What exactly IS an internship

[soccerdad72]

Again, to me, face-time and paying dues isn't an internship. An internship is basically on the job training.

ITA. While it sounds like the receptionist gig was a good way to get ones foot in the door, it still doesn't sound like an "internship", per se. Especially in the accounting world, where internships involve at least a certain amount of accounting work (often the basics, but much more than answering phones).

 

[wvjules]

Ahhh. Government jobs are entirely different.

I think most professional internships operate this way. Getting a foot in the door by doing grunt work is not the same as an internship. The defintion of internship:

internship - An internship is a method of on-the-job training for white-collar and professional careers.

I guess I will be the odd man out in what I consider to be an internship.

BTW, how would you put a grunt work internship on resume that would benefit your career goals? Jobs that I plan to apply for require certain years of experience doing certain things. Not one of them requires experience in copying, filing, answering phones, etc.

 

[sonnyjane]

I think most professional internships operate this way. Getting a foot in the door by doing grunt work is not the same as an internship. The defintion of internship: I guess I will be the odd man out in what I consider to be an internship. BTW, how would you put a grunt work internship on resume that would benefit your career goals? Jobs that I plan to apply for require certain years of experience doing certain things. Not one of them requires experience in copying, filing, answering phones, etc.

Well if you're not working for a job like that, then I can understand that. When I was doing PR, there was quite a lot of copying, filing, making calls, etc. once I was hired full-time, and as I already explained earlier we did LEARN, we just weren't actually in charge of accounts like actual employees. I also did a 4-month (unpaid) internship for a civilian gov't contractor in a different field - a highly competitive internship I was lucky to land. Again, while we did learn and have time doing actual work beside the full-time employees, we also did an awful lot of grunt work. We were told that our doing the trivial stuff helps the actual employees do their jobs more effectively bc we do the hard stuff. We still got some hands-on time, but most of the day (I'd say 5 out of 8 hours) was grunt work. That was for college credit. I've done three internships and have had a lot of friends that have done many as well to compare to. I didn't say we didn't get any valuable experience, just that we were expected to do the least desirable tasks. I absolutely never got paid leave or anything like that as you describe about your situation. In that instance, what YOU are describing actually doesn't jive with my expectations of an internship.

Guess we shall agree to disagree.

 

[dakcp2001]

An internship is a couple of months long interview. My husband works for an advertising agency that hires interns twice a year. It's super competitive, and if you get it, you get to see and do a little bit of a lot of things to help see where you fit. They shadow in several areas and get to work on actual client contract with the rest if the team. Most are extended an offer upon graduation. It's basically 6 months of training, networking, and securing a job upon graduation. For some, it's learning what you don't like or don't want to do!

You also do all the grunt work and fetching. But it's worth it.

 

[NotUrsula]

I am 41.

For my education requirment I had to do journal entries every day about what I learned. I also had to be evaluated mid-internship and when I complete my 300 hours. Then I have to give a presentation. I have completed my hours, evaluations and journal entries. I just need to make the presentation and then I've completed the PSU educational requirment of my for-credit internship.

For the intership requirements of my job (we acutally had to sign an agreement) I get treated just like every other employee. I am on the same federal evaluation cycle, same sick and annual leave accumulations, same GS pay schedule, same telework opportunities, and now I do the exact same work as the full-time auditors. The only difference is that my audits, currently, are those with no obvious complicating factors. Having to do grunt work would be useless. It does not enhance your education or experience, at least in my opinion it does not.

Oh, and it wasn't provided through the university nor did they assist in obtaining it. I had to seek out and apply for all internships. I landed a great one.

You landed in gravy, is what you did. Most federal jobs are under civil service rules that would not allow an outside candidate to even apply for such a job, let alone get a GS rating for it. While probably 30% of internships offer some kind of base pay, internships that have any benefits at all are rarer than hen's teeth.

The IRS has been making noises about insisting that internships pay minimum wage, but there is HUGE pushback from several powerful industry lobbies on that. In prestige careers, internships are largely an acid test to see if you will put up with whatever is thrown at you and still maintain a dedicated work ethic. They can teach you the work, what they want you there long-time to examine is your personality and innate organizational skills. Not paying is part of that; they want people who want to be there so badly that they will do it for free (and sometimes because they want people whose family background makes it feasible to do it for free. People from such families typically have connections that can prove useful to the firm down the road.) This is NOT typical of investment banks, law firms, old-line publishing houses, and prestige accounting firms; they traditionally pay summer interns.

Oh, and by "thrown at you" ... sometimes that is literal. I know several firms who make a point of hiring interns to work for their most difficult partners; the ones who like to throw things when work isn't up to their exacting standards. It saves them a lot of associate turnover down the road.

 

[soccerdad72]

Not paying is part of that; they want people who want to be there so badly that they will do it for free. This is typical of investment banks, law firms, old-line publishing houses, and prestige accounting firms.

I can tell you that it's not the case with "prestige accounting firms". I can't speak to the other examples, but I do know that accounting firms have always paid their interns. My wife is an audit partner at a Big 4 accounting firm and they pay their interns well. The internships are highly sought after, but they're also a tool for the firms to recruit the top talent because the vast majority of the internships get full time offers after graduation.

 

[wvjules]

I can tell you that it's not the case with "prestige accounting firms". I can't speak to the other examples, but I do know that accounting firms have always paid their interns. My wife is an audit partner at a Big 4 accounting firm and they pay their interns well. The internships are highly sought after, but they're also a tool for the firms to recruit the top talent because the vast majority of the internships get full time offers after graduation.

So I'll be looking for a job when I graduate in May....lol (unless they convert me, of course)

 

[wvjules]

You landed in gravy, is what you did. Most federal jobs are under civil service rules that would not allow an outside candidate to even apply for such a job, let alone get a GS rating for it. While probably 30% of internships offer some kind of base pay, internships that have any benefits at all are rarer than hen's teeth.

The IRS has been making noises about insisting that internships pay minimum wage, but there is HUGE pushback from several powerful industry lobbies on that. In prestige careers, internships are largely an acid test to see if you will put up with whatever is thrown at you and still maintain a dedicated work ethic. They can teach you the work, what they want you there long-time to examine is your personality and innate organizational skills. Not paying is part of that; they want people who want to be there so badly that they will do it for free (and sometimes because they want people whose family background makes it feasible to do it for free. People from such families typically have connections that can prove useful to the firm down the road.) This is typical of investment banks, law firms, old-line publishing houses, and prestige accounting firms.

Oh, and by "thrown at you" ... sometimes that is literal. I know several firms who make a point of hiring interns to work for their most difficult partners; the ones who like to throw things when work isn't up to their exacting standards. It saves them a lot of associate turnover down the road.

There is a whole program out there this is exactly the opposite of what you state. All are GS, or whatever pay scale for that division, all offer some benefits (I don't get Health insurance in this job but I know other internships do offer it), transportation subsidy, flexible work schedule, etc. You're right, this job is "gravy" compared to what some of you are describing.

Today's current Pathways listings:

https://www.usajobs.gov/Search?Internship=Yes

 

[clarabelle]

Those aren't internships then. I'm not sure what to call them but certainly not an internship.

Pee-on? The peed on you?

Peon? I think

 

[sonnyjane]

Peon? I think

Lol yes. Haha. Clearly it wasn't an English internship lol!

 

[Hrhpd]

I think most professional internships operate this way. Getting a foot in the door by doing grunt work is not the same as an internship. The defintion of internship:



I guess I will be the odd man out in what I consider to be an internship.

BTW, how would you put a grunt work internship on resume that would benefit your career goals? Jobs that I plan to apply for require certain years of experience doing certain things. Not one of them requires experience in copying, filing, answering phones, etc.

No, you are not the odd man out. I agree what has been described would not be considered internships in my world.

However, it seems that different fields offer different types of "internships."

Everybody I know, including my family are engineers. Being a receptionist or a courier would not be considered an internship and would not help you get a job later. You have to be able to list the actual project you were working on.

For instance, a friend of ours is a comp sci major. She interns at Microsoft. She has a small, particular piece of code she was assigned to. Another person is in aerospace. They are interning at Lockheed Martin, working on a satellite project. Naturally, they are not the leads, but they are part of a project group and are assigned "real" tasks, overseen by the senior project managers.

DH has interns occasionally. His company works closely with the local University to match a potential intern with a project that matches his/her field of study..

 

[Hrhpd]

Lol yes. Haha. Clearly it wasn't an English internship lol!

Shhh, don't admit that.....Here I thought it was a very clever play on the word peon.

 

[NotUrsula]

I can tell you that it's not the case with "prestige accounting firms". I can't speak to the other examples, but I do know that accounting firms have always paid their interns. My wife is an audit partner at a Big 4 accounting firm and they pay their interns well. The internships are highly sought after, but they're also a tool for the firms to recruit the top talent because the vast majority of the internships get full time offers after graduation.

You are right of course. I corrected my post when your post made me realize that I'd accidentally written the opposite of what I meant to say. There was NOT that was missing.

 

[Southernmiss]

ITA. While it sounds like the receptionist gig was a good way to get ones foot in the door, it still doesn't sound like an "internship", per se. Especially in the accounting world, where internships involve at least a certain amount of accounting work (often the basics, but much more than answering phones).

The firm and school have both called his job an internship. He's been there since June. First few weeks, he was basically doing receptionist type jobs. After a few weeks he went to his boss and asked for more work. The last conversation we had about the job, he was getting more tasks to help the accountants research information and learning from some of the accountants. I am sure he'll have more opportunities to do more accounting type work as time goes on. It's just been good for him to get his foot in the door and be in the accounting environment. And he is paid pretty nicely for a college kid. With busy schedules and since he lives in his college town and not home, we've not talked about the job in depth recently. Though i know he's still got it.

That's our experiencen YMMV.

 

[tvguy]

California state law forbids interns from doing work. They can observe employees, and do work tasks but only if they are being directly supervised by the employee who is assigned to do that job.

Most internships are for college (or in some cases high school) credit. The school is required to carry insurance that covers the intern in case they get hurt on the job site.
This may be an overly broad statement, but private company internships normally are not paid positions.

Internships are an excellent way for someone to get a first hand look at a career they are considering.

My DD is currently doing an internship at a PR firm. Her degree requires one internship. DW and I were both interns 35+ years ago For both of us, it got our foot in the door, and after we graduated we both were hired by the last place we interned at .

 

[Hrhpd]

California state law forbids interns from doing work. They can observe employees, and do work tasks but only if they are being directly supervised by the employee who is assigned to do that job.

Most internships are for college (or in some cases high school) credit. The school is required to carry insurance that covers the intern in case they get hurt on the job site.
This may be an overly broad statement, but private company internships normally are not paid positions.

Internships are an excellent way for someone to get a first hand look at a career they are considering.

My DD is currently doing an internship at a PR firm. Her degree requires one internship. DW and I were both interns 35+ years ago For both of us, it got our foot in the door, and after we graduated we both were hired by the last place we interned at .

Not exactly. California's unpaid intern rules are exactly the same as Federal rules.

These rules are set up to differentiate an unpaid intern from an employee, so that there are no expectations of payment nor employment.

Here are the rules:
Legal Requirements for Unpaid Internships
According to the U.S. Department of Labor and the California Department of Labor Standards Enforcement, there are certain standards that employers must follow when taking on unpaid interns. These requirements are intended to ensure that the intern is really receiving a valuable learning experience in exchange for free labor. Unless all of the following criteria are met, the intern is legally an employee, who must be paid the minimum wage, earn overtime, and receive all of the other protections guaranteed by state and federal employment laws:

• Interns cannot displace regular employees.
• Interns are not guaranteed a job at the end of the internship.
• The employer and the intern(s) understand that the interns are not entitled to wages during the internship period.
• Interns must receive training from the company, even if it somewhat impedes on the work of the organization.
• Interns must get hands-on experience with equipment and processes used in the industry.
• Interns' training must primarily benefit them, not the company.

Notice, unpaid interns can work, in fact they are required to have hands on experience with the equipment and processes used in the industry. But their training has to match them and not the company's needs.

So, per California and Federal law, an unpaid accounting intern could not be answering the phones as this would be benefitting the company and not the intern. The company must be training the intern in its accounting practices.

However, it is completely different for paid interns. Paid interns are employees and their work can benefit the company.

 

[teller80]

For instance, a friend of ours is a comp sci major. She interns at Microsoft. She has a small, particular piece of code she was assigned to. Another person is in aerospace. They are interning at Lockheed Martin, working on a satellite project. Naturally, they are not the leads, but they are part of a project group and are assigned "real" tasks, overseen by the senior project managers.

Nice gigs! What year of schooling are they in? I'm thinking they must be at least a junior or a senior?

 

[tvguy]

Not exactly. California's unpaid intern rules are exactly the same as Federal rules.

These rules are set up to differentiate an unpaid intern from an employee, so that there are no expectations of payment nor employment.

Here are the rules:
Legal Requirements for Unpaid Internships
According to the U.S. Department of Labor and the California Department of Labor Standards Enforcement, there are certain standards that employers must follow when taking on unpaid interns. These requirements are intended to ensure that the intern is really receiving a valuable learning experience in exchange for free labor. Unless all of the following criteria are met, the intern is legally an employee, who must be paid the minimum wage, earn overtime, and receive all of the other protections guaranteed by state and federal employment laws:

• Interns cannot displace regular employees.
• Interns are not guaranteed a job at the end of the internship.
• The employer and the intern(s) understand that the interns are not entitled to wages during the internship period.
• Interns must receive training from the company, even if it somewhat impedes on the work of the organization.
• Interns must get hands-on experience with equipment and processes used in the industry.
• Interns' training must primarily benefit them, not the company.

Notice, unpaid interns can work, in fact they are required to have hands on experience with the equipment and processes used in the industry. But their training has to match them and not the company's needs.

So, per California and Federal law, an unpaid accounting intern could not be answering the phones as this would be benefitting the company and not the intern. The company must be training the intern in its accounting practices.

However, it is completely different for paid interns. Paid interns are employees and their work can benefit the company.

In my case the issue may be tighter due to corporate rules.
In my wife's case, interns are also governed by the Union contract.

The phone example is interesting thought because that is about the only thing in both shops that interns ARE allowed to do alone.

 

[Colleen27]

No, you are not the odd man out. I agree what has been described would not be considered internships in my world.

However, it seems that different fields offer different types of "internships."

That is absolutely true, and even within a field there are better and worse internships. I'm just starting the coursework in my major and I've already been warned about a couple of "internships" to steer clear of because the companies use the internship program as a steady supply of free, temporary peons. Going into a competitive field, there is no shortage of students who would clean toilets at a newspaper or production company just to get a foot in the door and some do take advantage. But I suppose that's part of the value of having a mentor in your field and good relationships with professors and academic advisers - the voices of experience can help students avoid the bad internships.

 

[Hrhpd]

Nice gigs! What year of schooling are they in? I'm thinking they must be at least a junior or a senior?

Microsoft person is senior and has been summer interning at Microsoft since a sophomore.

The aerospace person is a junior. But started interning as a senior in high school for a senior project.