what is happening to CCV?

[RoseGold]

And while I appreciate the sleeper chairs, etc. It's still not another bed. It would be fantastic if a one bedroom with two queen beds were a separate booking category. I'd be on that like flies on poop.

I'm an average adult female, and I found the Poly Murphy quite comfortable. Poly has 1 bed, 1 sofa, and 1 Murphy, which might be exactly what you need with minimum point cost.

 

[princesslover]

I'm an average adult female, and I found the Poly Murphy quite comfortable. Poly has 1 bed, 1 sofa, and 1 Murphy, which might be exactly what you need with minimum point cost.

Yeah, unfortunately CCV is our home resort and where we stay 98% of the time. I guess I don't understand...people buy DVC at least in part, to stay in comfort. Yet, we were more comfortable before we bought DVC. My daughters both miss the resort rooms. Not kidding.

 

[RoseGold]

I guess I don't understand...people buy DVC at least in part, to stay in comfort.

DVC is missing a lot of things you would expect in "deluxe" resorts of this cost, like real beds, websites that don't crash all the time, bathrobes, etc. Even VGF expects you to sleep on sleeper sofas.

You definitely need to be aware of what you are buying. CC 1BR only sleeping 4 was a strange choice to me.

 

[princesslover]

DVC is missing a lot of things you would expect in "deluxe" resorts of this cost, like real beds, websites that don't crash all the time, bathrobes, etc. Even VGF expects you to sleep on sleeper sofas.

You definitely need to be aware of what you are buying. CC 1BR only sleeping 4 was a strange choice to me.

I think we were lulled in because we were long time Wilderness Lodge People. We had been staying there since 2009 when we bought DVC in 2018. It was the natural choice for us, so we didn't think twice. I don't really regret it, because it is our "home" but just wish the one bedrooms had a two bed option. Every time I mention this, someone mentions the murphy beds and pullouts, but I agree with you...shouldn't real beds be an expectation for a small family? I am glad the murphy beds are an option for those with an extra person, but I don't consider a family of four having "an extra person."

 

[Marionnette]

Yeah, unfortunately CCV is our home resort and where we stay 98% of the time. I guess I don't understand...people buy DVC at least in part, to stay in comfort. Yet, we were more comfortable before we bought DVC. My daughters both miss the resort rooms. Not kidding.

But, you knew going into the purchase that this was the bed configuration. I understand wanting a better option for your family, but there are other owners who would rather not see yet another booking category added to an already complicated booking system and adds more bodies to smaller accommodations. If you change a 1BR with king bed to a 1BR with 2 queens, you’ve effectively increased the occupancy limit of that 1BR by 2 people, often with only 1 bath for the group.

I much prefer the trend to the new Murphy-style sofa beds that were put in at RIV and SSR.

 

[princesslover]

But, you knew going into the purchase that this was the bed configuration. I understand wanting a better option for your family, but there are other owners who would rather not see yet another booking category added to an already complicated booking system and adds more bodies to smaller accommodations. If you change a 1BR with king bed to a 1BR with 2 queens, you’ve effectively increased the occupancy limit of that 1BR by 2 people, often with only 1 bath for the group.

I much prefer the trend to the new Murphy-style sofa beds that were put in at RIV and SSR.

Wow, ok. No need to be condescending and point out what I knew and didn't know going in. I was not aware we were not allowed to make observations and state what we wish were different after buying. So sorry.

Edited to add: Further, initially the studio was fine. It is as my kids get older we are finding it more confining. I suppose we should have also known how we would feel further down the road when signing.

 

[Marionnette]

Wow, ok. No need to be condescending and point out what I knew and didn't know going in. I was not aware we were not allowed to make observations and state what we wish were different after buying. So sorry.

Edited to add: Further, initially the studio was fine. It is as my kids get older we are finding it more confining. I suppose we should have also known how we would feel further down the road when signing.

No need to take offense. I’m just pointing out that CCV didn’t change, your preferences did. Not every owner shares your sentiments and I was expressing mine just as you were expressing yours.

 

[princesslover]

No need to take offense. I’m just pointing out that CCV didn’t change, your preferences did. Not every owner shares your sentiments and I was expressing mine just as you were expressing yours.

I am actually quite uncertain what your point was. Obviously I am aware CCV did not change. But thanks.

 

[Marionnette]

I am actually quite uncertain what your point was. Obviously I am aware CCV did not change. But thanks.

You’re welcome. Be well.

 

[Brian Noble]

people buy DVC at least in part, to stay in comfort.

I don't think this is as true as you'd think. And, I think it's become less true over time.

Old Key West, the oldest DVC resort, has between 0% and 30% of its rooms booked as studios on any given night. There are no dedicated studios, so it only comes down to how many lockoffs are booked separately. Riviera, the newest, has between 22% and 43% of its rooms booked as studios. That's a significant change, and it's not because of prior constraints: both resorts are purpose-built rather than hotel conversions, and neither was subject to constraints imposed by an existing sister resort.

I don't know about anyone else, but a big draw of timesharing for me was to get away from vacationing in hotel rooms. I liked having a living space that wasn't also someone's sleeping space. I really liked not having to share a bedroom with the kids. I liked having a kitchen and in-unit laundry. I know lots of people are perfectly happy having a hotel room or two on vacation, but that's just not for me. And, to me, a DVC studio is a glorified (and expensive) hotel room.

Now, you can argue about whether Disney is pushing this change on buyers, or buyers are influencing DVC's decisions about resort composition. Personally, I suspect it is mostly due to what I think of as DVC's Original Sin. If you compare DVC point charts to most other timeshare systems, DVC studios are under-pointed and the 1BRs over-pointed. In DVC, a >2x difference in points between them is common. In other systems it is much less. A spot-check of Marriott suggests a 1BR is a 1.4-1.5x premium over a studio, and that's at resorts that have the latter (many don't). In Wyndham, the smallest unit at a resort is typically a "Standard 1BR"---a smaller 1BR with a king bed in a private sleeping space plus a small living room with a mini kitchen and a pull out couch. These smaller 1BRs are usually about 20% fewer points than a "Deluxe 1BR", but the latter have a full kitchen and are usually quite a bit bigger.

 

[Lorana]

I don't think this is as true as you'd think. And, I think it's become less true over time.

Old Key West, the oldest DVC resort, has between 0% and 30% of its rooms booked as studios on any given night. There are no dedicated studios, so it only comes down to how many lockoffs are booked separately. Riviera, the newest, has between 22% and 43% of its rooms booked as studios. That's a significant change, and it's not because of prior constraints: both resorts are purpose-built rather than hotel conversions, and neither was subject to constraints imposed by an existing sister resort.

I don't know about anyone else, but a big draw of timesharing for me was to get away from vacationing in hotel rooms. I liked having a living space that wasn't also someone's sleeping space. I really liked not having to share a bedroom with the kids. I liked having a kitchen and in-unit laundry. I know lots of people are perfectly happy having a hotel room or two on vacation, but that's just not for me. And, to me, a DVC studio a glorified (and expensive) hotel room.

Now, you can argue about whether Disney is pushing this change on buyers, or buyers are influencing DVC's decisions about resort composition. Personally, I suspect it is mostly due to what I think of as DVC's Original Sin. If you compare DVC point charts to most other timeshare systems, DVC studios are under-pointed and the 1BRs over-pointed. In DVC, a >2x difference in points between them is common. In other systems it is much less. A spot-check of Marriott suggests a 1BR is a 1.4-1.5x premium over a studio, and that's at resorts that have the latter (most don't). In Wyndham, the smallest unit at a resort is typically a "Standard 1BR"---a smaller 1BR with a king bed in a private sleeping space plus a small living room with a mini kitchen and a pull out couch. These smaller 1BRs are usually about 20% fewer points than a "Deluxe 1BR", but the latter have a full kitchen and are usually quite a bit bigger.

So much this. We bought DVC because we wanted the Villas. The problem is the frugal part of my brain just can't handle pay x2 the cost for 1BRs, and so many times we just book studios. If 1BRs were only 1.4x/1.5x the cost, we'd book 1BRs all the time. Admittedly, though, we've also started moving towards booking 2BRs as the kids are teenagers, and often the difference between a 1BR and 2BR is so small, we feel we are "getting our points worth." The cost of 1BRs is just ridiculous, in comparison to the Studio and 2BR value.

 

[fancymouse]

I agree. Hope they will reduce a bit the cost of Cabins to balance a bit more the picture.
I am wondering how many cabins remain empty every year. It is quite easy to find one available even at peak times...

We rented points for November and got a cabin. I was shocked as all of the cabins around us were full. Considering WL is still closed, the pool was crazy busy as well. Strangely enough, about a month after I booked the cabin by renting, I saw it was able to be booked through Disney for the same price I paid through renting.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'd never really looked at owning CCV so I never took a good look, but I don't think I realized until today just how out of balance that resort is.

At the other resorts I've looked at, "large-point" rooms are about 3-6% of the total room inventory. (I am considering Grand Villas and Poly/CCV Cabins to be "large point", and I am counting by door locks, not point values). BLT is 3-5% depending on how many lockoffs are split. GFV is 4-6%. Riviera is almost flat at 5.5-5.8%. Even Poly is in that range, with 5.3% of the room-keys opening a bungalow on any given night.

CCV is 13-16%

Yikes.

(Edited to fix the numbers: I was missing large-point rooms in the denominator).

 

[princesslover]

I don't think this is as true as you'd think. And, I think it's become less true over time.

Old Key West, the oldest DVC resort, has between 0% and 30% of its rooms booked as studios on any given night. There are no dedicated studios, so it only comes down to how many lockoffs are booked separately. Riviera, the newest, has between 22% and 43% of its rooms booked as studios. That's a significant change, and it's not because of prior constraints: both resorts are purpose-built rather than hotel conversions, and neither was subject to constraints imposed by an existing sister resort.

I don't know about anyone else, but a big draw of timesharing for me was to get away from vacationing in hotel rooms. I liked having a living space that wasn't also someone's sleeping space. I really liked not having to share a bedroom with the kids. I liked having a kitchen and in-unit laundry. I know lots of people are perfectly happy having a hotel room or two on vacation, but that's just not for me. And, to me, a DVC studio is a glorified (and expensive) hotel room.

Now, you can argue about whether Disney is pushing this change on buyers, or buyers are influencing DVC's decisions about resort composition. Personally, I suspect it is mostly due to what I think of as DVC's Original Sin. If you compare DVC point charts to most other timeshare systems, DVC studios are under-pointed and the 1BRs over-pointed. In DVC, a >2x difference in points between them is common. In other systems it is much less. A spot-check of Marriott suggests a 1BR is a 1.4-1.5x premium over a studio, and that's at resorts that have the latter (many don't). In Wyndham, the smallest unit at a resort is typically a "Standard 1BR"---a smaller 1BR with a king bed in a private sleeping space plus a small living room with a mini kitchen and a pull out couch. These smaller 1BRs are usually about 20% fewer points than a "Deluxe 1BR", but the latter have a full kitchen and are usually quite a bit bigger.

I am too lazy to figure out the multi quotes on my phone but just wanted to say that I think studios are not even a glorified hotel room. Since the kitchenette adds next to nothing to our experience but the pullout as 2nd bed takes away, it’s worse. I’d rather have a resort room.
I also agree that the points for one bedrooms are way out of whack. Would be more in line if there were a 2nd bed maybe. We can’t justify the extra points for the exact same issues with sleeping arrangements.

(Please note, only sharing my own personal experience. YMMV)

 

[RoseGold]

I'd never really looked at owning CCV so I never took a good look, but I don't think I realized until today just how out of balance that resort is.

Wow! That balance is surprising to me as well! WL is not my jam, so I never looked into it, but yea, that math is not what I expected. I did do the math for my VGF and decided that lower range bookings should be possible going forward, and not a CC situation.

I guess that math explains why everyone is constantly complaining about CC studio availability. The mathematical solution is just book a cabin.

 

[The Jackal]

We stayed in a studio for the 2nd time this past December. We are a family of four with a 17 and 14 year old. While we had an amazing trip and enjoyed the parks overall, we all agreed this is our last stay in a studio. It felt cramped and not that enjoyable. I am currently looking to add on points so we can stay in a two bedroom so my daughters can have their own beds.

This is off topic a bit, but is anyone else annoyed that the only way to get more than one bed is a two bedroom? Why don't they offer a one bedroom with two beds (similar to resort rooms?) We really don't need the size of a two bedroom, but that is our only option if each of my kids would like their own bed. We often lament that the sleeping arrangements were better when we were booking resort rooms (compared to a studio, with the pullout.)

OKW is the only DVC resort with 2 queen sized beds. RIV and now SSR will have a queen bed and a Murphy pull down couch bed. It has a real mattress and has great reviews compared to the sleeper sofas. Most resorts when they get refurbished will get the Murphy bed. It will be a few years before CCV will get them.

 

[Brian Noble]

WL is not my jam

I really like WL, and have stayed at BRV (nee VWL) several times. I wouldn't mind owning here, but if I did it would be at BRV. The difference in purchase price makes up for the difference in dues, the room mix makes more sense, and I'm going to be in my 70s when BRV expires.

 

[Chuck S]

It is unlikely they could change any existing one bedroom to accommodate 2 beds in the master instead of a king, legally. Timeshare laws say they can not substantially change what was purchased. For instance, changing sofa sleepers to Murphy beds of the same size is not a substantial change, both are a hideaway type bed to allow open floor space. Changing the bed size options and configurations on the other hand, is a substantial physical change from what was represented at time of purchase.

 

[Chuck S]

I am too lazy to figure out the multi quotes on my phone but just wanted to say that I think studios are not even a glorified hotel room. Since the kitchenette adds next to nothing to our experience but the pullout as 2nd bed takes away, it’s worse. I’d rather have a resort room.
I also agree that the points for one bedrooms are way out of whack. Would be more in line if there were a 2nd bed maybe. We can’t justify the extra points for the exact same issues with sleeping arrangements.

(Please note, only sharing my own personal experience. YMMV)

Really, it sounds like DVC may not have been the best decision for your family. It happens. The good news is, you should be able to easily sell your contracts, or rent the points out, and go back to the regularly available hotel rooms if that is a better option for you and your family. DVC isn't right for everyone, no timeshare is. DVC fits well in my normal travel patterns, I often stay solo in a one bedroom. If it did not meet my needs, I would look to sell or rent my points. This year, given DVC's flexibility, and the extra points from not going in 2020, I am getting a Grand Villa AND a Two Bedroom for an 11 person trip over Thanksgiving.

 

[sethschroeder]

Yeah, unfortunately CCV is our home resort and where we stay 98% of the time. I guess I don't understand...people buy DVC at least in part, to stay in comfort. Yet, we were more comfortable before we bought DVC. My daughters both miss the resort rooms. Not kidding.

The room capacity is not the same as recommended room occupation.

Also they are bringing the pull down Murphy beds as well with RIV, SSR, and I think OKW. Those should bring in the option for better comfort while keep the layouts practical. Example I wouldn't want 2 beds in a 1br because it would never be more than just me+dw in that room except when we had the baby/toddler in there (which won't occur once they are not a baby/toddler).

I am fine with pull downs but taking up a bunch of room in a 1BR for another bed that would always go unused is wasteful in my mind. These new pull downs are a good option though, put a sofa in the 1BR as a seating area, and put a bed there.