What Can She Do?

[shortbun]

I'm with the group who says SIL should stay out of it. Nothing good could come from further involvement on her part. Does she know she could be charged with kidnapping? She/SIL has crossed the line here and it is becoming obvious that her son's problems dealing with things must stem from the fact that his mother is always controlling parts of his life. OP-I'd stay so far away from these people, they wouldn't recognize me the next time we met on the street. Seriously, your SIL says her DIL is nuts? She's pretty crazy herself. Well, that's my opinion from reading your posts.

 

[Andtototoo]

No, but a grandparent charging in and basically stealing the child sends up huge red flags for me. If you had said "my sister suggested he come stay with her for a while and they all agreed it was for the best" it would have been totally different than basically saying she pretended she was was taking him on a sleepover and then said they couldn't have him back.

She is the grandparent, not the parent. Grandparents offer help and support, which is not the same as being in charge of the situation.

The parents need to grow up in this situation, but it won't happen by someone else swooping in and making all their decisions for them.

ITA.

And FTR -- my parents were in a similar (but not identical situation) when I was 5. They had a volatile marriage with many fights -- plates of food flying, furniture thrown, etc. After one particularly heinous fight when I was 5, my mother called her MIL to show her what her "perfect" son had done to our house. When my grandmother (and aunt) got there, my grandmother was shocked by her son's vandalism of his own home, buttoned him up against the wall, gave him what for. Meanwhile, my aunt was comforting me and my grandmother saw this, told my parents she was taking me up to her house until they got their act together because no child should be exposed to this behavior and did they have any problems with that? My parents were shamed by her call out and agreed I would go with her and my aunt.

In that case, my grandmother was quite clear about what she was doing and why AND she also asked their permission to take me. There was no subterfuge, no lies.

IMO, taking that child without stating her intentions was a serious lie and one that could permanently damage relationships. That behavior could also cost HER big time if the dil and son divorce and the DIL can point to the grandmother lying and taking a child under false pretenses and threatening to keep the child. THAT behavior could cost her visitation.

 

[We_Love_Disney]

OP, sound like Dysfunction Junction with sil's family. Your sister-in-law is way to invested in her son's life. He is an adult, whether or not he acts it. Her sticking her nose into his life is a breeding ground for further dysfunction. Cut the apron strings, now! She had no business taking the 4 year old out of his home unless she was invited to do so and then only for a night. These two people need to learn how to deal with events while still protecting their child. Whether or not there may or may not be a child out there is really none of her business. Has she contacted each and every woman her son slept with to ensure there isn't any other potential children out there? Ignorance is bliss.

SIL needs to let it go, MYOB, back off, etc.

 

[Jennasis]

Forget the baby-daddy..your SIL needs to "man up". The child was not in any danger. He was not being neglected. They were fighting. SIL needs to mind her business. The fact that she is so distraught over the possibility of not being involved in the "possible" new baby's life tells me that he claws are so deeply entrenched in her son/grandchild's life (hello? kidnapping!) that SHE isn't thinking clearly.

The whole lot of them need serious professional help.

 

[wvjules]

"Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here. "

Wow, talk about dysfunctional. You should sell this to Days of Our Lives or something.

 

[Agri]

Well, that explains a lot. "DN" doesn't need to man up, they all need counseling. His wife isn't the only crazy one, they're all nuts. His mom is swooping in to help him take care of his responsibilities, so why should he 'man up'? She kidnaps the grandkid (and yes, that's exactly what this is/was) when he wasn't in danger. Unless they all live in a one room apartment, they have plenty of room to discuss what is going on away from him. They're all playing games with each other and none of them are acting their age. Maybe the wife's original 'issues' were due to her MIL in the first place.

If I were the possible baby mama, I'd already have moved out of the damn state to get away from this mess. Would you trust that baby daddy and his nutso mommy would not be involved in your child's life if you kept in contact with his family? Nope.

My advice now is to completely stay out of the situation. They're nuts and you don't want to get sucked into that drama (I don't think ).

 

[luvsJack]

I really do not know why she made the decision to go get her grandson, but I think she felt that with all the stuff going on, she was protecting him.

At this point he is the only one she is really concerned with. According to sil, the mother is pretty much been curled up in a ball and crying for at least three days so she hasn't actually been taking care of the kid. She stays in the bedroom and I guess DN is doing the child care. (I really don't know for sure, but am guessing on this. Its the only thing that really makes sense to explain how they are keeping it all away from him)

I do agree that she should have done it differently but I don't necessarily agree with this not being her business. They came to her and made the information known to her and this is/are her grandchild/ren. If I thought ds and dil were not doing right by dgd, I would never hesitate to say something nor would her other grandmother. She comes first and foremost. Now, I wouldn't take off with her but I would have my say.

Again, Dn has been taking care of his responsiblities until his marriage sort of blew up on him. His mom did not go get her grandson to take her son's responsibilities, she did it to protect the child. Yes, they need to be able to deal with the problem and take care of their child but right now everyone is so upset and so angry, and if they can't do both; is it fair for the child to suffer?

She may be totally wrong, I don't know, but I think her heart was in the right place.

You have to understand this woman has always had a wonderful relationship with her kids, her son-in-law, another dil and her grandchildren. (not so much with this one dil). Normally when they come to her with problems she just says "deal with it" or "you need to talk to each other, not to me". She is not one to get involved at all. This has all just been a big upset and a bigger mess.

Has she contacted everyone her son has had sex with? No, of course not that would be stupid. But this is someone who stated "I am pregnant with his child" and then when hammered on the phone by the wife and friend, recanted her statement (whether out of needing to tell the truth or desperation to make them go away, who knows). She is beside herself thinking there may be a grandchild that she won't get the chance to know. Ignorance is NOT bliss in the situation.

All I can really do is offer hugs and an ear to listen.

 

[We_Love_Disney]

If I thought ds and dil were not doing right by dgd, I would never hesitate to say something nor would her other grandmother. She comes first and foremost.

Wow! Careful, that is very dangerous road to be on. What you think is not doing right and what your children think isn't doing right could be as different as night and day. You have no business messing in your grown children's lives.

Yes, they need to be able to deal with the problem and take care of their child but right now everyone is so upset and so angry, and if they can't do both; is it fair for the child to suffer?

Suffer? Stuff happens, and the child wasn't being victimized or traumatized. So Mommy was crying, maybe crying mommy and or needs to wake up and take care of their child. Unless she knows for sure that the child is irreparably traumatized the child should stay with the parents unless asked otherwise.

She may be totally wrong, I don't know, but I think her heart was in the right place.

Maybe her heart was in the right place, but she has no business acting on any of it. This is actually none of her concern. Three adults made some dumb decisions and they have to deal with them.

You have to understand this woman has always had a wonderful relationship with her kids, her son-in-law, another dil and her grandchildren. (not so much with this one dil). Normally when they come to her with problems she just says "deal with it" or "you need to talk to each other, not to me". She is not one to get involved at all. This has all just been a big upset and a bigger mess.

Well obviously this time she got in and over her head. She needs to back out, way out.

Has she contacted everyone her son has had sex with? No, of course not that would be stupid. But this is someone who stated "I am pregnant with his child" and then when hammered on the phone by the wife and friend, recanted her statement (whether out of needing to tell the truth or desperation to make them go away, who knows). She is beside herself thinking there may be a grandchild that she won't get the chance to know. Ignorance is NOT bliss in the situation.

On the outside chance that this woman is pregnant and your sister in law misses out on knowing the child, well there is actually nothing she can do about it. It isn't the worst thing that could happen. This woman in probably wishing she never met this man or the family and is running scared. There is no way I would subject my child to that situation, none. Contrary to what it appears your sister in law may want, she can not and does not control everything when it comes to her children, grandchildren or life itself.

It is time for your sister in law to back away and let her child take care of his mess. She should mind her own business.

 

[luvsJack]

Wow! Careful, that is very dangerous road to be on. What you think is not doing right and what your children think isn't doing right could be as different as night and day. You have no business messing in your grown children's lives.

Suffer? Stuff happens, and the child wasn't being victimized or traumatized. So Mommy was crying, maybe crying mommy and or needs to wake up and take care of their child. Unless she knows for sure that the child is irreparably traumatized the child should stay with the parents unless asked otherwise.

Maybe her heart was in the right place, but she has no business acting on any of it. This is actually none of her concern. Three adults made some dumb decisions and they have to deal with them.

Well obviously this time she got in and over her head. She needs to back out, way out.

On the outside chance that this woman is pregnant and your sister in law misses out on knowing the child, well there is actually nothing she can do about it. It isn't the worst thing that could happen. This woman in probably wishing she never met this man or the family and is running scared. There is no way I would subject my child to that situation, none. Contrary to what it appears your sister in law may want, she can not and does not control everything when it comes to her children, grandchildren or life itself.

It is time for your sister in law to back away and let her child take care of his mess. She should mind her own business.

To the parts I bolded:

1. If I see something going on in ds and dil's life that is affecting my dgd in a negative way, yep I will say something. I will not stand back and watch anything hurt her and not say something. They don't have to change, they don't have to react, but I will say it. Now, that doesn't mean that I tell dil how to feed the child, dress the child, disipline the child or any other day to day care of her. I am talking about something that will have a much bigger effect on her. I don't even know what goes on in their day to day life nor to I feel its my business to know. I am talking about stuff like driving her around in the car while drinking or something major like that. (hasn't happend, just using an example)

2. Mommy was not just crying. Mommy was curled up in a ball not responding to anyone or anything and crying non-stop. She doesn't have normal reactions to anything. There is no way for you or I to know if the child was being traumtized or not, we weren't there. Sil says no, but how much longer was mommy going to lay there? Also, Mommy was involved in drugs not so very long ago. How does sil know its not going to happen again? That is an awfully big chance to take with her grandson. Obviously the two in question are in agreement with her or they would have already came and got the child, its not like she took him across country.


These "adults" are not acting like adults, at all. And I don't think that sil is trying to control anyone, she really isn't that type. But she loves her family and family is important to her. Not knowing a grandchild IS one of the worst things that can happen in her mind (remember "worst things" can be different to different people)

She is concerned about this girl and her possible grandchild. Will she get prenatal care? Will she take care of herself and have a healthy pregnancy? Will the baby be healthy? What will he/she look like? She knows these are questions that will run through her head for a long time.

She isn't hunting the girl down or anything. She probably won't do anything at least until she knows for sure whether her son is. I think right now she is taking a wait and see approach and hope that he just makes an effort to find out for sure.

 

[2binak]

On the outside chance that this woman is pregnant and your sister in law misses out on knowing the child, well there is actually nothing she can do about it.

In some states, grandparents do have the right to file for visitation with their grandchildren so there may very well be something that she could do about it

OP - hugs to your SIL This sounds like a horrible situation for everyone involved.

 

[Wishing on a star]

If she want's to help out with current grandkids, offer advice IF asked, etc...
Very nice and appropriate!!!

Anything else, including having anything at all to do, even one single word, with this 'other woman'.... NO WAY... PERIOD...

 

[Agri]

I'm not going to go back and quote everything, but - yes, your SIL/mommy dearest DID swoop in to take care of their problems. She was not asked and took it upon herself to take the child under false pretenses then call up and tell them she was keeping the child until they got their mess straight.

That is swooping in and taking care of their responsibility. As you stated, the father had been taking care of his son while his wife was crying because he went out and slept with another woman and possibly knocked her up while they were separated. He messed up - he was taking care of the problem. But, his mother clearly didn't think her son could handle it, so she swooped in and took the child. The mother isn't the only parent in that household.

Now, if your SIL doesn't let them handle their own problems, how the heck are they supposed to ever act like adults? The truth of the matter is she raised him, so she is partially to blame for his lack of maturity. Yes, kids have their own free will, but when its something that severe, there is usually a reason based on childhood.

If the child was truly in danger, she should have called CPS. The child would have been placed with family before going to a foster home anyway if they found evidence of neglect or abuse.

My guess is that he's a momma's boy and momma usually has all the answers and will do what she can to make her son's life easier for him. Her DS is going to continue acting like a child as long as she keeps treating him like one.

And honestly, all I keep thinking is that I would probably make bad decisions, too, if I was dealing with a relationship where I was marrying the mother along with the son. Its a fairly subtle thing to outsiders, but its a very unhealthy and stressful relationship to be in.

*You* know her in one aspect of her life, but the way she treats them behind closed doors is a whole other matter.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Forget the baby-daddy..your SIL needs to "man up". The child was not in any danger. He was not being neglected. They were fighting. SIL needs to mind her business. The fact that she is so distraught over the possibility of not being involved in the "possible" new baby's life tells me that he claws are so deeply entrenched in her son/grandchild's life (hello? kidnapping!) that SHE isn't thinking clearly.

The whole lot of them need serious professional help.

THIS!!!!!

SIL is no different or better than her son or son's wife....
She is just relishing jumping into the drama, a little TOO much.

It simply is NOT her business.

She has no right to tell them when and/or how they may have their son back.

Right now, nobody even knows for sure if there is any baby.
She has ZERO rights.
IMHO, she has zero rights even after the baby is born and paternity tests have been done.
And, she is like way out of line thinking she can or should be involved at all right now.

I know Mama/MIL claws when I see them.

 

[rie'smom]

I'm not going to go back and quote everything, but - yes, your SIL/mommy dearest DID swoop in to take care of their problems. She was not asked and took it upon herself to take the child under false pretenses then call up and tell them she was keeping the child until they got their mess straight.

That is swooping in and taking care of their responsibility. As you stated, the father had been taking care of his son while his wife was crying because he went out and slept with another woman and possibly knocked her up while they were separated. He messed up - he was taking care of the problem. But, his mother clearly didn't think her son could handle it, so she swooped in and took the child. The mother isn't the only parent in that household.

Now, if your SIL doesn't let them handle their own problems, how the heck are they supposed to ever act like adults? The truth of the matter is she raised him, so she is partially to blame for his lack of maturity. Yes, kids have their own free will, but when its something that severe, there is usually a reason based on childhood.

If the child was truly in danger, she should have called CPS. The child would have been placed with family before going to a foster home anyway if they found evidence of neglect or abuse.

My guess is that he's a momma's boy and momma usually has all the answers and will do what she can to make her son's life easier for him. Her DS is going to continue acting like a child as long as she keeps treating him like one.

And honestly, all I keep thinking is that I would probably make bad decisions, too, if I was dealing with a relationship where I was marrying the mother along with the son. Its a fairly subtle thing to outsiders, but its a very unhealthy and stressful relationship to be in.

*You* know her in one aspect of her life, but the way she treats them behind closed doors is a whole other matter.

Yes and

THIS!!!!!

SIL is no different or better than her son or son's wife....
She is just relishing jumping into the drama, a little TOO much.

It simply is NOT her business.

She has no right to tell them when and/or how they may have their son back.

Right now, nobody even knows for sure if there is any baby.
She has ZERO rights.
IMHO, she has zero rights even after the baby is born and paternity tests have been done.
And, she is like way out of line thinking she can or should be involved at all right now.

I know Mama/MIL claws when I see them.

Yes

 

[Tuffcookie]

So, let me see if I'm understanding this...SIL has the grandson until her DS and his DW get counselling and things improve. Do you think that is really going to happen? I'll bet a more realistic scenario is: DS & DW will have unprotected sex and she'll end up pregnant again. Then the SIL will have to kidnap the grandbaby by the girl that got pregnant by her DS while he was separated from his DW, and the new baby.

Sounds like a plan!

TC

 

[snowywhite89]

In some states, grandparents do have the right to file for visitation with their grandchildren so there may very well be something that she could do about it

What state(s)? All the case I have heard on the news always ended with the GP getting no visitation. The parents hold all the cards.


Sad to say but this sounds like a Jerry Springer episode.


The SIL needs to butt out and stop trying to control all the others in her family.

 

[C.Ann]

Sil called this morning and said that she went to their house last night and got her grandson. While there she just smiled and said she wanted him to come spend the night. When she got home she called them back and said he would stay with her until they could grow up and start acting like adults and get this mess straightened out. They agreed that it was for the best because they needed the time to be able to talk it all out without worrying about him overhearing. She told them that until some counseling was involved, they need not plan to come and get him. They agreed and said they had already decided that. She said that her grandson doesn't seem upset or to really have any knowledge that there is stress and turmoil going on. He only said that he was glad Daddy was home now.

Its really a sad shame that IF there is a pregnancy that this woman may feel its easier to go through it all alone, when she really could have the support of dn's family even without him being in the picture.

Kidnapping the child of someone else (grandchild or not) under false pretenses is about as low as a person can go.. Shame on her..

And then the parents of this child - who it's been said is well cared for - were fine with this indefinte stay - after she basically stole their child?

And she now wants to insert herself into the life of another woman who may or may not be pregnant with yet another of her grandchildren?

I really hate to say it, but I think she's lying to you - flat out.. She needs to be in control of everything - plain and simple - to the point where she will kidnap a well-cared for child.. And she tells the parents they need counseling????? I think she could use some serious counseling herself.. If anyone took my well-cared for child out of my home under false pretense and then called to say they weren't bringing him back until my DH & I did "X,Y,Z", the police would be pounding down her/his door and someone's butt would be in the slammer..

That is the most horrific thing I have ever heard!!! Please encourage the SIL to return the child - and get counseling for herself - ASAP, before she wreaks havoc in anyone elses life..

 

[Jennasis]

The "other woman" is the only intelligent one of the bunch. She is disengaging from the nut-bag family (with the lie to the wife) and heading for the hills. Granny kidnaps the grandson...oh yeah, THIS is the type of person I'd want around my kid.

I'm sure there IS a baby on the way. I pray your SIL never gets a chance to make-off with it under the guise of "protecting it" from someone she feels is doing an inadequate job of parenting.

Will she get prenatal care? Will she take care of herself and have a healthy pregnancy? Will the baby be healthy? What will he/she look like?

I'm sure she'll be fine. Your SIL isn't the be all end all of child bearing/rearing knowledge (as evidenced by her own son). She surpassed "too involved" and into the land of intrusive a while ago.

Run baby momma...RUN.

 

[luvsJack]

You all really kill me. You really take something and run with it.

"I" don't know how she treats them behind closed doors? And you do?
Ok, sure.

Look, I certainly am not going to get in a debate over something that I am not even seeing or experiencing first hand (thank GOD!) but I do know the family. And no he is not a "momma's boy". They live seperatly, he works, pays his own bills and makes his own decisions and up until the last couple of months seemed to make good decisions. She doesn't get involved in their lives. She just doesn't. She is a grandma that loves her grandson. She babysits for them, he has over night visits on the weekends and she takes him to the park. All the little grandmother things. She doesn't get overly involved in their life. Its the same way with her other children.

If she had "kidnapped" her grandson and her son and dil felt she was wrong they could walk to her house and get him. She doesn't exactly have guns aimed at the door. They all agreed that it would be best until things settled down. She isn't keeping him forever nor does she even want to, we are talking through the weekend--max. She just doesn't want him subjected to the crap that is going on at their house right now. And guess what, he shouldn't be. They should have asked her to let him stay with her in the first place, it would have been the best thing for him. If his parents don't have a problem with it, I really don't get a bunch of strangers getting all up in the air about it.




The original question not about the woman's grandson, it was about the possible pregnancy. There is so much more to this story that involves what has been said about this other woman but I don't know her and neither does my sil so can't say that it is all true. They have never met, never talked, she doesn't even know sil's name or anything. But her son's friend says that the woman is very recently divorced and has a very young baby (less than 6 months), she parties a lot and spends a lot of time in bars. She also has an older child that lives with his dad (the man she is divorced from, but there seems to be a question of the baby's parternity). IF all this is true, then YES there is reason to worry about the possible grandchild. And DN didn't "have an affair", he had a one night stand. If there is a pregnancy, a DNA test will need to be done. So this girl who everyone wants to paint as "running off into the night to protect her unborn child" is not doing that in the least. If she wanted to find her, she could probably just go to the popular club in town and ask around. But not doing that.

We are talking about some MAJOR bad decisions going on by every party here. And some that seem to be a habit if all this is true about this woman.

I completely disagree that it would have been better to call CPS instead of just going over and saying "Jack, you want to come spend the night with grandma". Certainly a lot less traumatic for the child, and again NO ONE in the child's life has a problem with it.

Since I first posted this, sil has had a lot of time to think and talk to her husband and a lot of time to calm down. She isn't going to do anything to try and get in touch with the woman. Her hope is that in a few weeks, Dn will call or see the woman and talk to her about it. Other than that, she now feels more sure that he will see people that will see this woman and will let him know if she is pregnant.

Goodness, I never realized I would get so slammed for something that isn't even ME! I was just upset for my family member and worried for her. But, contrary to popular belief I do know this woman and SHE isn't the bad guy here. There are plenty to go around but she isn't one of them,

 

[Jennasis]

You all really kill me. You really take something and run with it.

"I" don't know how she treats them behind closed doors? And you do?
Ok, sure.

Look, I certainly am not going to get in a debate over something that I am not even seeing or experiencing first hand (thank GOD!) but I do know the family. And no he is not a "momma's boy". They live seperatly, he works, pays his own bills and makes his own decisions and up until the last couple of months seemed to make good decisions. She doesn't get involved in their lives. She just doesn't. She is a grandma that loves her grandson. She babysits for them, he has over night visits on the weekends and she takes him to the park. All the little grandmother things. She doesn't get overly involved in their life. Its the same way with her other children.

If she had "kidnapped" her grandson and her son and dil felt she was wrong they could walk to her house and get him. She doesn't exactly have guns aimed at the door. They all agreed that it would be best until things settled down. She isn't keeping him forever nor does she even want to, we are talking through the weekend--max. She just doesn't want him subjected to the crap that is going on at their house right now. And guess what, he shouldn't be. They should have asked her to let him stay with her in the first place, it would have been the best thing for him. If his parents don't have a problem with it, I really don't get a bunch of strangers getting all up in the air about it.




The original question not about the woman's grandson, it was about the possible pregnancy. There is so much more to this story that involves what has been said about this other woman but I don't know her and neither does my sil so can't say that it is all true. They have never met, never talked, she doesn't even know sil's name or anything. But her son's friend says that the woman is very recently divorced and has a very young baby (less than 6 months), she parties a lot and spends a lot of time in bars. She also has an older child that lives with his dad (the man she is divorced from, but there seems to be a question of the baby's parternity). IF all this is true, then YES there is reason to worry about the possible grandchild. And DN didn't "have an affair", he had a one night stand. If there is a pregnancy, a DNA test will need to be done. So this girl who everyone wants to paint as "running off into the night to protect her unborn child" is not doing that in the least. If she wanted to find her, she could probably just go to the popular club in town and ask around. But not doing that.

We are talking about some MAJOR bad decisions going on by every party here. And some that seem to be a habit if all this is true about this woman.

I completely disagree that it would have been better to call CPS instead of just going over and saying "Jack, you want to come spend the night with grandma". Certainly a lot less traumatic for the child, and again NO ONE in the child's life has a problem with it.

Since I first posted this, sil has had a lot of time to think and talk to her husband and a lot of time to calm down. She isn't going to do anything to try and get in touch with the woman. Her hope is that in a few weeks, Dn will call or see the woman and talk to her about it. Other than that, she now feels more sure that he will see people that will see this woman and will let him know if she is pregnant.

Goodness, I never realized I would get so slammed for something that isn't even ME! I was just upset for my family member and worried for her. But, contrary to popular belief I do know this woman and SHE isn't the bad guy here. There are plenty to go around but she isn't one of them,

1. They are one and the same

2. This I can agree with. Everyone. Your SIL, her son, his wife and the woman who may be pg.

3. No slams to you. It's understandable that you would feel that way, but I never said anything about YOU.