What do you think school will be like in the fall? UPDATE page 29 for Mass.

[Colleen27]

Curious if you have people around you threatening to switch to actual homeschooling if school stays online for Fall? There is a lot of talk about that here and I wonder if the threat of loss of funding has schools pushing harder to find a way to reopen?

I don’t have it in me to actually homeschool, but this online isn’t working, so I understand where these parents are coming from.

Yes. Mostly only among families who already have a parent who stays home or expects to be able to work from home long-term, but it is certainly a conversation I've heard and had with quite a few people. The issue here is that online learning isn't feasible in a school district that is focused on equity but serves areas in which high speed internet isn't available, so the public school response to this point has been optional, ungraded learning packets. Some teachers have supplemented that with optional Zoom calls, some haven't, but no online elements of distance learning can be required or graded because of the students who lack home internet so there's basically no instruction going on. There's a lot of concern about whether or not they'll realistically be able to do any better for fall. It isn't like the district is going to miraculously become less rural or the internet companies are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to run their service lines to widely spaced farmhouses, so the sense is that until we can return to school more or less as usual, there won't be much learning going on. And that's prompting the parents who are able to homeschool to consider doing so (and has also prompted some to contact our private school about enrollment for fall, since we are doing online classes and proceeding with the curriculum mostly as planned).

We're a zero-oversight state for homeschooling too, so parents who want to make the change don't have to jump through a lot of regulatory hoops to do so.

i have'nt heard anything around us (washington state) but i don't see where this would really work to the parent's advantage. the laws here are such that if a parent opted to do 'homeschooling' as it's defined in our state law then it's not like they stop paying for state education. they would still pay for it via all the same taxes just like those of us with no kids in school pay. sure, the school districts would lose out on that kid count for funding but i suspect that they would crunch the numbers and ultimately argue (when things settle down financially for the state) that the per kid cost of attendance has increased and will offset any losses that way.

It isn't that the families save by homeschooling - they'll still be paying the same property taxes. But the school tax portion goes to the state and then is sent back to districts on a per-pupil basis, so declines in enrollment mean less money for the schools. And the per-student costs don't scale well, so that loss hurts. It costs just as much to heat a building for 200 students as for 220, each building needs a principal and a secretary regardless of enrollment, and it costs just as much to have a teacher with 32 students in the classroom as to have her teaching 28. My area has an aging population and an outflow of young people who never return after college, so this is a perennial problem and there is absolutely no benefit to the school when there are fewer kids. It seldom works out neatly enough to reduce staffing, and certainly won't right now with the need to distance in the classroom. So the state may win if parents choose homeschooling (or not - there's a for-profit online charter that is marketing very heavily in my area right now) but the local schools are the big losers.

 

[GreatLakes]

My MBA has been a combination of online and on campus since the beginning but all the on campus classes switched to online. I was already set to finish out everything except one class (my last one Summer 2021) online anyway so no real difference for me. My undergraduate was before online was offered but I have to say I really like the online classes. I don't feel like I learn any less than the on campus ones.

I still have two years before anything below graduate school matters to me. We do have a kid in daycare but even if they reopen tomorrow we plan to keep him home at least another month or two just to be safe.

 

[1GoldenSun]

Wouldn't the schools still get the funding if the child is "attending" virtually? Right now my middle school-aged son has to check in every morning with his homeroom class by "liking" an attendance post before he begins his work for the day. One day he forgot and his homeroom teacher emailed me and said she could see that he was submitting assignments but that he needed to "like" the attendance post so he could be officially counted present. I got the impression that this was for funding purposes, otherwise who cares if he "likes" the attendance post if he's doing his work.

Before quarantine, our county offered virtual school for those who want to school at home but without devising their own curriculum, etc. This was of course designed to be operated virtually, not thrown together overnight. This requires teachers, materials, and administration so I'm sure they receive per-pupil funding, but I wonder if it's the same amount as for students who attend brick and mortar schools.

My son will not want to wear a mask to school, so I may look into the virtual school. I would be able to oversee his studies. I am really happy with his current magnet school, though, and he got very lucky to win a seat there in the lottery. I'd prefer if maybe they could place cameras in the classrooms so those who want to could just follow along from home. I'd hate for him to lose his place at this school once this is all over and things go back to normal. He's just finishing up his first year there.

 

[kymom99]

You are scared and that's okay.

I really think now the news needs to start reporting ALL of the statistics, not just deaths and new cases.

If people can actually see the numbers of positives that did not need hospitalization, the number of positives vs the number of tests, the number of those hospitalized that were discharged - then people wouldn't be as scared anymore.

Every new virus has a surge of deaths in the beginning. Not to say we shouldn't have done what we did, still wear masks, still social distance be looking for vaccines, treatments etc., but it's also time to start looking to open up life again. And not waiting for a vaccine or successful treatment.

Our governor (KY) reports number ever in the hospital, currently in the hospital, ever in ICU and currently in the ICU. It does help to hear those stats.

 

[kymom99]

Heard on the national news today “this will be the darkest winter that we will experience.” Meaning to me that Covid will be much more deadly and virulent. As I read through this thread I really have to ponder this whole school issue. I realistically do not think that my kids are going back in Aug just to be sent back home FT by Oct 1st to be home bound learning. Our district is very tech savvy and each child has their own IPad or laptop that the school gives out. We went to all e learning within 1 week of being home. My kids were all expected to be online from 8-3 all day with zoom meetings. Grading did not stop until their last day of school yesterday. My high schooler took an AP exam online and turned in her last art assignment at 1157 pm. We already live a pretty low key life so this was not hard for us. We are very great full for amazing school system.

The thing right now is that resources are being given free for the time being. Like zoom for example. It’s a subscription service. They aren’t going to give it free indefinitely. Also in my area spectrum was giving free internet to kids who didn’t have access. But that had to stop sometime too. Our schools provide a lot for kids but the hard truth is their home resources aren’t all adequate.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Other posters. Have you heard from your school or area college/high school/elementary public or private where a chancellor or president or district superintendent has publicly come out and said, YES 100% we will have in person come Fall 2020?

Pittsburgh is the nearest city to me and I believe the news said that Pittsburgh Public Schools are planning to return to full time in person school next year. I believe that is because they really screwed up with the distance learning, it's a poor school district with a lot of students from families that could not access computers or internet to complete school work.

I work for a different school district than my kids attend and neither one has confirmed what they are doing for the fall, but they mentioned all possibilities are in play: in person full-time, in person part-time, cyber, or some hybrid of in person or cyber. It all depends on what happens over the summer, whether we ever open up our county or we lock down again, and whatever the governor decides to do--if he waives the 180-day requirements for districts I think they will mostly return to distance education again.

 

[lifesavacation]

Our governor (KY) reports number ever in the hospital, currently in the hospital, ever in ICU and currently in the ICU. It does help to hear those stats.

Our county publishes the current hospitalized rate and the current ICU rate. It’s been very reassuring to watch over time. Our county is around 500,000 people and only 7 are currently in the hospital and only 2 of those are in the ICU.

 

[spiders]

Curious if you have people around you threatening to switch to actual homeschooling if school stays online for Fall? There is a lot of talk about that here and I wonder if the threat of loss of funding has schools pushing harder to find a way to reopen?

I don’t have it in me to actually homeschool, but this online isn’t working, so I understand where these parents are coming from.

That's all a lot of talk with no bite from most. It's just not feasible for many, especially if both parents are working. My wife has a Ph.D and she was already a stay-at-home before this mess since they youngest isn't in school yet. We could make it work. But a lot of the people we know are both working. I don't see them homeschooling for any length of days beyond 1.

I want to see kids back in the classroom in the Fall, but am seeing a lot of pushback from teachers on social media. But if they are doing distance learning still, something has to change.

Nobody wants to go to work right now. I'm still going to work and I don't like it anymore than any of my coworkers. But I'm not about ready to advocate that I'm essentially not needed. You either go to work or understand that you may be advocating for your own position to be eliminated. If the data at the time says it's unsafe then it's unsafe but it's too early to make any decisions. Choose your battles wisely. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease and sometimes it just gets replaced.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

That's all a lot of talk with no bite from most. It's just not feasible for many, especially if both parents are working. My wife has a Ph.D and she was already a stay-at-home before this mess since they youngest isn't in school yet. We could make it work. But a lot of the people we know are both working. I don't see them homeschooling for any length of days beyond 1.



Nobody wants to go to work right now. I'm still going to work and I don't like it anymore than any of my coworkers. But I'm not about ready to advocate that I'm essentially not needed. You either go to work or understand that you may be advocating for your own position to be eliminated. If the data at the time says it's unsafe then it's unsafe but it's too early to make any decisions. Choose your battles wisely. The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease and sometimes it just gets replaced.

Don’t know if this a general you or to me specifically, but I’m not a teacher. I’m a parent who wants to see my kids back in school.

 

[spiders]

Don’t know if this a general you or to me specifically, but I’m not a teacher. I’m a parent who wants to see my kids back in school.

It was about your comment about teachers on social media saying they don’t want to go back.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Wouldn't the schools still get the funding if the child is "attending" virtually? Right now my middle school-aged son has to check in every morning with his homeroom class by "liking" an attendance post before he begins his work for the day. One day he forgot and his homeroom teacher emailed me and said she could see that he was submitting assignments but that he needed to "like" the attendance post so he could be officially counted present. I got the impression that this was for funding purposes, otherwise who cares if he "likes" the attendance post if he's doing his work.

Before quarantine, our county offered virtual school for those who want to school at home but without devising their own curriculum, etc. This was of course designed to be operated virtually, not thrown together overnight. This requires teachers, materials, and administration so I'm sure they receive per-pupil funding, but I wonder if it's the same amount as for students who attend brick and mortar schools.

My son will not want to wear a mask to school, so I may look into the virtual school. I would be able to oversee his studies. I am really happy with his current magnet school, though, and he got very lucky to win a seat there in the lottery. I'd prefer if maybe they could place cameras in the classrooms so those who want to could just follow along from home. I'd hate for him to lose his place at this school once this is all over and things go back to normal. He's just finishing up his first year there.

I am talking about actual homeschooling, not this distance learning for next year. And no, if a family leaves the school to actually homeschool, they school loses the ADA money. As @Colleen27 mentioned above, if enough parents go this direction, it can hurt schools and districts financially.

I think because we’re in a declared state of emergency, our governor is not making us make these days, so I believe the schools get their regular ADA money for this semester. It can’t be tied to attendance (right now) because YDD has weekly packets that we picked up at the start and I don’t think she’s even turning in. I am making her do them, but there is no accountability. DS’s teacher has taken on this distance learning and they have work that they turn in digitally, is graded and will count on their report cards (the go the same school). The high school is using work turned in as attendance. I know of my girls’ teachers has a weekly check in, but out of 12 teachers combined, it’s only the one.

 

[Colleen27]

That's all a lot of talk with no bite from most. It's just not feasible for many, especially if both parents are working. My wife has a Ph.D and she was already a stay-at-home before this mess since they youngest isn't in school yet. We could make it work. But a lot of the people we know are both working. I don't see them homeschooling for any length of days beyond 1.

While I think that is very much true in ordinary times, I think all bets are off for fall because it is highly unlikely that schools in many places will be operating normally enough to serve their usual function as child care. Here, we're talking about half-time attendance, either on an every-other-day or half-day basis, and there's talk about not offering transportation because of the impossibility of social distancing on a school bus. Under those conditions, one parent is going to have to be available pretty much all the time anyway so the time commitment is less of a barrier to other schooling choices that might be viewed as more rigorous at a time when public schools are having to do a lot of improvising on how get through the curriculum via distance and/or part-time learning.

 

[Primeval Princess]

While I think that is very much true in ordinary times, I think all bets are off for fall because it is highly unlikely that schools in many places will be operating normally enough to serve their usual function as child care. Here, we're talking about half-time attendance, either on an every-other-day or half-day basis, and there's talk about not offering transportation because of the impossibility of social distancing on a school bus. Under those conditions, one parent is going to have to be available pretty much all the time...

What you mentioned in bold is something that just isn't going to happen for a lot of kids, especially those from lower-income families where both parents really have to work just to get by, and in families led by a single working parent. There is a lot of talk about alternative schedules, but since they infringe so much on parents' time, I don't think they are going to actually happen in many places. Even in middle and upper class communities, parents want & sometimes need to get back to their normal schedules once the kids are back in school.

 

[barkley]

i still don't see how threatening to home school will make any district magically be able to reopen in the fall if the powers that be deem it to be a public health risk. sure, it will reduce funding but it could end up resulting in some savings if, like some of the districts we've lived where student populations have decreased, the schools are able to close and combine campuses (more often than not opting to close older buildings that cost more to operate and maintain). in that case it can end up biting the parents/kids in the tush when kids in the same family end up assigned to different schools on different academic calendars (happened in one district we lived in which generated a big influx into the private school).

i absolutely think districts need to get up to speed on some kind of distance learning model and i entirely sympathize with the limitations some families have w/internet access (i'm in the same boat-one provider only w/no plans or actual ability to strengthen or extend access) but people threatening to home school because the schools are not physically able to be open would be like me having threatened to do so b/c our schools had extended snow day closures-the schools had no control over the snow just as the schools have no control over covid.

p.s. how is home schooling, if the threat is followed through on for a school that remains closed next term going to provide any more socialization for a student or replace the 'in class experience'? i've known some spectacularly dedicated and successful home schoolers over the years but to achieve anything near a traditional classroom experience and semi similar socialization experience for their kids has entailed working hand in hand with other experienced home schoolers in shared learning, field trips, group sports/arts....all things that entail exactly the non social distancing that the schools are trying to protect against.

 

[Primeval Princess]

Don’t know if this a general you or to me specifically, but I’m not a teacher. I’m a parent who wants to see my kids back in school.

It was about your comment about teachers on social media saying they don’t want to go back.

Just fyi, I'm a teacher and am dying to go back to work. I'm still getting paid for distance learning, but I miss classroom teaching so much! And I'm far from alone in how I feel.

Social media is not an accurate barometer of how most people in any given profession feel. It skews young, and it skews in other ways, as well. I'll leave it at that.

 

[1GoldenSun]

I am talking about actual homeschooling, not this distance learning for next year. And no, if a family leaves the school to actually homeschool, they school loses the ADA money. As @Colleen27 mentioned above, if enough parents go this direction, it can hurt schools and districts financially.

I think because we’re in a declared state of emergency, our governor is not making us make these days, so I believe the schools get their regular ADA money for this semester. It can’t be tied to attendance (right now) because YDD has weekly packets that we picked up at the start and I don’t think she’s even turning in. I am making her do them, but there is no accountability. DS’s teacher has taken on this distance learning and they have work that they turn in digitally, is graded and will count on their report cards (the go the same school). The high school is using work turned in as attendance. I know of my girls’ teachers has a weekly check in, but out of 12 teachers combined, it’s only the one.

That makes sense. I would never in a million years be able to legitimately homeschool--as-in develop and teach a curriculum, so I could never actually homeschool for real. But as long as the work is established and I'm just making sure it gets done, answering the occasional question, and helping out a bit now and then I'm fine with remote learning going on vs making my son go back to school wearing a mask. I'm hoping that this will be an option for those who would prefer it, even if the schools fully open. But if the schools will lose funding in the fall for students who want to continue working from home I doubt they'll allow it.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

i still don't see how threatening to home school will make any district magically be able to reopen in the fall if the powers that be deem it to be a public health risk. sure, it will reduce funding but it could end up resulting in some savings if, like some of the districts we've lived where student populations have decreased, the schools are able to close and combine campuses (more often than not opting to close older buildings that cost more to operate and maintain). in that case it can end up biting the parents/kids in the tush when kids in the same family end up assigned to different schools on different academic calendars (happened in one district we lived in which generated a big influx into the private school).

i absolutely think districts need to get up to speed on some kind of distance learning model and i entirely sympathize with the limitations some families have w/internet access (i'm in the same boat-one provider only w/no plans or actual ability to strengthen or extend access) but people threatening to home school because the schools are not physically able to be open would be like me having threatened to do so b/c our schools had extended snow day closures-the schools had no control over the snow just as the schools have no control over covid.

p.s. how is home schooling, if the threat is followed through on for a school that remains closed next term going to provide any more socialization for a student or replace the 'in class experience'? i've known some spectacularly dedicated and successful home schoolers over the years but to achieve anything near a traditional classroom experience and semi similar socialization experience for their kids has entailed working hand in hand with other experienced home schoolers in shared learning, field trips, group sports/arts....all things that entail exactly the non social distancing that the schools are trying to protect against.

It doesn't make a district magically able to open. But at least in my state, once the Gov. declares it safe to open, it is still up to the districts how/when they do it. Our State Superintendent has already said that he believes schools will open in some hybrid form on their normal schedules, but that he will leave it up each district to make the choice for themselves. It would also require approval from both the teacher's union and that representing the classified staff. There are many moving parts. So in my area parents are really thinking about doing homeschooling full time over distance learning and/or some hybrid. But most are of the mindset of if our state gives the go ahead to reopen and our district still chooses to do 100% remote learning.

Nobody has said anything about it being more socialization. I'm talking strictly about academics. The academic needs of students are NOT being met right now. So if parents think a true homeschool curriculum can do that, they're doing it.

 

[Colleen27]

What you mentioned in bold is something that just isn't going to happen for a lot of kids, especially those from lower-income families where both parents really have to work just to get by, and in families led by a single working parent. There is a lot of talk about alternative schedules, but since they infringe so much on parents' time, I don't think they are going to actually happen in many places. Even in middle and upper class communities, parents want & sometimes need to get back to their normal schedules once the kids are back in school.

I agree. But as is often the case in our country, the people making the decisions don't seem to have a lot of empathy for those concerns. I think Cuomo's comments questioning why we even have school buildings anymore, with all the technology available to us, kind of exemplifies the mindset of those who will ultimately be making the decisions about what schools are allowed to do in the fall - either they don't have kids, or they have kids but have always been able to afford in-home care and are thinking the nanny can just supervise the schooling and get the kids back and forth. This is likely to further widen existing disparities in the quality of education available to children at different income levels in our country.

p.s. how is home schooling, if the threat is followed through on for a school that remains closed next term going to provide any more socialization for a student or replace the 'in class experience'? i've known some spectacularly dedicated and successful home schoolers over the years but to achieve anything near a traditional classroom experience and semi similar socialization experience for their kids has entailed working hand in hand with other experienced home schoolers in shared learning, field trips, group sports/arts....all things that entail exactly the non social distancing that the schools are trying to protect against.

I think the logic behind considering homeschooling for fall is that at least with homeschooling, the parent doing the teaching can ensure the child is getting through an age-appropriate curriculum. As I said before, many school districts in my area made the choice not to introduce any new content through this initial shutdown. So parents are seeing their kids getting only busywork (a friend of DD18's said her packet includes crossword puzzles. She's a senior in high school) or thrown-together online lessons that aren't even being graded, and there are no assurances that fall will be better. There's also no assurance, at this point, that public or private schools will involve any socialization either - we're being told to prepare for part time attendance with carefully spaced desks, no recess, lunch eaten at their desks, and strict rules against the kids socializing with one another. So the socialization factor is likely to be a wash, and the choice comes down to what the parents feel offers the better curriculum and learning experience.

And it isn't about pressuring the schools to open. I think pretty much everyone understands at this point that the choice might not even be up to the schools in many places; even our tiny private school is including the disclaimer with all of our plans for fall that it will depend on what the governor does and doesn't allow, and the public schools will have to deal with teachers' and support staff unions as well. But for parents, it is simply about getting through the next year in the manner that is least disruptive to the kids' educational trajectory, and I can't blame those who feel competent to homeschool for feeling like it is likely to better accomplish that right now. If my DD11 went to public school, I'd be leaning that way too.

 

[Primeval Princess]

I agree. But as is often the case in our country, the people making the decisions don't seem to have a lot of empathy for those concerns. I think Cuomo's comments questioning why we even have school buildings anymore, with all the technology available to us, kind of exemplifies the mindset of those who will ultimately be making the decisions about what schools are allowed to do in the fall - either they don't have kids, or they have kids but have always been able to afford in-home care and are thinking the nanny can just supervise the schooling and get the kids back and forth. This is likely to further widen existing disparities in the quality of education available to children at different income levels in our country.



I think the logic behind considering homeschooling for fall is that at least with homeschooling, the parent doing the teaching can ensure the child is getting through an age-appropriate curriculum. As I said before, many school districts in my area made the choice not to introduce any new content through this initial shutdown. So parents are seeing their kids getting only busywork (a friend of DD18's said her packet includes crossword puzzles. She's a senior in high school) or thrown-together online lessons that aren't even being graded, and there are no assurances that fall will be better. There's also no assurance, at this point, that public or private schools will involve any socialization either - we're being told to prepare for part time attendance with carefully spaced desks, no recess, lunch eaten at their desks, and strict rules against the kids socializing with one another. So the socialization factor is likely to be a wash, and the choice comes down to what the parents feel offers the better curriculum and learning experience.

And it isn't about pressuring the schools to open. I think pretty much everyone understands at this point that the choice might not even be up to the schools in many places; even our tiny private school is including the disclaimer with all of our plans for fall that it will depend on what the governor does and doesn't allow, and the public schools will have to deal with teachers' and support staff unions as well. But for parents, it is simply about getting through the next year in the manner that is least disruptive to the kids' educational trajectory, and I can't blame those who feel competent to homeschool for feeling like it is likely to better accomplish that right now. If my DD11 went to public school, I'd be leaning that way too.

Interesting. I think New York is a unique case, partly because NYC, unlike most of America, is genuinely in the midst of an acute health emergency due to the pandemic, and also due to the state's current political leadership, which is very oriented toward elite, urban ways of living, even though the much of the state is far from elite and urban.

My state of Texas is a whole different ballgame. Hospitals were never overwhelmed here, and infection & death rates are relatively low. We have no teacher unions, so that's not an issue for us in terms of reopening schools. Parents needing to get back to work really is a widely acknowedged issue here, including by the people in power.

But there is still fear here. Widespread fear, just like exists everywhere throughout the country, that is going to make reopening the schools more difficult than it would otherwise need to be. That might be one thing Texas and New York have in common.

 

[Colleen27]

Interesting. I think New York is a unique case, partly because NYC, unlike most of America, is genuinely in the midst of an acute health emergency due to the pandemic, and also due to the state's current political leadership, which is very oriented toward elite, urban ways of living, even though the much of the state is far from elite and urban.

My state of Texas is a whole different ballgame. Hospitals were never overwhelmed here, and infection & death rates are relatively low. We have no teacher unions, so that's not an issue for us in terms of reopening schools. Parents needing to get back to work really is a widely acknowedged issue here, including by the people in power.

But there is still fear here. Widespread fear, just like exists everywhere throughout the country, that is going to make reopening the schools more difficult than it would otherwise need to be. That might be one thing Texas and New York have in common.

I'm in Michigan, and because Detroit was really hard hit the whole state-level response has been oriented around the severity of conditions there. But much like NY, we're a big state and the conditions in most places couldn't be further from those in the Detroit metro. But even the acknowledgment of the hardships involved in online learning have been urban oriented - the setting up of mobile hotspots in high-poverty neighborhoods where many students don't have internet, for example. And because our hospitals were on the brink, if not entirely overwhelmed, avoiding a second wave that could cause those conditions again is the uppermost priority and all the consequences of measures taken to do so are being treated as necessary hardships.

I agree the fear is going to be the hardest thing to overcome. And everyone is afraid. Many parents are afraid to send the kids back, many teachers are afraid to go back themselves, our leaders are afraid of under-reacting and allowing the virus to get out of control again. That's going to be the hardest thing to overcome when it comes to reopening anything and will be especially acute when it comes to the schools.