What is China like, for visiting kids?

[lost*in*cyberspace]

You already know this is not a good idea. I would not allow this until the girls are in their late teens. It's a very, very long plane ride to an extremely unfamiliar country, and your kds are too young to appreciate it. They'd get a lot more out of a trip somewhere in the US.

 

[Sunnywho]

I'd say let them go. Make sure she brings her epipen. They will have two adults with them as well as the extended family when they are in the village.

 

[Pigeon]

Nothing approaching modern medical care? There are modern hospitals in every decent sized city, and China has tons of decent sized cities. Some of the newer, high end housing developments in wealthier areas even have their own, on-site hospitals. I toured a few. I also toured a gigantic, high-tech cancer research center in Nanning.

I agree about your ex driving, but hiring a driver is pretty inexpensive.

You can find Buddhist restaurants in major cities that specialize in vegetarian dishes. Otherwise, expect stealth pork in food even if you've specified you don't want meat. We took a couple of vegetarians on one trip I went on, and we had to make it very clear to them that they would be served meat at some point, no matter how much we requested otherwise.

 

[talulabelle]

My son visited China last year and Imessaging between our Iphones was free. Also Facetime between our iphones was free. This was the only way I communicated with him. He was exactly 12 hour difference so he would text when he woke up (I was making dinner) then when he was going to bed (I was eating breakfast) once every couple days we Facetimed because I liked to see his face so that I knew for sure everything was ok.

 

[robsmom]

I spent several weeks in China for business and have been to Taiwan and Singapore as well. I have a shell fish allergy and I had no issues but I did have to be careful. I had to double check broths to make sure that there was no shrimp, sometimes if it was not the main ingredient my friend who was speaking Chinese would forget to ask about other ingredients. If you can make sure that the new wife really understands the issue, I think you will be fine. I appreciate that you are nervous about this, but also see this as a fabulous opportunity for your children. To go to China with a native speaking person and to visit with family and see real life is not something everyone gets. I can remember that there were two worlds outside my hotel. To the front was a western world and to the back was from a different time and place. I had a local colleague hosting me and got to see a bit of the real world (mostly shopping) but not much. Most of what I saw was similar to any large city. China is very safe for visitors. It was explained to me that tourism is still a new economy for mainland China. They want American's to go home and tell other people to come. Friends told me that if you commit a crime against a foreigner (especially American and European) the penalties are very high.

 

[danygirl]

the thing about the epipen is this ...you have to get to a hospital or dr after you use it.

my ds (22) has a shellfish allergy. we have a hard time convincing family members of the seriousness - because with shellfish the proteins are aerosolized (spelling??) when it is cooked. so if someone is steaming shellfish that alone could set off a reaction. If I can't convince my American Family (who somehow "get" my niece's peanut allergy), how will your child protect herself when they are with step mom's relatively nonenglish speaking family??? For that reason alone I would veto the trip.

I don't know if your dd has had an anaphalactic (there goes my spelling again) reaction, but you feel bad for about a week after. My DS won't eat in Chinese restaurants because he is afraid. He can't identify all the ingredients and can't protect himself.

I would say NO due to the death allergy. 8 isn't very old to have to deal with these issues alone.

 

[luvmarypoppins]

I'm not normally very paranoid but I agree with this. There is no recourse if he decides to just stay there with your girls. His wife and new child's tie to china is obviously strong if the child mostly only speaks chinese but they live in the US.

I dont think I would agree with this. All the people my dh deals with want their children to go to college and live in the US. They will do anything to make this happen. Education and perfectionism with grades etc. is top priority to get out of their country.

They love to work on projects that dh does because they know they will get to get out of their country for a few weeks etc. They are obsessed with shopping here in the US. People my dh deals with must jump through hoops and get special permission just to leave China.

Honestly these people are trying to get out of their country, not stay there.

Op I would also worry about your dd's allergy more so in the rural area.

 

[midwestdee]

Come on people, we are talking about sending 2 young children to the other side of the Earth with a dad that has not been massively involved in their day to day lives and bascially a stranger who doesn't speak English well. Really? I work in a middle school with 12 years old and I wouldn't allow this for the most responsible one I know. Children that are 12 and 8 are helpless, repeat, helpless, to protect themselves. Children rely on the adults in their lives to use the common sense that God gave them. Unfortunately, I see the impact of idiot adult decisions everyday in some of these children's lives.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Come on people, we are talking about sending 2 young children to the other side of the Earth with a dad that has not been massively involved in their day to day lives and bascially a stranger who doesn't speak English well. Really? I work in a middle school with 12 years old and I wouldn't allow this for the most responsible one I know. Children that are 12 and 8 are helpless, repeat, helpless, to protect themselves. Children rely on the adults in their lives to use the common sense that God gave them. Unfortunately, I see the impact of idiot adult decisions everyday in some of these children's lives.

I agree with you. I have been fortunate enough to have traveled all over the world and it isn't always fun or easy and things can go wrong. We aren't talking about taking two young girls with their parents to WDW.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

My son visited China last year and Imessaging between our Iphones was free. Also Facetime between our iphones was free. This was the only way I communicated with him. He was exactly 12 hour difference so he would text when he woke up (I was making dinner) then when he was going to bed (I was eating breakfast) once every couple days we Facetimed because I liked to see his face so that I knew for sure everything was ok.

Yes it was free, because you were using wi-fi. Using the phone lines from China to the US is a whole different story, $$$$!

 

[Colleen27]

The shellfish allergy would be my big worry. DH is deathly allergic to fish and it can be a challenge when dealing with other cultures where serious allergies are less common. Outside of the US and Canada, labeling isn't as clear and there's always a possibility of running into the allergen in a "hidden" form (for example, fish stock in dishes that don't contain actual fish is the bane of DH's existence when we're traveling).

I wouldn't worry about the rest of the logistics, but only you can decide if your ex and your girls will be able to maintain the level of vigilance it will take to make sure her food is safe.

 

[PelletierBears]

Come on people, we are talking about sending 2 young children to the other side of the Earth with a dad that has not been massively involved in their day to day lives and bascially a stranger who doesn't speak English well. Really? I work in a middle school with 12 years old and I wouldn't allow this for the most responsible one I know. Children that are 12 and 8 are helpless, repeat, helpless, to protect themselves. Children rely on the adults in their lives to use the common sense that God gave them. Unfortunately, I see the impact of idiot adult decisions everyday in some of these children's lives.

Ah a voice of reason!

There is no way on God's green earth I'd let my young kids go to the other side of the world with a father who has been only somewhat involved in their lives.

I get that it's a great opportunity, etc but their safety is more important than the experience. If they were teens I might feel a bit differently but 8 and 12...no way! And not only will they be with a dad who has not been involved on a daily basis in their lives but traveling with a step-mom who speaks limited english. I wouldn't mind being the bad guy in this scenario and just telling them they have to wait until they're older.

I'd like to comment on something the OP mentioned about her girls step-sister who is 2 1/2 and only speaks chinese... the parents (your ex and his wife) expect her to learn english when she gets to school??? Really? Does he not speak to his own daughter enough that she's picking up words from him (or maybe he speaks chinese also). Is this standard for kids in dual langauge households? Let the school system teach them english?

 

[Scotch]

I'm not sure if the OP has has a chance to research what folks mean whey they say the air quality is bad in China. Here are some recent pics:

Click here for a recent February Washington Post blog photo.

This article and this one have photos taken this January.

And those are photos of Beijing where the bureaucrats live. I can't imagine what some other outlier cities' air quality may look like.

I, too, wouldn't let my kids go in this situation, mainly because of the combination of the young age of the kids; serious allergies in a country where the typical residents/doctors/food preparers don't have that much familiarity with food allergies; questionable access to good medical care in the rural part of China; lack of ability to fully communicate with the Chinese-speaking wife; the horrible air quality; and the historically not-so-responsible dad being the only English-speaking adult in the group. If you were also going, then I think some of these issues would be less problematic as you know that you would definitely watch out for those kids' best interest at all times. (The easy access to knowledgeable medical care in rural parts and the air quality would remain serious issues.) But will your ex and his wife be as vigilent?

I've wanted to go visit China for a long time, and I do plan to go some day. But I'm going to wait until my kids are older. For me, the language isn't an issue as I speak Mandarin Chinese. But there are so many other reasons I wouldn't bring young kids there yet, one of which is the fact that I won't risk their young developing lungs with the cra* that is being inhaled by folks in China lately. And we're not even talking about the frequency of second hand cigarette smoke yet.

Oh yeah, that driving part . . . . I've had family friends who are native Chinese who grew up in places like Taiwan and they wouldn't even drive around in China. You couldn't pay me to get into a car in China that's driven by an American who hasn't spent extensive time driving on China's roads, who isn't used to the extremely congested traffic, and who isn't familiar with all the Chinese road signs and traffic laws. There is no way I would let my young kids sit in such a car.

 

[Scotch]

I'd like to comment on something the OP mentioned about her girls step-sister who is 2 1/2 and only speaks chinese... the parents (your ex and his wife) expect her to learn english when she gets to school??? Really? Does he not speak to his own daughter enough that she's picking up words from him (or maybe he speaks chinese also). Is this standard for kids in dual langauge households? Let the school system teach them english?

Actually, many folks know that's the best way to raise a billingual kid. English is easy to pick up -- one year in Kindergarten and some TV viewing and the kid is set to go and she won't even have an accent. But Chinese (and some other foreign languages) are harder to learn when you are older.

 

[Tinkerbellie16]

My ex's new wife is from China. He has been promising the girls that he would take them to China for the last 5 years but as I expected the plans keep falling through. My oldest just let him know how it feels that he takes his "new" child every year and not them, so he promised them he would take them this time. I have a lot of reservations which I haven't talked with him about yet, because I assumed he wouldn't get his act together to take them, but it appears like he is going forward with it. I was not- so- secretly hoping he wouldn't manage it until they were both teenagers. I have full custody and could say no and that would most likely be the end of it. I realize this could be an amazing cultural and educational experience for my girls, though. The only person I know who has visited before is my mom. She has travelled the world and said it is the one place she wouldn't return. She found it to be dirty, poor air quality, everyone smoking, etc. but that was 10-15 years ago. My oldest dd has health issues and air quality concerns me, and my younger dd has allergies that require an epi-pen. Dad as you may have gathered is not a responsible guy. But the girls are very responsible for their ages. They will be 12 and 8 when they go. They both know how to administer their meds. What to look out for health wise for themselves and their sister, etc. My questions are what is China like for tourists? Would it generally be safe for my young girls? Is the air quality still bad, is everyone still smoking? What about health care and police if there was a problem? They would be in Bejing for several days and then to a remote village where the wife's family lives. Second if they go, I would like to have the girls have some emergency money, accessible by them, not Dad. I was thinking something along the lines of a debit card? Would this work there? Wondering if I could have some money in their account and then transfer more if a real emergency rises? Would it be immediate like in the states? How much should I send them with? What about phone service? They have regular cells, but I imagine if they worked roaming would be a fortune. Is there some other option so they can get ahold of me? I have some time, but I would like to know all the details before I say yes or no.

Ok, your first question about what china is like for kids...horrible. Boring, gross, scary, ... Did I mention boring?? I've travelled to over 30 countries and I shudder when I think of my trip to china. I wouldn't take my own kids there even with my husband/their father. We look for discount deals and found a great rate for china a few months ago and when my husband asked what i thought, i had an anxiety attack and i haven't had one since we flew internationally right after 9/11. And with the situation you described (and I know it is a condensed version), I wouldn't allow it. Wait until they are 18 to make their own decision. If dad wants to do something for his kids, he can take them to Disney or a dude ranch. That is MY opinion.

 

[mombrontrent]

Actually, many folks know that's the best way to raise a billingual kid. English is easy to pick up -- one year in Kindergarten and some TV viewing and the kid is set to go and she won't even have an accent. But Chinese (and some other foreign languages) are harder to learn when you are older.

Exactly! We live in a very multi-cultural area. My kids have started kindergarden with more then a few kids who didn't speak a word of English. By the end of the first year they were as fluent in English as every other kid who spoke English from birth. I know kids aged 11 and 13 who moved here in Novemeber not speaking a word of English and having been in school for a few months have picked up the language very well and can carry on a conversation.

 

[Alesia]

I'd like to comment on something the OP mentioned about her girls step-sister who is 2 1/2 and only speaks chinese... the parents (your ex and his wife) expect her to learn english when she gets to school??? Really? Does he not speak to his own daughter enough that she's picking up words from him (or maybe he speaks chinese also). Is this standard for kids in dual langauge households? Let the school system teach them english?

Yes. In fact, if you want them to grow up to be bilingual, it's pretty much the only way to do it.

 

[Sagginit]

Come on people, we are talking about sending 2 young children to the other side of the Earth with a dad that has not been massively involved in their day to day lives and bascially a stranger who doesn't speak English well. Really? I work in a middle school with 12 years old and I wouldn't allow this for the most responsible one I know. Children that are 12 and 8 are helpless, repeat, helpless, to protect themselves. Children rely on the adults in their lives to use the common sense that God gave them. Unfortunately, I see the impact of idiot adult decisions everyday in some of these children's lives.

i agree. i was a child of divorce and my dad was decently involved when i was a kid. every other weekend and a few full weeks in the summer were spent with him growing up. we did a weekend trip to williamsburg VA and it went well so he decided to take us to WDW the next year when i was 12. DISASTER at times during the trip. daily life with my mother was so different and those massive differences will add up.

also as a celiac i can't tell you how much different they are with allergies in other countries. even in London last year I had a hard time getting info on what they were serving. i got glutened once (that i know of from a reaction) and lost about 5 lbs in a week because i kept eating salads and fruits everywhere we went. heck i still get glutened in NYC and i do my research.

as other said an epi pen requires a hospital visit, and if put in wrong can make things really serious. i know its their father but it's not his hands you are putting her life in, its the hands of strangers in restaurants halfway around the world.

i think you know this is a really bad idea but you don't want your kids to hate you. my mother was a no way in hell type of mother and i don't hate her for it as an adult. i went and lived in france in college and as an adult i get to travel wherever i want. she kept me safe and alive to make these choices myself now that i am old enough to fend for myself.

 

[LockShockBarrel]

OK I had to flick quickly through the last page and a half to get this response in before I have to leave for work so if this has been said, I'm sorry and bear with me.

I think you have 2 entirely separate issues here. First is, "Do I let my children go to China at all? Is it safe for them in general, is it healthy for them in general, etc". The second is, "If I decide that China as a country is someplace I'm ok with my children being, am I ok with them being with their dad and the new woman and their child?"

From what it sounds like, the father is trusting the wife/gf (I'm not sure which she is) on all things about this trip and he won't put in any type of research about what its like for non native visitors. That he'll say "Oh we're with her so it's all good."

You say that he's not the greatest father to the kids in their "normal" life, so that leads me to believe its not going to change over there. I doubt the kids would be accepted or get any attention from the new wife/gf's family especially since there's a baby in the mix that's actually related to them going. I'm not trying to stereotype here, but I just doubt in a rural setting and upbring that will fly with them.

A trip to China probably sounds amazing to your kids, especially since it's been hyped up to them over the years and they might be thinking "OK cool trip with daddy finally!" but they can't logically think this through. Let me ask you this OP...do your kids ever call you when they're with their dad and say they want to come home? Can they go for long lengths of time without talking to you? If they go, they'll be in it for the long haul.

In the same vein, can the father deal with them for the whole length of the trip? How long is he used to having them vs how long this proposed trip will be? Is he going to get annoyed or resentful having them along?

I think you have to set aside some of the emotional stuff here and look at the more factual things. If you think he can safely take care of them and they would have fun, maybe you need to step aside and let them go. If you think they'd truly be in danger, or that the family dynamic over there would kind of exclude your kids, that's different.

 

[Poohforyou]

My DD is adopted from China and we took her back when she was 10. We were part of a tour group which really helped us see a lot of things. We spent a few days in Beijing, a few where DD is from, a few in Guangzhou and finally a few in Hong Kong where we have family.

Here are some of the things we saw that DD enjoyed:

- Beijing zoo and aquarium (great Panda house built before the Olympics - beautiful park setting)
- Great Wall
- jade factory
- cloisonne factory
- tea ceremony
- Beijing acobats
- hutongs
- rickshaw ride
- paddle boating
- shopping
- eating
- HK Disney
- Victoria Peak & tram
- Star ferry in HK harbor

We went in late March over spring break. DD missed a few days of school as well. I would really only go in the spring or fall. The summer is oppressive and the air qualite is really poor. We were there in June/July when we were finishing our adoption.

In the spring it is low 60's and very dry in Beijing and low 80's with moderate humidity in Hong Kong.