What ever happened to free speech?

[cybrarian]

This is insane. I hope he sues the mall big time.


NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.

According to the criminal complaint filed Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.

"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.

Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly.

"I told them the analogy was not good and I was then hauled off to night court where I was arraigned after pleading not guilty and released on my own recognizance," Downs told Reuters in a telephone interview.

Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.

Calls to the Guilderland police and district attorney, Anthony Cardona and to officials at the mall were not returned for comment.

Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17.

He could face up to a year in prison if convicted.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

the mall is right -- but stupid.

there have been numerous first amendment cases dealing with free speach issues at a mall. the cases uniformly hold that a mall private property, and political protests, picketing, handing out leaflets, etc., are activities which a mall may forbid. technically the mall can ask anyone to leave the premises for any nondiscriminatory reason.

this mall is located near a college campus. the State University of New York at Albany is actually located in Guilderland, where this mall is. the school is usally a hotbed of political protest, which may explain why the mall management is so sensitive to portests on its property. but I have no doubt that a lot of students will be uncomfortable shopping at the mall in Guilderland and will be taking the bus over to Latham to shop for awhile.

 

[Baboo]

I'm afraid that I don't understand. It says that he was just wearing the shirt. It doesn't say that he was protesting while wearing it. If the shirt is that objectionable, why are they allowing it to be sold at that mall? I would think that if you can't wear it there, they shouldn't sell it there.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Lol, it's like when malls enforce the 'no smoking rules'and kick out the smokers. It's privately owned, so they make the rules.

I'm not saying I agree with this rule, though. Maybe they need to post a clear cut standard, so everyone knows what is acceptable, lol!

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

wearing clothing with a slogan is a form of "speach" under the first amendment.

most malls are owned and operated by a management company. the management company serves as landlord to the stores, who lease space. the mall management may not have the right to tell a store it cannot sell the shirt in question, but the mall has the right to ask anyone to leave the mall at any time unless doing so would violate that person's civil rights.

the mall's actions have already resulted in a protest:

Group Protests N.Y. Peace T-Shirt Arrest

Email this story



By DAMITA CHAMBERS
Associated Press Writer

March 5, 2003, 2:55 PM EST


GUILDERLAND, N.Y. -- About 100 anti-war demonstrators marched through a mall Wednesday to protest the arrest of a shopper who wore a T-shirt that read "Peace on Earth" and "Give Peace a Chance."

"We just want to know what the policy is and why it's being randomly enforced," said Erin O'Brien, an organizer of the noontime rally at the Crossgates Mall.

Protest leaders were scheduled to meet with the mall's manager after the rally. Calls to mall officials were not immediately returned.

On Monday, Stephen Downs, 61, and his son were asked by mall security guards to remove their peace-slogan shirts or leave. Downs' 31-year-old son, Roger, took off his shirt. But Downs refused.

The guards called police, and he was charged with trespassing and pleaded innocent.

Police Chief James Murley said: "We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property."

The men had had the T-shirts made at a mall store and wore them while they shopped.
Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press
newsday article

 

[fklhou]

I saw both of these articles. They may have picked on the wrong person. It is going to be fun to see what happens here.

 

[aahmom1]

There has to be a LOT more to this story. Nobody gets arrested for wearing a "Give peace a chance" T-shirt. The person who wrote this story obviously got only one side of this story and I'm sure it was the criminal. He probably stole the shirt in the first place

 

[WillyJ]

Lovely. . . always comforting to see people who are so committed to bringing freedom and liberty to Iraq that they feel it necessary to slap anyone who has a different opinion into jail. . .


Don't these dimbulbs understand that turning America into a police-state filled with paranoia, fear, and loss of liberty is exactly what the terrorists hoped to accomplish???

The way it's going, they won't have to blow-up so much as another trash can too acomplish their goal; the govenment and idiots like that will do it for them. . .


Just curious Briar Rose. . . would the guy have a case if he could show the Mall allowed pro-war type shirts? In other words, is a mall allowed to pick and choose what kind of "protest" they're willing to allow in order to retain the legal right to do so; or do they have to allow either any or none at all?

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

I'm not sure, Willy. it's been awhile since I sat in Professor Friedman's constitutional law class. the "mall" cases were mostly decided in the Vietnam era and/or when the first anti-fur protestors marched in front of stores selling fur. and I'm not certain whether a claim of selective enforcement would pose a problem from a legal perspective. but my gut reaction is, I don't think the mall would have a legal problem if they displayed pro-war banners and refused to allow pro-peace displays.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

though I should point out that if he can prove the mal is really public space then he has a right to peaceful protest in that space. I don't think the courts have accepted that argument where the mall is provately owned, but he may have a cloroable claim if a political entity -- such as the town or county -- owns a share in the mall or if the mall was built with public funds.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

there's always another side to it --- foxnews



ALBANY, N.Y. — A man wearing a "Peace on Earth, Give Peace a Chance" T-shirt in a shopping mall says he was arrested because he refused to take the shirt off, but the mall says he was nabbed for bothering other shoppers.

Security guards approached Stephen Downs, 61, and his 31-year-old son, Roger, on Monday night after they were spotted wearing the T-shirts at Crossgates Mall in a suburb of Albany, N.Y., the men said.

The two said they were asked to remove the shirts made at a store there — or leave the mall. They refused.

The guards returned with a police officer who repeated the ultimatum. The son took his T-shirt off, but the father refused.

"'I said, 'All right then, arrest me if you have to,'" Downs said. "So that's what they did. They put the handcuffs on and took me away."

A statement released by the mall painted a different picture of what happened.

"Crossgates Mall security received a complaint regarding two individuals disrupting customers. The individuals were approached by security because of their actions and interference with other shoppers," the statement read.

"Their behavior, coupled with their clothing to express to others their personal views on world affairs, were disruptive of customers."

Downs pleaded innocent to the charges Monday night. The New York Civil Liberties Union said it would help with his case if asked.

Police Chief James Murley said his officers were just responding to a complaint by mall security.

"We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property," Murley said.

The mall said that as a private property, it has the court-approved right "to restrict actions and behaviors deemed inconsistent with its intended purpose."

Crossgates Mall's rules "strictly prohibit loitering, disorderly or disruptive conduct, harassment, offensive language, fighting or any illegal activity," the statement read. "The Mall will not tolerate violations of these regulations. In this instance, mall management, given the information provided to them, determined the customers in question were violating mall policy."

Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police. There were no arrests.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.