What should be cut first?

[golfgal]

The hour before students arrive and the hour after they leave gives teachers 10 hours a week. If that isn't enough time then homework for the teacher is necessary.

Yes. Unions needs to go. All of them. I would LOVE to see any savings from cutting out the the protectors of the poor performers go to the schools.

dsny1mom

Ok, so that is enough time to prepare for one lesson, what about the other 6 periods during the day? Also, you are assuming that a teacher never has to talk to parents, have conferences with parents, attend IEP meetings, etc. during that time before and after school--oh and don't forget the kids that come in early or stay late for help. I know of NO other profession where people have to bring work home DAILY--and HOURS of work on top of that. I STRONGLY suggest you spend a week at your child's school shadowing his/her teacher to get an idea of what a teacher REALLY does all day since you really don't have a clue.

I couldn't agree more. But when EVERY classroom has three PCs and the library has 10 and there are two computer "labs" with 30 PCs in each lab . . . it's great that a school has those resources, but when every elementary school has the same set-up, that's a lot of computers!!


I can understand coat hooks and reasonable furniture. But does every classroom in every school need metal wall lockers? Again, it's nice to have, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Yes, schools NEED metal lockers. If all the kids hang their coats, etc. on hooks, lice spread easier

 

[daughtersrus]

The elementary school I gave as an example has approx 500 students. There are fewer than 30 kids that take the bus to school at that school. Most children either walk to and from school or are driven in a car.

You make it sound like teachers have the worst of all schedules when in fact they have one of, if not the best. IMHO.

Is it written in your contract that you are not to do any work outside of your building hours withput additonal compensatiom? If it isn't then IMHO it is liken to a salaried position. They pay you X to deliver Y without any additional compensation for the amount of time it takes to do the job well.

dsny1mom

You assume that what happens at your school is the norm. As I said, our local school has over 800 students. About 50% take a bus, 40% are picked up in cars and 10% walk. How would one person oversee all of these students going to the proper location and getting on the proper bus while making sure that the proper children are in the car pickup line and safe while waiting to be picked up.

There are over 18,000 students in 20 schools in our district that each have one principal.

You may think that teacher has the best schedule but keep in mind that they do not have the luxury of coming in on Saturday to make up for leaving early or not coming in another day. They do not get to choose when they have time off. Can you name one other salaried profession with these restrictions?

There is a difference between salaried and contract. I'm not sure why so many people have difficulty in seeing that.

 

[mumom95]

Elementary starts at 9:10 and gets out at 3:10. The teachers arrive by
8:10 and are expected to stay until 4:10 but the building is void of teachers by 3:30 at the latest. Teachers get a 30 min lunch break. So they are actually in the building for 7.5 hours. When you deducted the 30 min lunch break they have a 7 hour day.

dsny1mom

Do you work in all of these elementaries? How would you know the building is void of all teachers within 20 minutes of school letting out.

I HIGHLY doubt this is true. I have taught in public and private schools, on different sides of the country and have subbed in multiple districts. I have NEVER seen a school, any school, where every teacher is gone within 20 minutes of school ending. Heck, even as a sub I tend to be there more than 20 minutes after school ends (I always like to clean up the room before I leave, plus I'm a talker )

In fact, I can 100% say that in every school I have ever taught at or subbed in, there is more than 1 teacher that is there beyond the contracted time. It's usually first year teachers or special ed teachers, but there's always at least one, usually more.

 

[golfgal]

The elementary school I gave as an example has approx 500 students. There are fewer than 30 kids that take the bus to school at that school. Most children either walk to and from school or are driven in a car.

You make it sound like teachers have the worst of all schedules when in fact they have one of, if not the best. IMHO.

Is it written in your contract that you are not to do any work outside of your building hours withput additonal compensatiom? If it isn't then IMHO it is liken to a salaried position. They pay you X to deliver Y without any additional compensation for the amount of time it takes to do the job well.

dsny1mom

Do you have a copy of their contract? Even if you don't, so what if they have it in their contract that they are not to do bus duty without compensation, they are teachers, not hall monitors and quite honestly, it is silly to pay a teacher's pay to have them monitor bus duty when you can pay an aid to do the same job. Would you want to pay an accountant to file all the paperwork or pay a doctor to transcribe notes, I think not. It isn't an efficient use of time or money to do so.

Also, I have a contract and yes, it very clearly states what is expected of me--I am not a teacher though. I would never be asked to answer phones in the office or sort mail, it isn't in my contract nor would it be efficient use of my time.

 

[FoundMyPrince]

Yes, schools NEED metal lockers. If all the kids hang their coats, etc. on hooks, lice spread easier

Gosh, my kids are so deprived. They don't have the lockers they NEED.

 

[luvsJack]

I can only speak to the schools in our area. When my children were in elementary school the principal did the bus duty, not the teachers. Teachers in our area don't work at sporting events, unless they have a stipend and are on the coaching staff. Fall festivals, PTA meetings, etc aren't places you find teachers here, these are all parent driven and run.

Many professionals take work home, stay late, go in early and work 6 days a week. They do it because they are dedicated and understand that jobs are no longer 9-5 40 hour a week gigs.

If you are a teacher that goes the extra mile and does whatever it takes to get the job done and doesn't feel as if you should be compensated additionally for all you do, then I applaud you.

I agree most other professionals aren't paying for their own office supplies. However they do spend OOP to on their employees more often than you may think.

dsny1mom

Again, the key here is that there is no one answer for all school districts or even all schools within a district.

Our school day is 7:45-3:20 4 days a week and 7:45-1:20 one day a week, these are the student's hours. The teachers are required to arrive no later than 7:20 and stay until 4:00 every day, they do not get a lunch hour as they are required to eat with the students and time to meet with parents would have to be before 7:20 or after 4:00 because they have to be available to early arriving students in the a.m. and for meetings and such until 4:00. They are required to sign up to work the gate at football and basketball games, this is also true at the high school along with the baseball games, track, soccer and softball games (the administration stresses how much money these sporting events bring in and that each classroom benefits from that money). They are present at every PTO meeting, present at Family night each 9 weeks and at all fund raisers such as dances, Spring and Fall festivals. And many of them go to seminars, conferences and other training opportunities in June and July (some are required), so that pretty much does away with the summer break but yet their salary is figured on the school year. All this is in addition to papers to grade, lesson plans to write, etc. in their "spare" time.

Now, you want to compare that to other professionals. I have a family member who is a CPA. Right now she is working 10 hour days and is bringing work home. But that is only true from January-April 15. She does other work during the rest of the year, but NONE of it requires her to bring home work or to work over 40 hours (during the summer she doesn't even work 40 hours). She spends no money on office supplies or anything else for her office. And she makes over $100,000 per year. So comparing other professionals to a teacher who makes around $40,000 a year is not exactly comparing apples to apples.

I work at a community college. We are all salaried employees and it is in my contract that I agree to work whatever hours necessary during registration 3 times a year. Even with that, my supervisor keeps up with all the hours I work over and I am given comp time for those hours, as is everyone else including all those up the ladder from me. No one from the President down to the last hired secretary buys office supplies. Our instructors work only the hours they are contracted to, are NEVER asked to work over and are NEVER expected to purchase anything. And they are paid quite a bit more than elementary and high school teachers. So again, not the same.

Another difference is that many professionals that dole things out of their own pocket because they choose to; but business would probably continue without whatever they spend. Teachers buy things because they cannot do their job if they don't.

Teachers do not have the worst work schedule, in many ways it is great especially if they have young children. The problem is not the schedule so much as it is the way they are paid. If the salary is figured on 8 hours(time in the classroom) x 180 days (length of the school year), then they are not being compensated for the total time they work. If their salary is expected to cover hours worked then they certainly should be paid more. And, you know, salary is supposed to cover the amount of time that a person works.

 

[FoundMyPrince]

More districts need to go back to core budgeting- start with what kids have to have in order to learn and move outwards from there.

And you think a district will be able to agree on what kids "have to have in order to learn"? I just learned my kids NEED lockers...didn't know that. We were told at our school board meeting in October that the school NEEDED an Astro Turf football field - and it will be completed in April (at the cost of $780,000). After all, the new football field can be used by the new soccer team and the band can practice even when the field is wet and not tear up the field.

BTW: our school district notified parents last week that there will probably be no summer school this year due to state budget cuts and non-certified staff will not receive a raise. Personally I think some schools are spoiled (mine included) and don't have a clue what is actually NEEDED to learn; while others are struggling to buy textbooks or basic supplies for teachers (pens/pencils/paper). It's a broken system however you look at it. There is no way to state across the board what is needed at one school and not at another. ie: Is bussing students necessary where you live? Perhaps not if you have sidewalks, no highways, neighborhood schools, or other forms of public transportation etc. But, in the "middle-of-nowhere" fly-over states it is necessary.

 

[luvsJack]

I couldn't agree more. But when EVERY classroom has three PCs and the library has 10 and there are two computer "labs" with 30 PCs in each lab . . . it's great that a school has those resources, but when every elementary school has the same set-up, that's a lot of computers!!


I can understand coat hooks and reasonable furniture. But does every classroom in every school need metal wall lockers? Again, it's nice to have, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I can only speak for our school, but we do have a couple of computers in each classroom and a computer lab as well as a couple in the library. Students still do not get enough computer time to complete assignments. This can be a problem as not all have computers at home. It does seem like a lot of computers but I would hate to see us have to do away with any.

When I worked with a second grade teacher, she had a family member come in and build cubbies in her classroom. It was great for each student to have their own place to put things, but then she started having a problem with stealing. The next year she had the family member come in and put doors with locks on each cubbie and that solved the problem. We don't have metal lockers in each classroom but I can see the need for them.

 

[golfgal]

And you think a district will be able to agree on what kids "have to have in order to learn"? I just learned my kids NEED lockers...didn't know that. We were told at our school board meeting in October that the school NEEDED an Astro Turf football field - and it will be completed in April (at the cost of $780,000). After all, the new football field can be used by the new soccer team and the band can practice even when the field is wet and not tear up the field.

BTW: our school district notified parents last week that there will probably be no summer school this year due to state budget cuts and non-certified staff will not receive a raise. Personally I think some schools are spoiled (mine included) and don't have a clue what is actually NEEDED to learn; while others are struggling to buy textbooks or basic supplies for teachers (pens/pencils/paper). It's a broken system however you look at it. There is no way to state across the board what is needed at one school and not at another. ie: Is bussing students necessary where you live? Perhaps not if you have sidewalks, no highways, neighborhood schools, or other forms of public transportation etc. But, in the "middle-of-nowhere" fly-over states it is necessary.

Capital funds can not be used for operating funds. They can't take the astroturf dollars and use it to buy text books, period. Our district is putting astroturf on the football fields of all the high schools, why, it is LESS EXPENSIVE in the long run.

I don't think you need busing-you can drive your kids. Now I don't really believe that but I am trying to prove a point, what YOU think schools need isn't going to be what other people think schools need. I happen to think our school DOES need astroturf having spent the last 4 years with battles over the football field being torn up and the football team, soccer teams, lacrosse teams and the marching band not being able to use the field and the money spent fixing the field would be better spent elsewhere.

Our kids never had lockers in elementary school and there were lice breakouts every single year. Once they installed metal lockers, they haven't had a break out since. I happen to think they need them.

 

[golfgal]

I can only speak for our school, but we do have a couple of computers in each classroom and a computer lab as well as a couple in the library. Students still do not get enough computer time to complete assignments. This can be a problem as not all have computers at home. It does seem like a lot of computers but I would hate to see us have to do away with any.

When I worked with a second grade teacher, she had a family member come in and build cubbies in her classroom. It was great for each student to have their own place to put things, but then she started having a problem with stealing. The next year she had the family member come in and put doors with locks on each cubbie and that solved the problem. We don't have metal lockers in each classroom but I can see the need for them.

I am sure that everyone would be flaberghasted at the computers in the classrooms and the 4 computer labs all with brand new computers in our school but guess what, I will support their right to buy all of that equipment as often as needed because you can't even work at McDonalds these days without using a computer. Kids need a lot more then pencils and paper to compete in the world these days. Oh, and our district even runs activity buses for those kids that need to stay after school to use the computers because they don't have one at home. Should we do away with that. The school saves MILLIONS by doing this because all the textbooks are available online. THey have a couple classroom sets and then kids can access them at home or from the computer labs to do homework. The schools spend a lot of time weighing the costs of these things and don't make the decisions willy nilly.

We were helping parents sign up for online access to the school grade book and a HUGE portion of the parents had no idea how to even start--and by start take the mouse and click on the icon start. Kids just can't get by with this any more, they NEED computers. Tell me ONE job that doesn't use a computer today.

 

[WDWMom]

I haven't read this whole thread because I don't have the time right now but I want to add my 2 cents.

Around here if you look at the budget the most money goes towards teacher salary and benefits. Teachers have the Cadillac of health insurance. Several years ago they were complaining when their Rx copay went from $2 to $5. They were actually going to vote down the contract because of it. I don't know anyone in the real world who has $5 Rx copay let alone $2. Teachers need to get a grip on reality and what's going on with the real world and adjust like the rest of us. School districts could safe tons of money by offering less expensive health insurance.

Secondly, I live in a small not quite rural district (small town and rural townships make up our district). Our Superintendent get his magazine subscriptions paid for, car, insurance and mileage all paid, every lunch his eats out along with breakfast every Sat. with FORMER school board members. One of my best friends is the accounts payable clerk for our district and she has told us several times the things she pays for him. He also makes over $130,000 (salary) which was recently in the newspaper along with thousand in benefits. I certainly haven't heard anything about him taking a salary cut while company after company in the area are letting people go.

We also have some fluff classes at the high school that could go. Dance is one. About 100 kids benefit but it costs quite a bit to run the classes. We have about 1800 kids in the HS. Dance does not count towards any grad requirement or PE req.

Of course, my kids would say let's get rid of math and it would save the district mega dollars

 

[WDWMom]

Again, the key here is that there is no one answer for all school districts or even all schools within a district.

Our school day is 7:45-3:20 4 days a week and 7:45-1:20 one day a week, these are the student's hours. The teachers are required to arrive no later than 7:20 and stay until 4:00 every day, they do not get a lunch hour as they are required to eat with the students and time to meet with parents would have to be before 7:20 or after 4:00 because they have to be available to early arriving students in the a.m. and for meetings and such until 4:00. They are required to sign up to work the gate at football and basketball games, this is also true at the high school along with the baseball games, track, soccer and softball games (the administration stresses how much money these sporting events bring in and that each classroom benefits from that money). They are present at every PTO meeting, present at Family night each 9 weeks and at all fund raisers such as dances, Spring and Fall festivals. And many of them go to seminars, conferences and other training opportunities in June and July (some are required), so that pretty much does away with the summer break but yet their salary is figured on the school year. All this is in addition to papers to grade, lesson plans to write, etc. in their "spare" time.


Teachers do not have the worst work schedule, in many ways it is great especially if they have young children. The problem is not the schedule so much as it is the way they are paid. If the salary is figured on 8 hours(time in the classroom) x 180 days (length of the school year), then they are not being compensated for the total time they work. If their salary is expected to cover hours worked then they certainly should be paid more. And, you know, salary is supposed to cover the amount of time that a person works.

Not sure where you live, but around here teachers make exception money for only 9 months a year. Most starting teachers make over 30k. That's over $3333 a month for a first year teacher or over $20 an hour. They also have planning time built into the school day for lesson plans and grading papers and if they were using their time wisely should get much of the work done. A minimum of an hour a day at all levels. And so what if they have to bring work home or stay later. How many other professionals do that too??? I bet many. My DH owns his own business and works 9 hours a day outside the house. He then comes home and does AP/AR in the evenings along with quotes.

I have a teaching degree and have only used it for subbing. I have done many long term sub jobs from 2 weeks to a whole semester. I always made use of my time so I would not have to bring work home like grading papers and tests along with lesson plans. My own kids tell me that teachers are goofing around on FB and other sites (heard once about bidding on Ebay during class). While subbing I would grade tests while others were still testing and have most of them done by the end of the day (MS and HS). Same with homework. Do it in class together. Now papers are a different story and I appreciate that those take awhile to grade.

In our district teachers do very little extra that they don't get extra pay for. If they show up for fun night/ school carnival it's because they want to not that they have to. Parents/volunteers chaperone dances, do concessions at sports events. If they sponsor a club or coach a sports team they get a percentage of their salary (Football coach 10%, senior class sponsor 3%) It is in their contract to do conferences at specific times/dates or you can meet a teacher during THEIR plan time or just before or just after school. Teachers must be at school 15 min before start time and stay 15 afterwards unless coaching.

As far as continuing eduation for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.

 

[golfgal]

Not sure where you live, but around here teachers make exception money for only 9 months a year. Most starting teachers make over 30k. That's over $3333 a month for a first year teacher or over $20 an hour. They also have planning time built into the school day for lesson plans and grading papers and if they were using their time wisely should get much of the work done. A minimum of an hour a day at all levels. And so what if they have to bring work home or stay later. How many other professionals do that too??? I bet many. My DH owns his own business and works 9 hours a day outside the house. He then comes home and does AP/AR in the evenings along with quotes.

I have a teaching degree and have only used it for subbing. I have done many long term sub jobs from 2 weeks to a whole semester. I always made use of my time so I would not have to bring work home like grading papers and tests along with lesson plans. My own kids tell me that teachers are goofing around on FB and other sites (heard once about bidding on Ebay during class). While subbing I would grade tests while others were still testing and have most of them done by the end of the day (MS and HS). Same with homework. Do it in class together. Now papers are a different story and I appreciate that those take awhile to grade.

In our district teachers do very little extra that they don't get extra pay for. If they show up for fun night/ school carnival it's because they want to not that they have to. Parents/volunteers chaperone dances, do concessions at sports events. If they sponsor a club or coach a sports team they get a percentage of their salary (Football coach 10%, senior class sponsor 3%) It is in their contract to do conferences at specific times/dates or you can meet a teacher during THEIR plan time or just before or just after school. Teachers must be at school 15 min before start time and stay 15 afterwards unless coaching.

As far as continuing eduation for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.

You forgot about all the class prep work that you as a sub did not do. As for continuing ed, yes, a lot of professions require that but continuing ed is not the same as having to get a masters degree to keep your job on top of which, many, many companies PAY for their employees schooling where as school district do not. Teachers then have to get continuing ed on TOP of their masters classes in most cases. Around here $30K/year is considered poverty level and qualifies you for food stamps-teachers in our district start at $35K.

 

[crusoe2]

Not sure where you live, but around here teachers make exception money for only 9 months a year. Most starting teachers make over 30k. That's over $3333 a month for a first year teacher or over $20 an hour. They also have planning time built into the school day for lesson plans and grading papers and if they were using their time wisely should get much of the work done. A minimum of an hour a day at all levels. And so what if they have to bring work home or stay later. How many other professionals do that too??? I bet many. My DH owns his own business and works 9 hours a day outside the house. He then comes home and does AP/AR in the evenings along with quotes.

I have a teaching degree and have only used it for subbing. I have done many long term sub jobs from 2 weeks to a whole semester. I always made use of my time so I would not have to bring work home like grading papers and tests along with lesson plans. My own kids tell me that teachers are goofing around on FB and other sites (heard once about bidding on Ebay during class). While subbing I would grade tests while others were still testing and have most of them done by the end of the day (MS and HS). Same with homework. Do it in class together. Now papers are a different story and I appreciate that those take awhile to grade.

In our district teachers do very little extra that they don't get extra pay for. If they show up for fun night/ school carnival it's because they want to not that they have to. Parents/volunteers chaperone dances, do concessions at sports events. If they sponsor a club or coach a sports team they get a percentage of their salary (Football coach 10%, senior class sponsor 3%) It is in their contract to do conferences at specific times/dates or you can meet a teacher during THEIR plan time or just before or just after school. Teachers must be at school 15 min before start time and stay 15 afterwards unless coaching.

As far as continuing eduation for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.

I only have a couple minutes to post as I've got to get DS to the dentist (otherwise I wouldn't even be on here at this time of day). But I just have to point out something in this post that seems to be a common thread. You say that teachers are well paid for someone who works "only 9 months a year" and that they shouldn't have any problem taking work home with them. The point so many people have tried to make is that teachers do NOT work only 9 months a year and most of us are perfectly okay with taking work home. We're just really tired of people bashing us when they don't know what they're talking about. You say you have a teaching degree but you've only done long-term subbing. So you've never held a full-time teaching job? Let me tell you, I did the long-term subbing thing before I started teaching too. I can assure you it doesn't always (probably seldom) gives an accurate picture of what full-time teaching is like. And I can say that from experience because I have actually done both. A sub usually does not have to attend faculty meetings or serve on committees or help develop curriculum guides or do evaluations on coworkers or attend IEP meetings or do afterschool tutoring or stand out in the freezing cold or sweltering heat doing bus duty or .... well, maybe you get the idea.

I agree that there are bad teachers who waste time and don't do any real teaching. But most of us are not like that. You really shouldn't judge all teachers (or school systems) by the bad behavior or poor judgement of just a few. Nor should you assume that what works or is common in your area is the same everywhere.

 

[luvsJack]

Not sure where you live, but around here teachers make exception money for only 9 months a year. Most starting teachers make over 30k. That's over $3333 a month for a first year teacher or over $20 an hour. They also have planning time built into the school day for lesson plans and grading papers and if they were using their time wisely should get much of the work done. A minimum of an hour a day at all levels. And so what if they have to bring work home or stay later. How many other professionals do that too??? I bet many. My DH owns his own business and works 9 hours a day outside the house. He then comes home and does AP/AR in the evenings along with quotes.

I have a teaching degree and have only used it for subbing. I have done many long term sub jobs from 2 weeks to a whole semester. I always made use of my time so I would not have to bring work home like grading papers and tests along with lesson plans. My own kids tell me that teachers are goofing around on FB and other sites (heard once about bidding on Ebay during class). While subbing I would grade tests while others were still testing and have most of them done by the end of the day (MS and HS). Same with homework. Do it in class together. Now papers are a different story and I appreciate that those take awhile to grade.

In our district teachers do very little extra that they don't get extra pay for. If they show up for fun night/ school carnival it's because they want to not that they have to. Parents/volunteers chaperone dances, do concessions at sports events. If they sponsor a club or coach a sports team they get a percentage of their salary (Football coach 10%, senior class sponsor 3%) It is in their contract to do conferences at specific times/dates or you can meet a teacher during THEIR plan time or just before or just after school. Teachers must be at school 15 min before start time and stay 15 afterwards unless coaching.

As far as continuing eduation for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.

As I said before, situations vary. Our teachers do get a planning period, its equal to one class/subject time. So the amount of time depends on the grade. But, if a child has to be pulled for make up tests or tutoring its done during this time. They also have to use it for returning parent's calls. So its not just a matter of utilizing their time well.

I am aware that other professionals take work home, I am not debating that; but the amount of time teachers in some areas have to put in above taking work home is ridiculous.

Our teachers used to be paid by their choice, 12 months or 10 months; but I think it changed to only 12 months. It doesn't matter though. Their annual salary is figured on the months in school and they are required to go to meetings, seminars and to their own classroom during the other two months. So there is still an amount of time put in that they are not being paid for.

At both the ms my dd attends and at the hs she will attend the teachers are required to work ballgames, fund raisers and the like. As for dances and things of that nature, there has to be certified personnel on campus--so they divide out the number of events and the teachers sign up for the ones they can work over the year. Some things, like Fall festival and family night, require that all the teachers be present. PTO would only be PO if the teachers were not there and they are, again, all required to attend.

As for your last statement: As far as continuing education for teachers, they know that going into the profession. Just like nursing or many health professions except that teachers can fit it in while they have the summers off, not so easy for those in nursing who must work, possibly take care of a family and go to school on top of all that.

The "summers" off usually consists of 2 months here, June and July. That is also the time they have to ready their classrooms for the next year (many doing a lot of cleaning and painting), take college classes to further their degree and is their only vacation time as they do not get vacation days during the school year. Yes, they do know that going in; but its really not fair that just because they are paid a salary that they are not paid for it. (Not sure about other professions, but child care/preschool employees; if paid hourly, are paid for continuing ed hours)

Like I said, teaching is far from the worst work schedule a person can have but its not the piece of cake some want to believe it is. Too many people want to believe that teachers only work while the kids are in the classroom and that is far from the truth.

 

[golfgal]

I have to comment about the "only 9 months" our high school teachers are required to be in the building from 6:30 until 3:30 200 days/year--you do the math.

 

[luvsJack]

I only have a couple minutes to post as I've got to get DS to the dentist (otherwise I wouldn't even be on here at this time of day). But I just have to point out something in this post that seems to be a common thread. You say that teachers are well paid for someone who works "only 9 months a year" and that they shouldn't have any problem taking work home with them. The point so many people have tried to make is that teachers do NOT work only 9 months a year and most of us are perfectly okay with taking work home. We're just really tired of people bashing us when they don't know what they're talking about. You say you have a teaching degree but you've only done long-term subbing. So you've never held a full-time teaching job? Let me tell you, I did the long-term subbing thing before I started teaching too. I can assure you it doesn't always (probably seldom) gives an accurate picture of what full-time teaching is like. And I can say that from experience because I have actually done both. A sub usually does not have to attend faculty meetings or serve on committees or help develop curriculum guides or do evaluations on coworkers or attend IEP meetings or do afterschool tutoring or stand out in the freezing cold or sweltering heat doing bus duty or .... well, maybe you get the idea.

I agree that there are bad teachers who waste time and don't do any real teaching. But most of us are not like that. You really shouldn't judge all teachers (or school systems) by the bad behavior or poor judgement of just a few. Nor should you assume that what works or is common in your area is the same everywhere.

The point about long term subs is so true. Dd had a long term sub during second grade. She did none of the planning, the teacher was required to have it done prior (she was pregnant). Plus she was not required to do any of the "duties" that the classroom teacher would have done. The other teachers had to take up the slack. So she did have more time than the classroom teacher would have had. She even told me that she was having such a good time and was able to do a lot of extra things with the students because of all of this.

 

[sbell111]

Nothing should be cut. Find some other area of government to trim.

Why is the future of our country always at the top of the list for "cuts"?

How about guaranteed pensions for all members of congress, even if they only serve 1 year? Let's get rid of that nice little benefit, instead.

The Superintendent of schools for Dekalb County, in metro Atlanta, made $250,000 last year. 75% of the schools in Dekalb County failed to make adequate yearly progress.

I know where I would start cutting.

Members of Congress vest after five years of service, just like every other federal employee.

 

[golfgal]

The point about long term subs is so true. Dd had a long term sub during second grade. She did none of the planning, the teacher was required to have it done prior (she was pregnant). Plus she was not required to do any of the "duties" that the classroom teacher would have done. The other teachers had to take up the slack. So she did have more time than the classroom teacher would have had. She even told me that she was having such a good time and was able to do a lot of extra things with the students because of all of this.

Long term subbing is the BEST job, unless of course you have a class of kids that are behavior problems and swear at you and try to hit you or spit on you.

 

[luvsJack]

Long term subbing is the BEST job, unless of course you have a class of kids that are behavior problems and swear at you and try to hit you or spit on you.

This is so true. Sadly our teachers have to put up with these problems too; along with everything else.

Funny thing is, I start classes in June to get a teaching degree . I guess I am crazy, but I taught 4 year olds for years and worked as a teaching assistant before that and I really, really miss being in a classroom. I know all the bad things going in and still think its wrong; but just feel the calling for it and am prepared to accept it all. Just hoping that the economy will be seeing improvements by the time I am finished. Luckily I will be able to keep my present job through my time in school so if no teaching jobs are available locally, I won't be unemployed when I am finished.