers do, it's really not fair to make that assumption. And no, subbing is NOT the same as having your own classroom.

In my school we get one 40 minute prep per day. That time is often taken for meetings though. When I put in a referral for a student, they often schedule those meetings during preps so they don't have to get a sub for me. Most of them last between 30 and 40 minutes. Granted they are not every day, but they can have us do work related (not planning) things on our preps. On other days I use that time to pee, because we don't have the luxary of going when we need to, making copies for the kid that lost their math book for the 4th time this year, calling parents and yes grading and planning.


My own kids tell me that teachers are goofing around on FB and other sites (heard once about bidding on Ebay during class).
Perhaps if your kids are telling you this, you take it up with the principal at their school. It certainly doesn't mean all or most teachers do this. I don't use my computer for anything at school except to check my school email, which we are required to do several times a day.

In our district teachers do very little extra that they don't get extra pay for. If they show up for fun night/ school carnival it's because they want to not that they have to. Parents/volunteers chaperone dances, do concessions at sports events. If they sponsor a club or coach a sports team they get a percentage of their salary (Football coach 10%, senior class sponsor 3%) It is in their contract to do conferences at specific times/dates or you can meet a teacher during THEIR plan time or just before or just after school. Teachers must be at school 15 min before start time and stay 15 afterwards unless coaching.
Their plan time? Is that the time that they should be working on their plans and grading things? Maybe that's why they are mismanaging their time. Because parents keep taking it.
As far as continuing eduation for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.
I would have loved to do grad school in the summer. Most good colleges do not offer all courses needed in the summer though.

My comments are in red

Is it written in your contract that you are not to do any work outside of your building hours withput additonal compensatiom? If it isn't then IMHO it is liken to a salaried position. They pay you X to deliver Y without any additional compensation for the amount of time it takes to do the job well.
dsny1mom

I work with some people that bring NOTHING home to do. Does it mean they manage their time better than me? No, it means that they sit and grade and sit and plan while the kids are doing busy work. Does that make them a better teacher? I don't have kids, but I would not want my child in a classroom where the teacher did that.

 

[HsvTeacher]

I work with some people that bring NOTHING home to do. Does it mean they manage their time better than me? No, it means that they sit and grade and sit and plan while the kids are doing busy work. Does that make them a better teacher? I don't have kids, but I would not want my child in a classroom where the teacher did that.

I can only imagine what my fellow teachers must think about me. I rarely take school work home with me, and I feel like I manage my time very carefully. I go in earlier than expected every morning and use every free minute without students (planning time) to work on lesson plans, grading, and other paperwork. (I have a system that works very well for me. On Mondays, I plan for language arts, Tuesdays are for Math, etc.) I have also been known to grade papers while I'm watching my students during lunch, since we don't get a lunch break.

A lot of the teachers I know spend way too much time in the hallways and office chatting and gossiping. By avoiding that, I stay out of all the drama and get my work finished.

I'm not saying you do or don't do any of the things listed above, but I just wanted to throw that out there as another reason why teachers you know might not take work home with them.

 

[MM27]

I can only imagine what my fellow teachers must think about me. I rarely take school work home with me, and I feel like I manage my time very carefully. I go in earlier than expected every morning and use every free minute without students (planning time) to work on lesson plans, grading, and other paperwork. (I have a system that works very well for me. On Mondays, I plan for language arts, Tuesdays are for Math, etc.) I have also been known to grade papers while I'm watching my students during lunch, since we don't get a lunch break.

A lot of the teachers I know spend way too much time in the hallways and office chatting and gossiping. By avoiding that, I stay out of all the drama and get my work finished.

I'm not saying you do or don't do any of the things listed above, but I just wanted to throw that out there as another reason why teachers you know might not take work home with them.

No, I'm talking about teachers that really sit at their desk all day and do their paperwork. There are a few of them in my school that do that. They arrive at the exact minute we need to sign in and leave at the earliest possible time with just a purse. Every time you walk by their classrooms they are at their desks.

It's funny because our Superintendent came to my school the other day to do some observations. One of the girls (see above) was so nervous that he was going to come to her room. She asked so many questions at our faculty meeting when we were told he was coming and another teacher got annoyed with her and said, "If you do your job you shouldn't have to worry if he comes to your room" We all looked at one another because we know she doesn't do her job. We call her a FOTP (friend of the principal) That's why she still has a job

 

[dsny1mom]

Do you work in all of these elementaries? How would you know the building is void of all teachers within 20 minutes of school letting out.

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. I have taught in public and private schools, on different sides of the country and have subbed in multiple districts. I have NEVER seen a school, any school, where every teacher is gone within 20 minutes of school ending. Heck, even as a sub I tend to be there more than 20 minutes after school ends (I always like to clean up the room before I leave, plus I'm a talker )

In fact, I can 100% say that in every school I have ever taught at or subbed in, there is more than 1 teacher that is there beyond the contracted time. It's usually first year teachers or special ed teachers, but there's always at least one, usually more.

I did not work in the elementary school I speak of but I live close enough to it to see the parking lot from my home. Combined my children attended school there for 9 years. I volunteers in every capacity possible and had two GS troops that met there after school once a week for 5 years, so yes I know the comings and goings of the staff at that school. Heck the music teacher from that school gave my children piano lessons for 8 years and she was at my front door once a week by 3:30 each and every week.

You can doubt that it's true all you'd like. You'd be wrong but doubt away.

dsny1mom

 

[dsny1mom]

I'm not saying this isn't the way it is done where you are, but do you understand that this is not the norm??? I arrive at work no later than 7:25, and have kids waiting on me. I leave no earlier than 3:25. We have to clock in and out, so there is no cutting out early. I don't get a lunch break-I eat with students. I get one 50 min planning pd a day, not 2 hours. I work an extra 3 hours after school once a term for open house. I work ballgames with no compensation. I'm not moaning and groaning about my job, I stated that I love it. I hate when people are misinformed, and I get really irritated when it is referred to as a part-time job!

I'm not misinformed about the schools in my area. I also have never said nor implied that teaching is a part time job.

dsny1mom

 

[dsny1mom]

salaried[/I] profession with these restrictions?

There is a difference between salaried and contract. I'm not sure why so many people have difficulty in seeing that.

No offense but I know of no one that would consider going into work on a Sat. a luxury.

SEVERAL salaried professionals that have restricted vacation times and are not allowed to come in late and make up the time elsewhere in the week would be a retail manager, district manager and regional manager.

dsny1mom

 

[mumom95]

I did not work in the elementary school I speak of but I live close enough to it to see the parking lot from my home. Combined my children attended school there for 9 years. I volunteers in every capacity possible and had two GS troops that met there after school once a week for 5 years, so yes I know the comings and goings of the staff at that school. Heck the music teacher from that school gave my children piano lessons for 8 years and she was at my front door once a week by 3:30 each and every week.

You can doubt that it's true all you'd like. You'd be wrong but doubt away.

dsny1mom

I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong, I'm fairly positive you're just not telling the truth.

And I have a feeling most of the people on the DIS boards would agree with me, that there is no way possible at that school every teacher leaves 20 minutes before their contracted time at the end of the day, every day, for 9 years.

 

[dsny1mom]

Yes, we know that teachers have good work schedules; we're not arguing that. What we ARE arguing is the attitude -- the very pervasive attitude -- that teachers don't actually do a whole lot, and that they are highly compensated for thier work.

Apparently at least one teacher posting on this thread doesn't think teacher's schedules are very good. That poster seems dissapointed that they can't make up time on Sat. and can only take vacations in summer months and during Spring and Winter breaks.

I do not feel that teachers don't work a whole lot. Where I have a problem is with the teachers that can't fit all the work into their work day that feel they should not have to take work home or stay late or go in early. Teachers need to do whatever it take to get the job done, just like every other professional out there.

As for pay. In my area teachers are compensated fairly, if not well, for their jobs. I have not attempted to speak for any area other than the one I live in.

dsny1mom

 

[DizBelle]

So why not require all parents to pay for the education of their children? Why is it that you're suggesting that parents of special needs parents pay while the public pays for the education of the regular ed students?

In case you didn't realize, right now, EVERYONE (parents and non-parents) pay for the education of all children.

No. I'm suggesting that maybe the public pays for set level and anything extra should be paid for by those that require/want it. Everyone gets what everyone pays for. But those that need/want more should maybe pay for it on their own.

I don't know what the answer is but it seems like we're headed for an implosion of the education system if we keep going the way we are. It seems like fewer and fewer are getting more and more of the education dollars and that is not going to benefit society as a whole.

 

[dsny1mom]

I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong, I'm fairly positive you're just not telling the truth.

And I have a feeling most of the people on the DIS boards would agree with me, that there is no way possible at that school every teacher leaves 20 minutes before their contracted time at the end of the day, every day, for 9 years.

I'm sure there have been occassions when a teacher has been in the school after 3:30. In fact I even recall while entering the building for a GS meeting (between 3:30 and 3:45) several teachers walking out talking about who was bringing what dish to school the next day for their weekly pot luck they had. I said for the most part the only cars in our elementary school parking lot after 3:30 have been the principals and his secy.

Call me a liar all you want. I know what I saw and still see. I guess the music teacher at my front door at 3:30 once a week for 8 years was a figment of my imagination too.

dsny1mom

 

[daughtersrus]

No offense but I know of no one that would consider going into work on a Sat. a luxury.

SEVERAL salaried professionals that have restricted vacation times and are not allowed to come in late and make up the time elsewhere in the week would be a retail manager, district manager and regional manager.

dsny1mom

It is a luxury if you are able to take another day off if you choose and make that time up on Saturday.

What time off are retail, district and regional managers required to take off? I know many managers that choose when they take their time off. Teachers are not able to do that.

Again, they are contracted, not salaried employees.

 

[daughtersrus]

In case you didn't realize, right now, EVERYONE (parents and non-parents) pay for the education of all children.

No. I'm suggesting that maybe the public pays for set level and anything extra should be paid for by those that require/want it. Everyone gets what everyone pays for. But those that need/want more should maybe pay for it on their own.

I don't know what the answer is but it seems like we're headed for an implosion of the education system if we keep going the way we are. It seems like fewer and fewer are getting more and more of the education dollars and that is not going to benefit society as a whole.

I understand how education is funded now but the suggestion was that parents of special needs children should have to pay for the education while the parents of regular education students would not.
Are you suggesting vouchers where parents are allotted a specific amount of money and if it costs more than that to educate their child, they would have to pay the difference?