What is "Upper" class to you?

[okeydokey]

It has been in his standard stump speech, and, list time I checked, can be found in numerous places throughout his website. He's certainly not shy about it.

I've listened to many of his speeches. I still don't ever remember hearing him say that a person who earns $37,500 is "rich". Maybe if you provided the link so that I could see it?

 

[alldiz]

We are in the 30,000 bracket.
Here 100,000 would be upper class.
Cost of living is alot cheaper here too.
We paid only 52,000 for a very large house.
Maybe if we made more our idea of rich would change.

Interesting. You make more than 1/2 of the value of your house.

I just squeaked into the top 5%....(150,000), I would have to make a lot more to make as much as my house is.
Of course your house is probably bigger than mine with a lg property.

Crazy the cost of living is sooooooo different in middle america, than around the edges.
Kerri

 

[Chicago526]

I've listened to many of his speeches. I still don't ever remember hearing him say that a person who earns $37,500 is "rich". Maybe if you provided the link so that I could see it?

Yeah, I've only heard him say rolling back the tax cuts for the top 1%, which I beleive is over $300k a year. If anyone has a valid link showing otherwise, I'd be very interested to see it.

 

[alldiz]

Yeah, I've only heard him say rolling back the tax cuts for the top 1%, which I beleive is over $300k a year. If anyone has a valid link showing otherwise, I'd be very interested to see it.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Wow....this is really shocking. I just squeaked intot the top 5%. I don't feel any wealthier knowing that though

Of course a family income of 150,000 on LI is really needed to live comfortably. Prices of everything is crazy high.

Maybe I'll move to "middle of nowhere" USA to feel "richer"

Truth is the more we make the more we spend....bigger house,,,,nicer cars...better vacations, fancier clothes....etc. It is all relative.
Kerri

Very true!

I feel your pain as far as the COL in NYC. We lived in Manhattan for quite some time before moving down to south Florida two years ago. We kept our UWS apartment for as long as could before selling it last year. The burden became too much, and my wife and I make a fairly decent living. The prospects of having a home down here and a place to crash in the city sounded great at first, but even with a nice income, I much prefer being able to sleep at night and not worrying about finances (that much) anymore.

 

[rayelias]

I've listened to many of his speeches. I still don't ever remember hearing him say that a person who earns $37,500 is "rich". Maybe if you provided the link so that I could see it?

Yeah, I've only heard him say rolling back the tax cuts for the top 1%, which I beleive is over $300k a year. If anyone has a valid link showing otherwise, I'd be very interested to see it.

That would change your vote?

 

[MemoryMakers2669]

I learned in a college class, that there are 6 levels of classes...socio economic ones.

There are the Lower and Upper of each Lower, Middle and Upper. It gave the salery amounts, but that has had to of changed by now.

But basically, the Lower Lower class is born into it and chances are near 100% that you will remain in that class for life.

The Upper Upper class is the same, but flip. They are born into it (old money), and will always remain in it for life.

They considered the Lower Upper class "new" money, like movie stars, politicians and such.

Middle class was divided by your job, whether blue or white collar.

 

[Chicago526]

That would change your vote?

I can only speak for myself, but probably not. There are a lot of other issues besides taxes that I like Obama on rather than McCain. I don't vote single issues. But what I do want is a debate on what the candidates actually say they plan to do once in office, not internet rumors and made up "facts". Again, if anyone has a valid link saying Obama is going to raise taxes on middle income Americans, I want to see it.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I voted for 500k per year. When we lived in Maryland where the COL was so very high that people who earned 100k to 150k a year considered themselves to be the working middle class. Most of the families in our neighborhood had a mortgage, two cars and both people worked.

I would find it interesting to see what people here on the disboard considered "middle class".

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Just curious, but why does she try to just live on SS? I understand wanting a modest life style, but SS is pretty dang modest! My MIL lives on SS out of nessecity and even with a paid for house and car, still needs us to help her out now and again (of course she never asks, my husband just knows when she needs extra money, so what do you know, she gets $200 in cash at christmas, or a $250 gift cert to Lowes so she can replace the dishwasher tha broke last month. Funny how that works... )

Believe me, I've asked her many time, even begged her to get out and spend some of that money, and she simply refuses to budge. She also feels that since she's been so lucky in life, she has an overwhelming desire to pass on a nice inheritance to my sister, myself and her grand-kids. We've told her to please enjoy herself, but it's something that she needs to do...don't ask me why. She was raised in an ultra conservative home, my grandparents (who obviously did very well for themselves and were far freer spenders than she is) taught her to never take anything for granted. She took that advice and dedicated herself to living a very frugal lifestyle. That said, she pays cash for everything she has, including her home and every car she buys (every 5 years, whether she needs it or not), and she'll occasionally dip into her trust fund when she has to, but outside of that, she's as tight as a guitar string and wears her frugality like a badge of honor.

 

[mjkacmom]

I am shocked at the number of people who think that $100K is upper class/rich. Seriously? Regardless of the whole cost of living/where you live argument - there are people (several?) who think a household income of $100K is RICH?

I guess that fact does point out different perspectives...

Where I live in NJ, $100,000 is the working middle class, and the bare minimum a household would need to get by.

 

[connorlevismom]

I think the idea of being "rich" or "upper class" is purely subjective. IMO, "rich" means being able to walk away from work right now and having enough money so that your kids and grandkids never have to work.

The truth of the matter, for the rest of us, is the annual household earnings of the top 5% Americans is in the neighborhood of only $150,000 and the top 2% of Americans start around $220,000. That means that 95% of all American families bring home less than $150K. Pretty striking, especially when you consider that so many people think that raising a family on a six figure salary is somehow unmanageable. IMO, if you're just squeaking by on $200K and can't make it in the neighborhood you live in, you're most certainly living beyond your means.

It is not that simple. You have to look at cost of living. You cannot just make the statement that if someone makes 200K and can't make it, they are living beyond their means. What about retirement, college, daycare and all the other costs that occur with kids? Here you would be rich if you made over 1 million, to me. Rich means that your money is working for you, not you are working for your money.

Believe me, I've asked her many time, even begged her to get out and spend some of that money, and she simply refuses to budge. She also feels that since she's been so lucky in life, she has an overwhelming desire to pass on a nice inheritance to my sister, myself and her grand-kids. We've told her to please enjoy herself, but it's something that she needs to do...don't ask me why. She was raised in an ultra conservative home, my grandparents (who obviously did very well for themselves and were far freer spenders than she is) taught her to never take anything for granted. She took that advice and dedicated herself to living a very frugal lifestyle. That said, she pays cash for everything she has, including her home and every car she buys (every 5 years, whether she needs it or not), and she'll occasionally dip into her trust fund when she has to, but outside of that, she's as tight as a guitar string and wears her frugality like a badge of honor.

So I think I might understand your thought process after reading this. You clearly are not going to have to worry about retirement and college for your kids if you mother is so rich and is going to leave you (and your sister) all her money. If I did not have to worry about those things, I would be a lot wealthier. Between DH and I we put over $1000 a month into our retirement savings, $350.00 a month for sons college and $1000 a month just for one child in daycare. That is $2350.00 a month that comes out of my check BEFORE I pay my mortgage, car payments, and monthly bills. Depending on where you live, it could be less and could be more. But you cannot judge someone as being rich or not without looking at their COL.
Kristine

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

It is not that simple. You have to look at cost of living. You cannot just make the statement that if someone makes 200K and can't make it, they are living beyond their means. What about retirement, college, daycare and all the other costs that occur with kids? Here you would be rich if you made over 1 million, to me. Rich means that your money is working for you, not you are working for your money.



So I think I might understand your thought process after reading this. You clearly are not going to have to worry about retirement and college for your kids if you mother is so rich and is going to leave you (and your sister) all her money. If I did not have to worry about those things, I would be a lot wealthier. Between DH and I we put over $1000 a month into our retirement savings, $350.00 a month for sons college and $1000 a month just for one child in daycare. That is $2350.00 a month that comes out of my check BEFORE I pay my mortgage, car payments, and monthly bills. Depending on where you live, it could be less and could be more. But you cannot judge someone as being rich or not without looking at their COL.
Kristine

I completely understand your take on the COL and I'm with you on those expenses 100%. As a father of 2 and as someone who is also saving for their retirement (I take zero for granted in this life, including inheritance), I pay them as well. I think the question is, are you trapped doing what you are doing or living where you are living? Could you work a job for a lower wage in an area with a much lower COL and come out further ahead of the game than you are right now? These are questions that everyone, who makes more than the overwhelming majority of Americans, has to answer for themselves. I understand that many Americans are upside down on their mortgages and it's a tough economy right now. However, telling a fellow American who makes around $50K, the average American household's income, that one can't make it on $200K (which is entirely possible depending on where you live) is tough to swallow for many people.

 

[undertheradar]

There is no straight forward answer to this question. Factoring in regional cost of living, average housing costs, realistic household spending, transportation scenarios, all would vary greatly. We have a decent 6 figure household income and are just making it. We do not live above our means and the housing costs here in Socal are insane. Our modest tri-level in Ohio was under $100,000, yet our modest ranch home here was well over $600,000. When we were renting, housing here ran us $2700. month for a 3 bedroom home. We had considered renting an apartment, but rents were $2400-2600 for 3 bedroom apartments. While our income is considered high by some, the cost of living removes any gain the higher income implies.

 

[NotUrsula]

Money is one thing, but social class is another entirely. I've known plenty of upper-class people in my lifetime who no longer had money, but were firmly upper-class in everything else about their lives.

Then there's the phenomenon of the lower-class person who wins the lottery; does that suddenly make him upper-class, or just wealthy? (In my book, just wealthy.)

 

[aprilgail2]

I see that nobody has picked Obama's definition of "the rich" yet (that he says he'll raise taxes on): $75,000 couple, $37,500 single

ROFLMAO- 37,500 for a single would mean you were living in some crappy studio apartment- its like poverty level!!!

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Rich is being able to live the lifestyle you want on true passive income (i.e investment earnings or rental income).

If you need to go to work, you aren't rich!

I agree! Which means I don't know any rich people.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

ROFLMAO- 37,500 for a single would mean you were living in some crappy studio apartment- its like poverty level!!!

I believe those numbers came from last month's issues of the Rush Limbaugh Letter and couldn't be further from the truth. You're certainly free to take corndog's good word for it, or you could do a little research to see that Obama's plan actually lowering taxes for the lower, middle and upper middle classes. He proposes funding the tax cuts by rolling back the debt laden Bush tax cuts for the top 1% earners, closing corporate loopholes, cracking down on international tax havens and increasing the dividend-and-capital-gains tax for the super wealthy.

 

[smartestnumber5]

ROFLMAO- 37,500 for a single would mean you were living in some crappy studio apartment- its like poverty level!!!

The poverty level for one person in the 48 contiguous states is $10,000 and it is not adjusted for COL. So a single making 37,500 is making 375% of the poverty level. (The poverty level for a family of four is $20,605--375% of that is $77268.) The median income for household in the U.S. is in the mid-40,000. So one individual making 37500 is actually doing quite well compared to the vast majority of American households. (That's probably because living in a crappy apartment or a crappy rented/mortgaged house is actually pretty normal for most Americans.)

But I agree that I don't think income taxes need to be raised on single individuals making $37,500 nor have I seen any indication that Obama plans to do so.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Wow....this is really shocking. I just squeaked intot the top 5%. I don't feel any wealthier knowing that though

Of course a family income of 150,000 on LI is really needed to live comfortably. Prices of everything is crazy high.

Maybe I'll move to "middle of nowhere" USA to feel "richer"

Truth is the more we make the more we spend....bigger house,,,,nicer cars...better vacations, fancier clothes....etc. It is all relative.
Kerri

Yes in addition to the COL differences I think the spending more as one makes more is definitely part of what makes people have different opinions on this topic. In my own family (in an average COL area--average household income = $33,000, $38,000 per family) my cousin and his wife and my parents would describe themselves as middle class and even as in some ways struggling. They can't just go on vacation any time they want. My parents are sacrificing a lot to put my brother through a regional state college where he gets financial aid; for awhile, my cousin and his wife were sacrificing a lot to put their two year old in a special educational daycare/pre-school. My mom is embarrassed about the state of the house--needs a lot of improvements inside and is in a looked down upon/"low-class" part of town. My cousin's wife is embarrassed that unlike the neighbors they can't just take on $20,000 renovations at the drop of a hat just to make the house look prettier.

But there are some very big differences between my cousin and his wife and my parents. Namely, that my cousin and his wife make about $100-110,000 a year while my parents make more like $50-60,000 a year. And my cousin and his wife own a $450,000 house while my parents will be lucky to get $200,000 (and much less in this market) for theirs. And honestly there probably isn't a huge difference in the amount of disposable income the two couples have or the kinds of cars they have or how often they go out to eat. But that is only because of the chooses my cousin and his wife about how to spend the extra $50,000 they have per year on top of what my parents have. So even though they feel like they are struggling, they really aren't--at least not nearly to the degree that my parents are. (It's probably also relevant that my parents are in their mid-50s and my cousin and his wife are in their late 20s and late 30s--so those income disparities will just keep growing for my cousin and his wife who have a lot of time to move up in their careers and make more money).