What do you think about this statement?

[Tiggernut_jadie]

If I know that you may be offended if I say "I'll pray for you", then I certainly would NOT say that to you. If I know you would prefer that I don't say that, then it's disrespectful for me to go ahead and say it anyway.

If someone knows upfront that I find it offensive for them to refer to my God as a fairy tale, then I would appreciate it if they did not say that. If they say it anyway, then that's disrespectful towards me.

Perhaps you could point out where someone on this thread said "ols386 I believe your God to be a fairy tale!"?

Some people find 'fairy tale' offensive whilst they're ok with myth whilst others don't like either phrase. As has been already pointed out these chosen phrases were not aimed at any poster individually - it is the individuals who have taken the use of the words personally when they were actually used in a general sense.

If someone offers to pray for people on a thread I just do this.......and move along. At the end of the day some people are okay with being prayed for when they are are a non-believer and others are offended by it - unless it is aimed at ME personally I just shrug and forget about it. Can those of you who don't like 'our' beliefs not do the same?

 

[glitterkittyy]

My POINT is, if you and I are in a PRIVATE conversation, and if you know that I find it offensive for you to refer to my God as a fairy tale, then would you continue to use that term?

Maybe I'm not communicating well on this, and I'm sorry if I'm not...but can you answer that one specific question for me?

If I were in a private in-person conversation with a friend who is a christian, and I knew it was offensive to them, no I would not say it. If it were not a friend, I probably would. If it were my in-laws, I definitely would in hopes they'd stop talking to me.

 

[Tiggernut_jadie]

If I were in a private in-person conversation with a friend who is a christian, and I knew it was offensive to them, no I would not say it. If it were not a friend, I probably would. If it were my in-laws, I definitely would in hopes they'd stop talking to me.

 

[glitterkittyy]

If someone offers to pray for people on a thread I just do this.......and move along. At the end of the day some people are okay with being prayed for when they are are a non-believer and others are offended by it - unless it is aimed at ME personally I just shrug and forget about it. Can those of you who don't like 'our' beliefs not do the same?

Well said! I have had people, in person, find out that I'm an atheist and come out with the "I'll pray for you" nonsense. That's when I'm offended (though that might be too strong a word...annoyed might be better), but I still pretty much just roll my eyes. If that helps them to sleep at night, go for it.

 

[ols386]

Perhaps you could point out where someone on this thread said "ols386 I believe your God to be a fairy tale!"?

Some people find 'fairy tale' offensive whilst they're ok with myth whilst others don't like either phrase. As has been already pointed out these chosen phrases were not aimed at any poster individually - it is the individuals who have taken the use of the words personally when they were actually used in a general sense.

If someone offers to pray for people on a thread I just do this.......and move along. At the end of the day some people are okay with being prayed for when they are are a non-believer and others are offended by it - unless it is aimed at ME personally I just shrug and forget about it. Can those of you who don't like 'our' beliefs not do the same?

No one said directly to me that they thought my God was a fairy tale. I thought we were having a discussion about being in a conversation with someone, in a one-on-one situation, and using the term fairy tale, knowing that the person you were speaking with didn't appreciate that term.

 

[ols386]

If I were in a private in-person conversation with a friend who is a christian, and I knew it was offensive to them, no I would not say it. If it were not a friend, I probably would. If it were my in-laws, I definitely would in hopes they'd stop talking to me.

Ahhhhh! That's exactly what I was asking. Thank you for answering my question.

Ok, now I can sleep tonight.
Sorry about your in-laws.

 

[luvsJack]

16 pages later.

Oh, so I was the only one posting? I said what I felt and answered the responses. I have been told I am insecure, misunderstood the intention, etc. So I should have just said, "ok" and not responded? I suppose then that I can safely assume that you would not respond to any of those statements?



My goodness you non-religious folks like to have the last word! I say "that is it, exactly how I feel" and you tell me that "nope! not the same" I say we should agree to disagree and you tell me where the disagreement is coming from.

I know what we are disagreeing on: 4 or 5 words.

Since I "choose" to be insulted, are you saying that it should be ok to start saying certain racial slurs toward people of that race? I mean they can just "choose" not to be insulted. Right? And yes, it is exactly the same thing. Here's the thing: I would not do that because I know the words are insulting to them. If someone told me the word "orange" was insulting to them, I would not use that word. I would find another to decribe the color or the fruit. Its called respecting the feelings of others.

I am not making a choice to be insulted. The words are insulting to any Christian. I am making a choice in how I react. You can spin it anyway you want and the result is the same. It is insulting and you are choosing to continue to be inulting.

You tell me how you are only obiligated to be respectful of your own beliefs and only have to be true to yourself and your beliefs. But I am supposed to just say that it is perfectly ok to walk all over mine. Not happening. My beliefs are just as important as yours.

You want respect for your beliefs that God does not exist? Then show respect to my belief that He does.

If you cannot explain "why" you do not believe without using the same 4 or 5 words over and over, maybe you need to buy a dictionary. The problem is you are choosing to be insulting because it does not matter to you.

If you are so all fired secure in what you believe, why the insistance of saying something you KNOW is offensive to others? Does it make you feel superior? It makes you look childish and imature, IMHO.

I will say one more time. We should agree to disagree. I will not suddenly decide it is not insulting and you are not going to change the words you choose to use. So be it.

 

[ols386]

16 pages later.

What's your point?

 

[glitterkittyy]

My goodness you non-religious folks like to have the last word! I say "that is it, exactly how I feel" and you tell me that "nope! not the same" I say we should agree to disagree and you tell me where the disagreement is coming from.

That's a broad stroke on that brush you've got there. I do not have to have the last word. I just like to make sure I'm understood. So that doesn't apply to all "non-religious folks".

Since I "choose" to be insulted, are you saying that it should be ok to start saying certain racial slurs toward people of that race? I mean they can just "choose" not to be insulted. Right? And yes, it is exactly the same thing. Here's the thing: I would not do that because I know the words are insulting to them. If someone told me the word "orange" was insulting to them, I would not use that word. I would find another to decribe the color or the fruit. Its called respecting the feelings of others.

As much as you say it is, it's not the same thing. A race is not a belief. A belief is debatable. Race is not.

I am not making a choice to be insulted. The words are insulting to any Christian. I am making a choice in how I react. You can spin it anyway you want and the result is the same. It is insulting and you are choosing to continue to be inulting.

It's an honest statement of our belief. Sorry if it offends you, but it's the truth to us.

You tell me how you are only obiligated to be respectful of your own beliefs and only have to be true to yourself and your beliefs. But I am supposed to just say that it is perfectly ok to walk all over mine. Not happening. My beliefs are just as important as yours.

You want respect for your beliefs that God does not exist? Then show respect to my belief that He does.

I don't think any of us "non-religious folks" asked for you to respect our beliefs. I know I don't expect it. I only expect that you support my right to believe or not. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you cannot explain "why" you do not believe without using the same 4 or 5 words over and over, maybe you need to buy a dictionary. The problem is you are choosing to be insulting because it does not matter to you.

Well I could say the same for christians describing why they do believe. But in any case, no I don't care if someone on a message board is offended by how I phrase my disbelief because I didn't intend it to offend. As long as the OP gets an honest answer, it should be good enough.

If you are so all fired secure in what you believe, why the insistance of saying something you KNOW is offensive to others? Does it make you feel superior? It makes you look childish and imature, IMHO.

Because it's honest. You'd rather we didn't say it, okay I get that. But we will continue to do so because it is accurate.

I will say one more time. We should agree to disagree. I will not suddenly decide it is not insulting and you are not going to change the words you choose to use. So be it.

Okay by me.

 

[ols386]

If you're not insisting, then ask once, and then let the issue drop. Otherwise, you are insisting.

I think the uproar stems from the insistence that you keep denying.

Oh c'mon. I've read many of your posts, and you certainly like to continue making your point when someone disagrees with you. We all do, including me.

 

[glitterkittyy]

And I wanted to add that my goal here was not to argue with either of you. I just wanted to see if I could clarify some things. I have no issue with you and have enjoyed the interaction.

Was that me trying to have the last word again? lol

 

[ols386]

And I wanted to add that my goal here was not to argue with either of you. I just wanted to see if I could clarify some things. I have no issue with you and have enjoyed the interaction.

Was that me trying to have the last word again? lol

Well, I like to get the last word in to because I'm always right

 

[GeorgeG]

Well, I like to get the last word in to because I'm always right

No, I'm always right and that's why I intend to be King!

 

[luvsJack]

Just to clarify, race and a belief are not the same but the feeling of insult is the same.

And if somone continues to use the insulting words after being told it is insulting then the intention is clear. And there are many, many posts that have been very clear in their intention. Not saying yours, but many.



And, yes we "religious folks" like to have the last word too.

 

[ols386]

No, I'm always right and that's why I intend to be King!

Should we bow down to you?

 

[glitterkittyy]

No, I'm always right and that's why I intend to be King!

It's good to be the king!

 

[bicker]

Well here is the difference as I see it. I don't like it when someone says they'll pray for me in a way that implies insult (and I've seen it done recently on this board), but I don't expect them to stop.

I think it goes beyond implication though. There are conditions by which a reasonable person can be expected to understand that saying "I'll pray for you" is offensive, even if there is no direct intent to insult. And generally, those conditions are the same conditions that prompt people, who are likely to say such a thing, to say such a thing. So effectively, if prayer was not directly solicited by the target of the prayer, I rarely see cases where someone says "I'll pray for you" where it isn't either a direct insult or indirect offense.

There is a big difference though between "I'll pray for you" and what we're talking about int this thread, i.e., the assertion that certain things are myths. In a discussion, different perspectives are expected. So if an assertion is made "X is true because (for example) the Bible says so," then a counter-assertion, "The Bible is not a valid premise for an assertion of fact because it is a myth." How does "I'll pray for you" constitute a substantive support for any assertion? It isn't part of any discussion of issues.

This works both ways, though: Just jumping into a thread and telling someone that their beliefs are myths, without the context of those beliefs being used as justification for actions or foundation for other assertions, is also inappropriate.

It's human nature to give the "why".

And in a substantive online discussion, not doing so is sound foundation for dismissing the assertion. I can get away with that with regard to technical stuff, like software, and televisions, because most folks in need of assistance are readily willing to regard anyone willing to put themselves forward as an expert as such, but when it comes to beliefs and values, we each reserve the status of expert to ourselves and only grant it to others if we happen to agree with them.

 

[bicker]

... specify what you think they should be happy to say instead?

I'm stating that I would appreciate it if people don't refer to my God as a "fairy tale". That' what I've been saying all along.

Yup, I knew that. However, that wasn't the entire question, and the part you didn't provide a reply for is the whole point of the message you were asking me for clarification of.

So again, please specify what you think they should be happy to say instead?

 

[bicker]

Oh, so I was the only one posting?

You claimed you weren't being insistent. No one else did.

So I should have just said, "ok" and not responded?

If it meant as little to you as you tried to imply, ayup. However, don't worry: It was obvious that you weren't being truthful about that.

I suppose then that I can safely assume that you would not respond to any of those statements?

Why would you apply your claimed priorities onto me like that?

My goodness you non-religious folks ...

I'm religious.

Perhaps you'd like to rephrase?

What's your point?

That he was claiming he wasn't insisting on anything. That obviously isn't the case.

 

[ols386]

Yup, I knew that. However, that wasn't the entire question, and the part you didn't provide a reply for is the whole point of the message you were asking me for clarification of.

So again, please specify what you think they should be happy to say instead?

Instead of using the term fairy tale, they could just simply use the word God.