What do you think about this statement?

[SydneyBristow]

Just curious, what translation are you quoting Isaiah 34:7 from?

Isaiah 34:7 (New International Version)

7 And the wild oxen will fall with them,
the bull calves and the great bulls.
Their land will be drenched with blood,
and the dust will be soaked with fat.

Isaiah 34:7 (New Living Translation)


7 Even men as strong as wild oxen will die—
the young men alongside the veterans.
The land will be soaked with blood
and the soil enriched with fat.

Those are two translations I have at home and neither say anything about unicorns.

I'll go play on biblegateway.com and see what the others say.....

ETA- found it-

Isaiah 34:7 (King James Version)

7And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

 

[wall*e2008]

The thing to remember is that the Bible was written in a few languages and translated into English. I cannot read the old languages so I must read the translated one. It is possible that the word that was translated into Unicorn did not have an exact translation and that was the best the translator could do.

For example in the 10 Commandments most know is as "Thou shalt not kill." According to Rabbis that translation is incorrect. It should be "Thous shalt not murder." Two very different meanings.

In the second I can take your life if you are attacking me and trying to murder me. If I used the first translation I would either have to just let you murder me or I could defend myself and then break one of the 10 Commandments.

 

[perla75]

Just curious, what translation are you quoting Isaiah 34:7 from?

Isaiah 34:7 (New International Version)

7 And the wild oxen will fall with them,
the bull calves and the great bulls.
Their land will be drenched with blood,
and the dust will be soaked with fat.

Isaiah 34:7 (New Living Translation)


7 Even men as strong as wild oxen will die—
the young men alongside the veterans.
The land will be soaked with blood
and the soil enriched with fat.

Those are two translations I have at home and neither say anything about unicorns.

I'll go play on biblegateway.com and see what the others say.....

It's listed as "unicorn" in a few, but one of them is the King James version.

 

[daisax]

See, you'd think God would be more strict about the copyediting and translation if we're supposed to accept the Bible literally. Because unicorns and oxen are two very different animals.

If the music publishers can shut down Napster, you'd think God could get His Word out without any variation whatsoever.

 

[SydneyBristow]

It's listed as "unicorn" in a few, but one of them is the King James version.

I found it before and edited my post above. Thanks!

 

[wall*e2008]

See, you'd think God would be more strict about the copyediting and translation if we're supposed to accept the Bible literally. Because unicorns and oxen are two very different animals.

If the music publishers can shut down Napster, you'd think God could get His Word out without any variation whatsoever.

This is exactly why I see it as inspired by God but not actually written by God.

 

[daisax]

This is exactly why I see it as inspired by God but not actually written by God.

Agreed. Or at least written by men seeking to be inspired by God.

 

[smartestnumber5]

The kid may have a future as a metaphysician!

A friend of mine was talking to his son today about the Devil & Hell (his son brought it up) & he said to his son:

"The only true way to get rid of the Devil & avoid going to hell is to simply not believe in it"

What do you think about this?

I'm a die-hard atheist, and I don't believe in either hell or the devil. But I think the statement is a) false and b) epistemologically confused.

If the a devil/hell exist in reality--as a real being and a real place where people's souls (which also are real objects of existence) then it doesn't much matter what anybody believes about them. They either exist or they don't exist. Each of us is either correct or incorrect in our beliefs about whether they exist or not.

That said, I would have said something like the following to the child is "There is absolutely no evidence that the devil or hell exists as a real being/real place. Therefore, you can put this story in the same box you put the stories about the Boogeyman and the Loch Ness Monster and unicorns and such. The chance that any of these things exist is amazingly tiny. There's no reason to worry about any of it."

 

[daisax]

Remember War Games?

"The only way to win is... not to play."

 

[hdnmickey]

"What do you think about this statement?"

Reminds me of the kind of thing that you only see in Looney Tunes. Like cartoons can fly because they don't believe in gravity.

 

[islandmum]

I think Scientologists are people. I respect them as people. They can believe whatever they want. That doesn't make them right. If I thought they were right, I'd be a Scientologist.



.

Its just a shame so many religious followers (from all religions) use the cover of their religion to castigate and form judgements about many various groups of people and condemn them as wrong and as sinners treating them with no repect as they live their lives differently. Thats where my respect for them stops immediately.

I can see you are not in this group at all, you have your beliefs but from your posts you are totally respectful of people choosing different paths from those you agree with. I can never understand paths some may take, and pretty much disagree with it - but I wouldnt say they are bad, wrong, or sinners for doing so - its just that I wont be living my life like that.

 

[Mikelly1221]

The thing to remember is that the Bible was written in a few languages and translated into English. I cannot read the old languages so I must read the translated one. It is possible that the word that was translated into Unicorn did not have an exact translation and that was the best the translator could do.

For example in the 10 Commandments most know is as "Thou shalt not kill." According to Rabbis that translation is incorrect. It should be "Thous shalt not murder." Two very different meanings.

In the second I can take your life if you are attacking me and trying to murder me. If I used the first translation I would either have to just let you murder me or I could defend myself and then break one of the 10 Commandments.

Yes. I know in our denomination and probably in many others, our pastors have to study both Hebrew and Greek, the languages of the Old Testament and New Testament respectively. I enjoy when our pastor takes a word or two of scripture in English & tells us what it says in the original language-always it makes the text come more alive.

See, you'd think God would be more strict about the copyediting and translation if we're supposed to accept the Bible literally. Because unicorns and oxen are two very different animals.

If the music publishers can shut down Napster, you'd think God could get His Word out without any variation whatsoever.

Great point. The book "The Case for Christ" was written by Lee Strobel, an athiest journalist who set out to prove the Bible false and ended up a Christian. The 1st section of the book deals with the authenticity of the Bible (specifically the New Testament)-it's called "Examining the Record". The reason why I mention this is that the book is much better than I am in explaining these things!

This is exactly why I see it as inspired by God but not actually written by God.

When my kids ask who wrote the Bible, I do fall back on the catechism answer.."Chosen men wrote the Bible by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."

I'm a die-hard atheist, and I don't believe in either hell or the devil. But I think the statement is a) false and b) epistemologically confused.

If the a devil/hell exist in reality--as a real being and a real place where people's souls (which also are real objects of existence) then it doesn't much matter what anybody believes about them. They either exist or they don't exist. Each of us is either correct or incorrect in our beliefs about whether they exist or not.
That said, I would have said something like the following to the child is "There is absolutely no evidence that the devil or hell exists as a real being/real place. Therefore, you can put this story in the same box you put the stories about the Boogeyman and the Loch Ness Monster and unicorns and such. The chance that any of these things exist is amazingly tiny. There's no reason to worry about any of it."

I agree with the bolded statement of yours 100%.

 

[Bluestars]

A friend of mine was talking to his son today about the Devil & Hell (his son brought it up) & he said to his son:

"The only true way to get rid of the Devil & avoid going to hell is to simply not believe in it"

What do you think about this?

I think you have a very intelligent friend.

 

[Goofyluver]

That said, I would have said something like the following to the child is "There is absolutely no evidence that the devil or hell exists as a real being/real place. Therefore, you can put this story in the same box you put the stories about the Boogeyman and the Loch Ness Monster and unicorns and such. The chance that any of these things exist is amazingly tiny. There's no reason to worry about any of it."

My DS and I had a similar discussion after he had a spirited discussion with a friend. The above was essentially my explanation to him.

 

[Mikelly1221]

Its just a shame so many religious followers (from all religions) use the cover of their religion to castigate and form judgements about many various groups of people and condemn them as wrong and as sinners treating them with no repect as they live their lives differently. Thats where my respect for them stops immediately.

I can see you are not in this group at all, you have your beliefs but from your posts you are totally respectful of people choosing different paths from those you agree with. I can never understand paths some may take, and pretty much disagree with it - but I wouldnt say they are bad, wrong, or sinners for doing so - its just that I wont be living my life like that.

Thank you for your words. It's easy to put people in groups and condemn the groups. It's hard when you meet actual people. That's what happened to me in my younger years, and it really changed my POV. It was a good thing. Christ saw people, saw their needs and met them. He's done that for me, he's doing that for me. He didn't compromise, but he met people where they were, with compassion. I want to be like that!

I do not compromise my beliefs, nor will I apologize for them. But I don't feel any moral high ground from people who believe differently. We're all people with the same needs before God. And I think it's pretty hard to ask people to read the Bible if I'm bashing them in the head with it!

Anyway, thanks for listening to me-I'm trying to type, think deeply and watch TV all at the same time!

 

[edwardsfire]

Sounds like he is clueless, it is very clear how you get into heaven or hell.
To not believe.. is a good start "down".

 

[GeorgeG]

If you don't believe in something, it does not exist for you. It's as simple as that. The devil, hell, the tooth fairy, etc., only exist to those who believe in them. It's all a non-issue for the rest of us.

The comment this man made to his son is just a practical way of looking at things. Even president Obama has acknowledged non-believers, twice.

 

[DawnM]

I think I would need to know more background. What does the father believe about the devil and hell? My guess is that his belief, whatever it is, is simply being passed down. If the father does have some sort of strong religious belief, I would like to know where he got that idea (according to his religious beliefs.)

Dawn

 

[KikiFan]

I just feel compelled to point out that the single most important difference between Scientology and other religions. Scientology was established in modern times by a man on record as saying that (and I'm paraphrasing) "the best way to become rich was to invent a religion" Which sort of leads me to think there just might not be an thetons.

As someone who does not believe in the devil (or hell) I applaud your friend OP. He's a smart man.

 

[SereneOne]

I just feel compelled to point out that the single most important difference between Scientology and other religions. Scientology was established in modern times by a man on record as saying that (and I'm paraphrasing) "the best way to become rich was to invent a religion" Which sort of leads me to think there just might not be an thetons.

As someone who does not believe in the devil (or hell) I applaud your friend OP. He's a smart man.

So those that do believe are dumb men? I will be sure to tell my daughter's cardiologist, heart surgeon, neurosurgeon, etc., several who attend my church what stupid men they are.