What do you think about this statement?

[glitterkittyy]

I think it's safe to say that we have a difference of opinions. I find it offensive for people to say things like "I'll pray for you" when they know I'm an atheist. When they mean it to be offensive, I take umbrage at it. However, sometimes I know that they probably don't mean to be offensive so I don't take it as an insult. But that doesn't mean I like it in either case.

I take it that it's the same for you and god being called a myth. However, you have to realize that there are some of us who say it not to insult you, but it's because it's what we believe. You have to choose whether or not to be insulted by it. In either case, you do not have to like it.

 

[Goofyluver]

I am not projecting my beliefs onto anyone. I do not expect you to have the same belief as I do, or to change to your beliefs. You asked why it is insulting and I told you.

I said earlier that I guess you cannot understand unless you have a Christian relationship with God. Not judging you or saying you should have one, but I guess it is impossible to empathize with something of which you have no understanding.

I still don't get why, once you are told something is insulting, it is so much to ask for you to not use that term. I mean there are millions of words in the English language, are there no others to describe your belief? It certainly seems to me that it is those that insist on using the insulting terms that are hell bent on forcing their views on others.

You see these beliefs as a personal attack, apparently. If you truly understand that we all hold differing beliefs, then why do you choose to be offended by those that do not believe as you do? YOU see the terms as insulting. To me, these terms are merely descriptive of my beliefs. I could care less what others believe, and am secure enough in my own beliefs to understand that others opinions are just that...their opinions.

 

[bicker]

What are you saying? Sorry, it's me, the one who doesnt always understand what point you are making.

Let's make it explicit: Restate what you want people not to say, and specify what you think they should be happy to say instead?

 

[bicker]

No one is "insisting" on anything.

If you're not insisting, then ask once, and then let the issue drop. Otherwise, you are insisting.

I didn't know that asking for a bit of common courtesy would cause such an uproar.

I think the uproar stems from the insistence that you keep denying.

 

[luvsJack]

I think it's safe to say that we have a difference of opinions. I find it offensive for people to say things like "I'll pray for you" when they know I'm an atheist. When they mean it to be offensive, I take umbrage at it. However, sometimes I know that they probably don't mean to be offensive so I don't take it as an insult. But that doesn't mean I like it in either case.

I take it that it's the same for you and god being called a myth. However, you have to realize that there are some of us who say it not to insult you, but it's because it's what we believe. You have to choose whether or not to be insulted by it. In either case, you do not have to like it.

EXACTLY! That is exactly it. And I know there are those who post/say that God is a myth as a way of explaining what they believe, but there are those who do it as a way to belittle the belief of Christians and THAT makes it an insult.

I don't know that I will call being insulted a choice; my choice is in how I react. I have reacted by saying how I felt.

 

[luvsJack]

If you're not insisting, then ask once, and then let the issue drop. Otherwise, you are insisting.

I think the uproar stems from the insistence that you keep denying.

So, if I respond to what someone says after I ask once, I am insisting? Or is it that I should not respond at all?

 

[luvsJack]

You see these beliefs as a personal attack, apparently. If you truly understand that we all hold differing beliefs, then why do you choose to be offended by those that do not believe as you do? YOU see the terms as insulting. To me, these terms are merely descriptive of my beliefs. I could care less what others believe, and am secure enough in my own beliefs to understand that others opinions are just that...their opinions.

Wrong, I do not see it as a personal attack. And for the third time, I am not offended by those that believe differently than I do. What you or anyone else believes does not insult me or offend me in the least. How could I be offended by your beliefs? It is the words that are chosen that are offensive.

I am surrounded by those who believe differently. My own son is atheist/agnostic. He has friends who are atheist, and friends who are wiccans. He even has one friend who is part of a group of vampires! (not sure that qualifies as a religion, but whatever). I am not insulted by any of them. I am able to hold a conversation with all of them about religion and no one is insulted or offended by anything that is said.

Yes, yes, I know you are secure in your own beliefs. I am glad for you. I am secure in my beliefs too. In fact I am so secure that I do not have to keep saying something that I know is insulting to someone else about their beliefs.

Yes, I see the terms as insulting. I am the one. Not you, me. Me because I am the one who is Christian. Pretty much stands to reason that you would not find the terms insulting. As I have said over and over--I will accept it as something you cannot possibly understand.

 

[Goofyluver]

Wrong, I do not see it as a personal attack. And for the third time, I am not offended by those that believe differently than I do. What you or anyone else believes does not insult me or offend me in the least. How could I be offended by your beliefs? It is the words that are chosen that are offensive.

I am surrounded by those who believe differently. My own son is atheist/agnostic. He has friends who are atheist, and friends who are wiccans. He even has one friend who is part of a group of vampires! (not sure that qualifies as a religion, but whatever). I am not insulted by any of them. I am able to hold a conversation with all of them about religion and no one is insulted or offended by anything that is said.

Yes, yes, I know you are secure in your own beliefs. I am glad for you. I am secure in my beliefs too. In fact I am so secure that I do not have to keep saying something that I know is insulting to someone else about their beliefs.

Yes, I see the terms as insulting. I am the one. Not you, me. Me because I am the one who is Christian. Pretty much stands to reason that you would not find the terms insulting. As I have said over and over--I will accept it as something you cannot possibly understand.

Vampires???

And you find it strange that some of us equate these views to mythology and fairy tales?

Vampires???

And you're right. I don't understand being so bothered by others beliefs that I would insist that person compromise their belief system for my benefit. When will the religious folk realize this is not a personal attack? This has nothin' to do with anything personal.

 

[luvsJack]

Vampires???

And you find it strange that some of us equate these views to mythology and fairy tales?

Vampires???

And you're right. I don't understand being so bothered by others beliefs that I would insist that person compromise their belief system for my benefit. When will the religious folk realize this is not a personal attack? This has nothin' to do with anything personal.

yes, the kid is part of what describes itself as a "coven of vampires". I have no idea what the deal is. He is probably the only one I have not actually asked about his beliefs (although we have had other deep conversations). I'm a bit afraid to ! He's a sweet kid (he's 24) but apparently a bit confused. Ds is friends with him but refuses to tolerate the vampire stuff. That's something he does away from DS and their regular group of friends.

Look, I do not, in any way mean to ask anyone to compromise their belief for my or anyone else's benefit. I am a firm believer in the freedom of religion and your freedom to believe as you choose. I do not say to you "I will pray for you" because like a pp said its insulting to someone who does not believe. I only asked for the same consideration. With that, I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

[Goofyluver]

yes, the kid is part of what describes itself as a "coven of vampires". I have no idea what the deal is. He is probably the only one I have not actually asked about his beliefs (although we have had other deep conversations). I'm a bit afraid to ! He's a sweet kid (he's 24) but apparently a bit confused. Ds is friends with him but refuses to tolerate the vampire stuff. That's something he does away from DS and their regular group of friends.

Look, I do not, in any way mean to ask anyone to compromise their belief for my or anyone else's benefit. I am a firm believer in the freedom of religion and your freedom to believe as you choose. I do not say to you "I will pray for you" because like a pp said its insulting to someone who does not believe. I only asked for the same consideration. With that, I guess we must agree to disagree.

Vampires gather in covens?

Here's the thing...I'm not askin' anyone to compromise their beliefs or change their language for my benefit. That's the consideration I give to others, and I expect the same in return. Therein lies the disagreement.

 

[luvsJack]

Vampires gather in covens?

Here's the thing...I'm not askin' anyone to compromise their beliefs or change their language for my benefit. That's the consideration I give to others, and I expect the same in return. Therein lies the disagreement.

that was my first question too. I asked ds, "first, I thought it was a coven of witches not vampires. and second, do you mean to tell me there is enough to call it a coven?" His only answer was "that's what he said" as he shook his head and laughed. Who knows??

 

[bicker]

So, if I respond to what someone says after I ask once, I am insisting?

16 pages later.

 

[glitterkittyy]

EXACTLY! That is exactly it. And I know there are those who post/say that God is a myth as a way of explaining what they believe, but there are those who do it as a way to belittle the belief of Christians and THAT makes it an insult.

I don't know that I will call being insulted a choice; my choice is in how I react. I have reacted by saying how I felt.

Well here is the difference as I see it. I don't like it when someone says they'll pray for me in a way that implies insult (and I've seen it done recently on this board), but I don't expect them to stop. I can only control myself and my reaction. I cannot control anyone else nor should I expect to.

However, it's also about how you perceive the comments. One cannot assume (and I'm not saying you do) that whenever someone calls god a fairy tale, myth, etc, that it is said with the intent to offend. If a christian is asked if they believe, you will often get more than a "yes". If an atheist is asked if they believe, you will often get more than a "no". It's human nature to give the "why". So if you see something more than no, please don't assume it was said with malice because it is an accurate statement to say that god, to us, is nothing more than a fairy tale. It's not meant to be hurtful. It's simply the truth to US.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

Very well put Glitterkittyy! This is the whole point in a nutshell.

 

[ols386]

Well here is the difference as I see it. I don't like it when someone says they'll pray for me in a way that implies insult (and I've seen it done recently on this board), but I don't expect them to stop. I can only control myself and my reaction. I cannot control anyone else nor should I expect to.

However, it's also about how you perceive the comments. One cannot assume (and I'm not saying you do) that whenever someone calls god a fairy tale, myth, etc, that it is said with the intent to offend. If a christian is asked if they believe, you will often get more than a "yes". If an atheist is asked if they believe, you will often get more than a "no". It's human nature to give the "why". So if you see something more than no, please don't assume it was said with malice because it is an accurate statement to say that god, to us, is nothing more than a fairy tale. It's not meant to be hurtful. It's simply the truth to US.

If I know that you may be offended if I say "I'll pray for you", then I certainly would NOT say that to you. If I know you would prefer that I don't say that, then it's disrespectful for me to go ahead and say it anyway.

If someone knows upfront that I find it offensive for them to refer to my God as a fairy tale, then I would appreciate it if they did not say that. If they say it anyway, then that's disrespectful towards me.

 

[ols386]

Let's make it explicit: Restate what you want people not to say, and specify what you think they should be happy to say instead?

I'm stating that I would appreciate it if people don't refer to my God as a "fairy tale". That' what I've been saying all along.

If someone doesn't realize that I don't appreciate that term, and they use it, then that's a different story. But if I make it clear that I find that term offensive, then why can't someone refrain from using it when talking with me.

If I know that someone doesn't appreciate me saying to them "I'll pray for you", for example, then I wouldn't say that to them.

Bottom line is, if you say something to someone (anyone), knowing that they find that particular term offensive, that's DISRESPECTFUL to that person.

 

[glitterkittyy]

If I know that you may be offended if I say "I'll pray for you", then I certainly would NOT say that to you. If I know you would prefer that I don't say that, then it's disrespectful for me to go ahead and say it anyway.

If someone knows upfront that I find it offensive for them to refer to my God as a fairy tale, then I would appreciate it if they did not say that. If they say it anyway, then that's disrespectful towards me.

But the thing is, no one said it to you. They answered the OP's question. You just happened to take offense to something that wasn't directed to you personally.

 

[glitterkittyy]

I'm stating that I would appreciate it if people don't refer to my God as a "fairy tale". That' what I've been saying all along.

If someone doesn't realize that I don't appreciate that term, and they use it, then that's a different story. But if I make it clear that I find that term offensive, then why can't someone refrain from using it when talking with me.

If I know that someone doesn't appreciate me saying to them "I'll pray for you", for example, then I wouldn't say that to them.

Bottom line is, if you say something to someone (anyone), knowing that they find that particular term offensive, that's DISRESPECTFUL to that person.

But honestly, how would anyone know that you were going to show up in a thread? We can't answer with how we feel because it may offend someone who shows up later? And I'm supposed to keep track of who is offended by what?

I can only answer honestly and explain the best way I know how. Only you can control whether or not to be offended by the answer that was directed towards no one and had no intent to offend. I don't expect anyone to remember that I dislike the phrase "I'll pray for you". It's up to me to decide if it was said with intent to offend or not, and it's up to me to control my reaction to that perception. I either say something or don't, but I don't expect anyone else to change their behavior. That's like herding cats, impossible.

 

[ols386]

But the thing is, no one said it to you. They answered the OP's question. You just happened to take offense to something that wasn't directed to you personally.

And in that post the term fairy tale was mentioned, and I replied to that particular post, and the discussion went from there. So am I not allowed to respond to a post that I take exception to? Everyone else does, why can't I?

 

[ols386]

But honestly, how would anyone know that you were going to show up in a thread? We can't answer with how we feel because it may offend someone who shows up later? And I'm supposed to keep track of who is offended by what?

I can only answer honestly and explain the best way I know how. Only you can control whether or not to be offended by the answer that was directed towards no one and had no intent to offend. I don't expect anyone to remember that I dislike the phrase "I'll pray for you". It's up to me to decide if it was said with intent to offend or not, and it's up to me to control my reaction to that perception. I either say something or don't, but I don't expect anyone else to change their behavior. That's like herding cats, impossible.

My POINT is, if you and I are in a PRIVATE conversation, and if you know that I find it offensive for you to refer to my God as a fairy tale, then would you continue to use that term?

Maybe I'm not communicating well on this, and I'm sorry if I'm not...but can you answer that one specific question for me?