What do you want?

[JR6ooo4]

I'm easy... I just want a firmware upgrade for spot metering on my old XT.

Mikeeee

 

[Groucho]

The problem with the swivel LCD is that if you do make it bigger, you chew up real estate very quickly. Look at the back of the S5 - no buttons on the left side, only a few on the right, and the 4-way controller pushed right to the very edge of the body. I don't think a serious DSLR user would be satisfied with such an arrangement. Granted, a DSLR body is bigger, but I still think that you're inevitably going to lose too much room for the buttons you'll want.

As for your comments about the Pentaxes... Well, different strokes for different folks. Seriously - how often do you ever need faster than 3 fps continuous shooting or faster than 1/4000th shutter? (Assuming you're not a pro sports shooter.) IMHO, those are far more "on paper" things for the measurebators to fawn over than things that the average photographer really needs. The Nikon D80 that costs $150 more than the K10D does the same fps speed and fewer RAW (6 vs 9) or JPG (100 vs unlimited) files in a row and also tops out at 1/4000th second max shutter, but I don't hear those being brought up all the time as a deficiency of the camera.

For "big important" features, I think in-body image stabilization is a pretty huge one.

The "instantly change" ("Hyperprogram") is a very handy feature IMHO - basically, it means that you never need to spin the mode dial if you're going to stay in program, Av, or Sv mode. Leave it in program (with whichever line you've selected), and the instant you want to flip to Av or Sv, just spin the front or rear dial. On every other camera, you'll have to spin the mode dial (which probably means taking the camera away from your eye to look at the dial), then the appropriate front/rear dial, and spin it back when you're done (pressing the green button on the K10D returns to program mode) - that's one of those things that just makes it quicker and easier for the photographer. There's a bunch of such unique features, which is why the K10D got so much attention when announced, even in the C/N camps. Most are not earth-shaking but "gee, that's handy" kind of things. They had been asking photographers what they would like and they integrated many of the suggestions.

Does this mean that it's the best camera for everyone? Of course not. But that's why I believe that they made the choices that they did make, and hopefully it makes a little more sense to you after that.

There will be two new Pentax DSLRs later this year, at least one is almost guaranteed to be positioned above the K10D, and I'm going to guess that it's a safe bet that you'll get your faster shutter speed and fps with it, as well as most other features of the D200, for a bit less money than the Nikon. But that's just speculation at this point - the point is, the stuff you mention is stuff that is just not available on any sub-$1k camera. You can get a 30D with that fps and max shutter speed, for $300 more - that's 40% more expensive... and the D200 is more than twice the price. You have to keep price in perspective.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

The "instantly change" ("Hyperprogram") is a very handy feature IMHO - basically, it means that you never need to spin the mode dial if you're going to stay in program, Av, or Sv mode. Leave it in program (with whichever line you've selected), and the instant you want to flip to Av or Sv, just spin the front or rear dial. On every other camera, you'll have to spin the mode dial (which probably means taking the camera away from your eye to look at the dial), then the appropriate front/rear dial, and spin it back when you're done (pressing the green button on the K10D returns to program mode) - that's one of those things that just makes it quicker and easier for the photographer.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that in Program mode (the mode where the camera determines the aperture and shutter speed), you can override the camera and force a change to the aperture by using the rear dial or force a change to the shutter speed by using the front dial and in either case the camera changes the complimentary control to fix the exposure?

how often do you ever need faster than 3 fps continuous shooting or faster than 1/4000th shutter?

I don't think I've ever "set" a shutter speed over 1/2000. It'd be a very rare situation for me to need that much motion stopping capability. I have taken 1/8000 second shots before though. The situation is usually when I'm in very bright light and shooting very wide open to control DOF. My camera loses some dynamic range stepping down from ISO 100 to ISO 50, so I'd prefer to increase shutter speed first rather than drop ISO. It's not very common though.

High fps, on the other hand, is a big part of why I bought my camera and I don't shoot pro anything. There are two uses that I've found for it that come up a lot. The first use is catching "the moment." If you are trying to catch a precise moment (cannon blast, ball leaving a bat, golfer making contact with a ball, etc), your chances increase with your fps. Those things are critical to pro sports shooters, but they are also important to parents with kids in little league, soccer, ice skating, or anything else where they are moving around a lot.

The other case is "sequence" shots. There are situations where it is fun to have a whole series of shots showing on quick burst of action. I've done shots of people jumping off of cliffs, golfers swinging, the guy jumping off the roof at the motor sports show, and many others. I talked to a professional high school sports shooter (such people really do exist and boy do they hate it when DSLR'd amateurs show up) and he said that good sequence shots are best money makers.

 

[Groucho]

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that in Program mode (the mode where the camera determines the aperture and shutter speed), you can override the camera and force a change to the aperture by using the rear dial or force a change to the shutter speed by using the front dial and in either case the camera changes the complimentary control to fix the exposure?

That is absolutely correct as I understand it, however you can program which dial does which, of course (completely customizable for each mode.)

I don't think I've ever "set" a shutter speed over 1/2000. It'd be a very rare situation for me to need that much motion stopping capability. I have taken 1/8000 second shots before though. The situation is usually when I'm in very bright light and shooting very wide open to control DOF. My camera loses some dynamic range stepping down from ISO 100 to ISO 50, so I'd prefer to increase shutter speed first rather than drop ISO. It's not very common though.

High fps, on the other hand, is a big part of why I bought my camera and I don't shoot pro anything. There are two uses that I've found for it that come up a lot. The first use is catching "the moment." If you are trying to catch a precise moment (cannon blast, ball leaving a bat, golfer making contact with a ball, etc), your chances increase with your fps. Those things are critical to pro sports shooters, but they are also important to parents with kids in little league, soccer, ice skating, or anything else where they are moving around a lot.

I can understand the appeal of higher fps (although I do think that it's almost "cheating" by machine-gunning shots hoping for the perfect one, this is the same reason I still used my old pump-action paintball gun last time I played, when every else had semi-auto guns )... and I certainly agree about shutter speed. But again, I think Jann is being slightly unfair here, giving the D80 a free pass and perhaps forgetting just how affordable the K10D is compared to the competition - nobody offers 5 fps in a current model close to that price - and 8 fps or 10 fps is a long way off, monetarily speaking!

Doesn't matter, though, I still love ya, Jann.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I think Jann is being slightly unfair here

I think Jann's just trying to get your goat.

I do think that it's almost "cheating"

I cheat in any way possible to get my shot.

That is absolutely correct as I understand it, however you can program which dial does which, of course (completely customizable for each mode.)

I'm still a little confused. If the camera controls the exposure, don't both dials do the same thing? If you lower the shutter speed, it raises the f-stop. If you raise the f-stop, it lowers the shutter speed. I think I'm missing something.

 

[GrumpyOne]

I have to agree with Mark about getting the shot any way possible. The burst mode is one of the features I really like about my Oly. Being able to go out and get action shots and a lot of the players really liked getting copies of themselves stealing, shooting, etc. They aren't exactly high-rez since the 15 fps caps at 1.2MP but considering the available options it's extremely nice to have for personal and community use.

 

[Groucho]

I think Jann's just trying to get your goat.

Baaaaaaa!

I'm still a little confused. If the camera controls the exposure, don't both dials do the same thing? If you lower the shutter speed, it raises the f-stop. If you raise the f-stop, it lowers the shutter speed. I think I'm missing something.

Turning one of the dial puts it in full Av or Tv mode, depending on which dial you have set, not just make an adjustment to the current aperture/shutter selection. Just like turning the mode dial. Pressing the green button returns it to normal program mode.

Here's a clip from the PDF attached to the latest firmware notes for the K10D, these shots may help explain it.

Curiously enough, its twin, the Samsung GX-10, has uglier menus but more information (in the top pic, it actually shows the setting, not a number - the K10D expands it when you change it but not at a glance) and in the second pic, instead of Program Shift, there's ISO. It looks like the new Samsung firmware (just released) mostly duplicated the older K10D firmware, but adds one or two new things - currently you hold down the OK button and spin the dial to change ISO (during which it's displayed in the viewfinder and top LCD, like you want), I would guess that another K10D firmware will add the Samsung's functionality to the Pentax as well.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

OK, I think I kind of get the drift.

With my camera, there isn't a dedicated mode switch. I switch between P/Av/Tv/M/Bulb mode by pushing the mode button and turning the front dial. In M, the front dial controls shutter speed and the rear dial controls aperture. In P/Av/Tv, the front dial controls program shift, aperture, or shutter speed respectively while the rear dial controls exposure compensation.

The basic control philosophy is to have the major things that you need to switch all controlled by the main (front) wheel. You press one or two of three buttons and rotate the wheel. One button is for exposure mode, another for AF mode, and another for metering mode. There are combinations for ISO, drive speed (which includes timer), and bracketing. It's really confusing at first, but once you get use to it, it's quick.

I think I've read that the Mark III replaces the two button combos with single buttons that you press multiple times. It sounds strange to me, but I'll trust that it's an improvement.