What do you do with people that cut in line to meet up with group?

[xipotec]

Epic!

 

[rdearth]

I think you getting way too extreme here. Maybe few people will get upset for the rest of their vacation and maybe do everything in their power to bring cutter down or there is no justice, but nobody here falls in such category.
Feeling strong about something does not mean you are obsessive, that is unreasonable to say as this suggests that the one pointing the problem is wrong unlike the one who actually causing problem.

I'm not pointing out anyone in particular on this board. I'm saying that if something like a person holding a space in line for someone to return in an amusement park REALLY gets someone's hackles up, then that person that gets their hackles up should really analyze why they feel that way in that situation.

It's not a right or wrong issue, it's an issue of what makes that upset person feel that way and what they can personally do to make peace with it.

There are lots of unfair things that happen to people, there are lots of rulebreakers that get away with stuff, there are lots of rude people running around. But the very specific question is, why does the act of someone holding a space in line bother certain people so much?

I think for those people that really get upset about it, whether they conscencely realize it or not, it's primarily because what they perceive as line cutting causes a feeling of disorder and chaos in their lives. And I would guess that any kind of disorder or shake up to the standard system bothers them quite a bit more than it does most other people.

I don't think getting one's hackles up in this kind of situation is necessarily a wrong way to feel. It's just how some people are naturally wired. It's when the reaction to the feeling is rude or confrontational that it turns into a different problem.

We can all improve in the arena of being cool, being nice, being polite, and being thoughtful. Celebrating ideas on how to get people back for some offense that they might not have even done is not going in the right direction.

 

[minnie mum]

Epic!

What? The length of this thread or the ******** drinking game last night?? (Blanked out the word- it's too early in the morning for shots)

 

[KellyNY]

I'm not pointing out anyone in particular on this board. I'm saying that if something like a person holding a space in line for someone to return in an amusement park REALLY gets someone's hackles up, then that person that gets their hackles up should really analyze why they feel that way in that situation.

It's not a right or wrong issue, it's an issue of what makes that upset person feel that way and what they can personally do to make peace with it.

There are lots of unfair things that happen to people, there are lots of rulebreakers that get away with stuff, there are lots of rude people running around. But the very specific question is, why does the act of someone holding a space in line bother certain people so much?

I think for those people that really get upset about it, whether they conscencely realize it or not, it's primarily because what they perceive as line cutting causes a feeling of disorder and chaos in their lives. And I would guess that any kind of disorder or shake up to the standard system bothers them quite a bit more than it does most other people.

I don't think getting one's hackles up in this kind of situation is necessarily a wrong way to feel. It's just how some people are naturally wired. It's when the reaction to the feeling is rude or confrontational that it turns into a different problem.

We can all improve in the arena of being cool, being nice, being polite, and being thoughtful. Celebrating ideas on how to get people back for some offense that they might not have even done is not going in the right direction.

Well, it is not really how they see line should work, Disney does have very specific rules, which are the same in outside world, but does not enforce them for whatever reason. Why people get upset is because line concept is one of the fundamental rules in society, it is basically how you should act in terms of others. Does not mean you have to bring cutter down or consider vacation ruined, no, that is extreme. However getting upset for few minutes does not mean it disturbs your life or there is something wrong with you. I also believe that majority of us do not bother with cutters in parks because most of them are polite and we want to be polite and nice in return, it is a natural desire to help others in society, also fundamental.
I think you would see more boiling on board then in real life because some cutters will just admit here that they do not care about anyone and are more important then others but they will never let it out on person they want to let them pass. So...

 

[KellyNY]

What? The length of this thread or the ******** drinking game last night?? (Blanked out the word- it's too early in the morning for shots)

We'll continue at night... are you in?

 

[rdearth]

Well, it is not really how they see line should work, Disney does have very specific rules, which are the same in outside world, but does not enforce them for whatever reason. Why people get upset is because line concept is one of the fundamental rules in society, it is basically how you should act in terms of others. Does not mean you have to bring cutter down or consider vacation ruined, no, that is extreme. However getting upset for few minutes does not mean it disturbs your life or there is something wrong with you. I also believe that majority of us do not bother with cutters in parks because most of them are polite and we want to be polite and nice in return, it is a natural desire to help others in society, also fundamental.
I think you would see more boiling on board then in real life because some cutters will just admit here that they do not care about anyone and are more important then others but they will never let it out on person they want to let them pass. So...

I agree with all the above.

As I've gotten older, I've also realized that a little disorder and anarchy in life here and there is not always a bad thing.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Most of this argument seems to be about line holding more than line cutting. I really don't see any scenario where line holding is going to lead to societal decay on a massive scale.

The thing is, it irritates you and people may share in that irritation. I get that. Personally, I wouldn't try to work my way back through a line because I'm a pretty big guy and I don't want to say "Excuse me" a thousand times.

But, why raise your blood pressure, probably shorten your life, and probably not be a pleasure for your loved ones to be around on vacation over something that really only affects about, I don't know, 30 seconds of your life? The idea that you or anybody else that says something is somehow saving or standing up for society is just silly and actually kind of self righteously arrogant.

No what is arrogant is someone who says I will stand in a line while the rest of my family have fun somewhere else as our time is important yours isn't.

 

[AndreaA]

Okay, I don't know how to double quote, but just wanted to address this since it was directed at me, and then I think I'm done here since the thread is just running in circles, with the most militant against cutting unable to even think about considering the other side.

I posted the following:
Originally Posted by AndreaA
It just occurred to me that rejoining family is even LESS of a issue than I was thinking, in light of the construction of most WDW rides. Generally there are cars, ships, honeypots, whatever, with spaces for a certain number of people. If my family reaches the ride and I'm held up, it's not as if someone ahead of me is going to be allowed to ride with them! The space will remain empty, or, at most, someone from a single rider line (which don't even exist at most rides) might be allowed to join them.

So yeah, those who refuse to let families reconnect are only hurting people out of some perverted and misplaced sense of "theme park justice". They aren't even helping themselves.

And someone replied:

What???? This makes no sense. If you are not there and your family chooses to wait for you, then the Smiths will ride then the Jones etc until you finally catch up. No one is going to force them to ride with someone else. They ask how many in your party and fill in accordingly.

My response is, that the poster clearly isn't envisioning the same scenario I am. I haven't been in a while, so excuse me if my ride stats are off, but, for example, suppose each honeypot on Pooh holds four people. My family has four people. I am in line with them and have to run out for some reason. They are close to the front of the line. If I am not allowed back through, and my family reaches the front, they will go on a honeypot and there will be one empty seat. If I had been allowed through, I would be filling that seat. The empty seat doesn't benefit anyone who blocked me from going through, it only hurts me and my family who have now missed out on riding together.

So yeah, in most cases line blockers are just making families ride with empty seats, which benefits no one.

 

[KellyNY]

Okay, I don't know how to double quote, but just wanted to address this since it was directed at me, and then I think I'm done here since the thread is just running in circles, with the most militant against cutting unable to even think about considering the other side.

I posted the following:
Originally Posted by AndreaA
It just occurred to me that rejoining family is even LESS of a issue than I was thinking, in light of the construction of most WDW rides. Generally there are cars, ships, honeypots, whatever, with spaces for a certain number of people. If my family reaches the ride and I'm held up, it's not as if someone ahead of me is going to be allowed to ride with them! The space will remain empty, or, at most, someone from a single rider line (which don't even exist at most rides) might be allowed to join them.

So yeah, those who refuse to let families reconnect are only hurting people out of some perverted and misplaced sense of "theme park justice". They aren't even helping themselves.

And someone replied:

What???? This makes no sense. If you are not there and your family chooses to wait for you, then the Smiths will ride then the Jones etc until you finally catch up. No one is going to force them to ride with someone else. They ask how many in your party and fill in accordingly.

My response is, that the poster clearly isn't envisioning the same scenario I am. I haven't been in a while, so excuse me if my ride stats are off, but, for example, suppose each honeypot on Pooh holds four people. My family has four people. I am in line with them and have to run out for some reason. They are close to the front of the line. If I am not allowed back through, and my family reaches the front, they will go on a honeypot and there will be one empty seat. If I had been allowed through, I would be filling that seat. The empty seat doesn't benefit anyone who blocked me from going through, it only hurts me and my family who have now missed out on riding together.

So yeah, in most cases line blockers are just making families ride with empty seats, which benefits no one.

What about you being 5th person for example or all the rides which actually call for a single rider without single rider line. You go with a very narrow example here and this is not how it works. When you enter line you do not reserve cart, you reserve a spot, it is up to CM to fill or not and during busy times or sometimes just because, they will.

BTW, to use multiple quotes, click the one with quotes("), next to quote(word) in each post you want to get quote from, last post you want to use click Quote and then just delete all you do not need.

 

[minnie mum]

We'll continue at night... are you in?

On a Friday night, with no need to get up early in the morning? OF COURSE!

 

[KellyNY]

On a Friday night, with no need to get up early in the morning? OF COURSE!

Great! I hope Rip will join us, not sure about Smidgy, I think she got a handover but she brought it on herself, she started the game.

 

[GBBTomorrow]

Okay, I don't know how to double quote, but just wanted to address this since it was directed at me, and then I think I'm done here since the thread is just running in circles, with the most militant against cutting unable to even think about considering the other side.

I posted the following:
Originally Posted by AndreaA
It just occurred to me that rejoining family is even LESS of a issue than I was thinking, in light of the construction of most WDW rides. Generally there are cars, ships, honeypots, whatever, with spaces for a certain number of people. If my family reaches the ride and I'm held up, it's not as if someone ahead of me is going to be allowed to ride with them! The space will remain empty, or, at most, someone from a single rider line (which don't even exist at most rides) might be allowed to join them.

So yeah, those who refuse to let families reconnect are only hurting people out of some perverted and misplaced sense of "theme park justice". They aren't even helping themselves.

And someone replied:

What???? This makes no sense. If you are not there and your family chooses to wait for you, then the Smiths will ride then the Jones etc until you finally catch up. No one is going to force them to ride with someone else. They ask how many in your party and fill in accordingly.

My response is, that the poster clearly isn't envisioning the same scenario I am. I haven't been in a while, so excuse me if my ride stats are off, but, for example, suppose each honeypot on Pooh holds four people. My family has four people. I am in line with them and have to run out for some reason. They are close to the front of the line. If I am not allowed back through, and my family reaches the front, they will go on a honeypot and there will be one empty seat. If I had been allowed through, I would be filling that seat. The empty seat doesn't benefit anyone who blocked me from going through, it only hurts me and my family who have now missed out on riding together.

So yeah, in most cases line blockers are just making families ride with empty seats, which benefits no one.

Why wouldn't your family wait for you if they got to the front of the line before you did? That's the part I don't get.

 

[AndreaA]

What about you being 5th person for example or all the rides which actually call for a single rider without single rider line. You go with a very narrow example here and this is not how it works. When you enter line you do not reserve cart, you reserve a spot, it is up to CM to fill or not and during busy times or sometimes just because, they will.

BTW, to use multiple quotes, click the one with quotes("), next to quote(word) in each post you want to get quote from, last post you want to use click Quote and then just delete all you do not need.

It's really not a narrow example. There are very few rides that have a single rider line, and even fewer with single person seating. All that I know of are either double or quad. Peak season and CMs cramming non-family members into the same car would be the narrower examples, since those times are very, very limited.

In any event, like I said, it seems unlikely that anything will change any minds.

 

[ttintagel]

Annoyed /= "upset."
Moment of annoyance /= "letting your vacation be ruined."

My main motivation for not letting people cut ahead of me is not so much that those particular people at that particular moment are the sum total of the problem. It's to prevent it becoming a generally tolerated practice, which would render waiting your turn meaningless and create a culture where the most aggressive people get in first and everybody else can just lump it. Also, I depend on those projected wait times, and they can't be accurately calculated if each person in line really represents an unknown number of people who will join in later. That doesn't mean I think that's the way it is now at this moment, but if everybody just shrugs it off all the time, I don't see how it'll be avoided in the future.

 

[osugal]

I've been going to WDW since it opened and I can't remember a time this has ever even happened. I'm sure it has at some point but I can't recall it. So, I'm not sure how big of a problem it really is. I just can't imagine letting something like this bother me so much when I'm vacation. When I'm there I have no desire to be the line police. If something really outrageous happened I'd let a CM know and then let them do their job. I'm there to have fun with my family.

 

[KellyNY]

It's really not a narrow example. There are very few rides that have a single rider line, and even fewer with single person seating. All that I know of are either double or quad. Peak season and CMs cramming non-family members into the same car would be the narrower examples, since those times are very, very limited.

In any event, like I said, it seems unlikely that anything will change any minds.

Busy times at Disney are not rare, infact there are not so many slow times. However it is not even an issue, are you suggesting that every time someone joins the family we have to figure out how many people are out there, if it is even or odd number, if CM will call single rider or not and if you think it is OK for you why it would not be OK for 5th person or maybe a single rider to begin with to just walk there. What you suggesting is exception to be done to you for whatever reason, why. You try to complicate the system with different variables and scenarios when simple solution is to just enter together as it suppose to be.

 

[Mkrop]

Okay, I don't know how to double quote, but just wanted to address this since it was directed at me, and then I think I'm done here since the thread is just running in circles, with the most militant against cutting unable to even think about considering the other side.

I posted the following:
Originally Posted by AndreaA
It just occurred to me that rejoining family is even LESS of a issue than I was thinking, in light of the construction of most WDW rides. Generally there are cars, ships, honeypots, whatever, with spaces for a certain number of people. If my family reaches the ride and I'm held up, it's not as if someone ahead of me is going to be allowed to ride with them! The space will remain empty, or, at most, someone from a single rider line (which don't even exist at most rides) might be allowed to join them.

So yeah, those who refuse to let families reconnect are only hurting people out of some perverted and misplaced sense of "theme park justice". They aren't even helping themselves.

And someone replied:

What???? This makes no sense. If you are not there and your family chooses to wait for you, then the Smiths will ride then the Jones etc until you finally catch up. No one is going to force them to ride with someone else. They ask how many in your party and fill in accordingly.

My response is, that the poster clearly isn't envisioning the same scenario I am. I haven't been in a while, so excuse me if my ride stats are off, but, for example, suppose each honeypot on Pooh holds four people. My family has four people. I am in line with them and have to run out for some reason. They are close to the front of the line. If I am not allowed back through, and my family reaches the front, they will go on a honeypot and there will be one empty seat. If I had been allowed through, I would be filling that seat. The empty seat doesn't benefit anyone who blocked me from going through, it only hurts me and my family who have now missed out on riding together.

So yeah, in most cases line blockers are just making families ride with empty seats, which benefits no one.

This would only apply to a family of four in your example, so I guess if you are a family of 4, go ahead and cut the line.

Once again why cant your family wait off to the side and ride as soon as you catch up with them by following the natural progression of the line?

Your scenario would not work on rides like Soarin, POTC, the Great Movie Ride etc where they are trying to fill the space. If your family of 4 is not all together, than they can fill in the rows with a variety of different combos.

 

[rdearth]

No what is arrogant is someone who says I will stand in a line while the rest of my family have fun somewhere else as our time is important yours isn't.

In the rare instances that this actually happens, how much time are they really costing you? Unless they're getting into a show that only holds so many people and their cutting prevents you from getting in, it's really not that much.

A lot of this discussion bothers me because I was a victim of some snide remarks and actions from parkgoers that thought they knew what was happening when in reality they didn't have a clue.

We (Myself, Wife, 2 year old daughter, and my mom (Nana)) were first in line at DHS Back Lot Tour. The CM asked if one of us wanted to participate in the pre-show action sequence with the boat. We thought it would be fun if Nana did it, so off she went. Then in the couple of minutes that we waited, the 2 y/o decided to have a meltdown. We tried to calm her, but it was no use.

So, as the rows filled up and my daughter, who can scream louder than anyone on this planet, carried on, we had to decide if we should keep trying to calm her, leave the line, or tough it out. The problem was Nana wasn't with us and there's no way to tell her where to meet up with us or where we went.

So, we tried to tough it out and calm her for as long as possible until finally giving up. As we walked out, some jerk said something like "finally" and a few others decided to start sarcastically clapping and cheering that we were leaving. It was all I could do to not jump the rail and get in his face, but it was more important to calm my daughter and to stay a guest in good standing at Disney.

Now, I'm sure those idiots think they were in the right and probably tell anyone who will listen how annoying it is that parents "drag their screaming children" through attractions with no consideration of the other guests, but there is no way any of them knew the entire situation that we were in.

The point is, I'm not saying people haven't blatantly cut lines or jobbed the queue system in some fashion, but there is no doubt in my mind that many times things are not as sinister or as rude as they might appear on the surface. And, in my mind, that shred of uncertainty is enough to just let it go.

 

[AndreaA]

This would only apply to a family of four in your example, so I guess if you are a family of 4, go ahead and cut the line.

Once again why cant your family wait off to the side and ride as soon as you catch up with them by following the natural progression of the line?

Your scenario would not work on rides like Soarin, POTC, the Great Movie Ride etc where they are trying to fill the space. If your family of 4 is not all together, than they can fill in the rows with a variety of different combos.

I ink it would actually work in most situations, regardless of group number, actually, but I'm not going to go into random examples here.

As for why not having people wait for the separated member, again, that would usually take a lot more time. So now a family is essentially waiting in the line twice. I would consider that unfair.

And people seem to think that those posting in favor of letting people pass cheerfully are only selfishly talking about ourselves, when that seems far from the truth. I would happily let a mom and kid or dad or some combination thereof pass me to meet up with their group. I've certainly let people pass me in various lines throughout my life. It simply isn't a big deal and is part of being a generous member of a society. We help each other out. Over forty years of operation and I don't see this being a problem at Disney, so I'm not sure why anyone thinks it will suddenly become one.

 

[Mkrop]

I ink it would actually work in most situations, regardless of group number, actually, but I'm not going to go into random examples here.

As for why not having people wait for the separated member, again, that would usually take a lot more time. So now a family is essentially waiting in the line twice. I would consider that unfair.

And people seem to think that those posting in favor of letting people pass cheerfully are only selfishly talking about ourselves, when that seems far from the truth. I would happily let a mom and kid or dad or some combination thereof pass me to meet up with their group. I've certainly let people pass me in various lines throughout my life. It simply isn't a big deal and is part of being a generous member of a society. We help each other out. Over forty years of operation and I don't see this being a problem at Disney, so I'm not sure why anyone thinks it will suddenly become one.

Sigh no once again what is unfair is that you dont think your family or any other family who does this is wrong, it is the my time is more valuable than your time issue. Yes you may have to wait longer, but that if what happens if someone has to leave the line. And once again it is unfair to all those people who dont have someone to hold the line, who cant get out of line like you can bc you have a placeholder. Can they just reenter the line if they need a sudden bathroom run, NO, they have to wait in line longer, WHY does this not apply to your family as well, This is what I can not for the life of me comprehend. And are you willing to let others pass, if so how many, why is one or two acceptable, and not 5, 10, 15 etc. Maybe that group needed a bathroom break too and they left their placeholder, so it should be ok since it would be ok for your family of 4.

I think you really need to think beyond how this is just affecting your family of 4.

If it were not a problem, it would not have been stated on park maps, it would not have been the response to emails from WDW when people inquired. You would not have threads from people who said a bunch of teens, tour groupers etc jump the line, or pretended to "meet" up with their group, when there was no group to be found.