What budget? Why worry? How do people do it?

csharpwv

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
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OK, I don't often feel the need to vent semi-anonymously - however, it's been building up for almost a year.

My wife and I responsible people - we each have retirement accounts, we have a savings account, we have checking account - and our bills are paid on-time. In short, we take care of our obligations - and we know our obligations, we do not live from payday to payday.

In light of that I am so tired of hearing about how 'bad' some people have it - yet they make expenditures that we (my wife and I) could not afford to, and they make financial decisions that will, just as a reasonable person could reasonably predict, make them 'short' when it comes time to take care of their financial obligations in the middle or end of the month.

I see people that have started taking public assistance when they spend countless dollars a month on totally wasteful, and impractical purchases.

I see these people making decisions, their kids see them making decisions, so it's safe to assume that their kids will make those same decisions. It's a vicious cycle!

If you know your financial obligations, you can literally see the future to a certain degree in that you know exactly what your fixed expenses are each month. Some expenses vary to a certain degree each month, but a good number of monthly expenses are the same, literally down to the penny. Emergencies do come up, heaven knows we all have emergencies (leaky roof, new tires, furnace goes out on the coldest day of winter, or the A/C goes out on the hottest day of summer) totally unexpected expenses do come up, and require a little creativity in balancing expenses and such from month to month. Emergencies happen to everyone, Murphy's Law prevails - and while it is hard to plan for the unknown - handling the unknown and unforeseen isn't impossible.

When people live their lives in a constant state of emergency, and it happens 12 out of 12 months a year, year after year - emergencies become a way of life, and the drama doesn't die down - and it comes time to step back and let the drama exist on its own and not be part of it in others lives.

I know I'm tried of hearing about how bad people have it when the decision they make are TOTALLY different than their reality.

Yet, it comes as a total surprise when the bills come in every month, somehow, some people are shocked to open the mailbox each day! WHY!?!?!

I get SO tired of hearing people complain about their financial situation, yet they won't dedicate the time to receive training to get a better job, they won't allow anyone to help with their resume, they won't take a step out of their comfort zone to apply for better higher paying positions, and most of all, they won't even LOOK for a job if they are unemployed!

People think that if they go for some type of additional training - even at a tech center or trade center, that they are going to immediately be enrolled for a 4 year degree. Some of the best paying jobs in this economy are jobs that specifically require 2 years or less of training. Yet, someone will break their back digging ditches instead of being trained for a better job that pays twice as much and isn't as labor intensive. I understand that some people LIKE digging ditches - but you don't hear those people complaining!

The same with people that are 'stuck' in low paying retail/service jobs - have they considered going for 6 months of management training to be qualified to apply for a management position when one becomes available? NO, they would rather complain.

Yet, another group that annoys me - those who go to college for 4+ years for specific career focused training and REFUSE to MOVE to secure the job that they are trained to do. If you went to college to be a teacher - GO TEACH! Just because you can't get a job at the school around the corner does not mean that 'there just aren't any teaching jobs' - it means that you refuse to mobilize your life, and put your degree to work for you, and for the good of society. There are school districts that are desperate for young energetic teachers! Why sit and be complacent? GO TO WORK!

Finally, what really sent me over the edge - TOYS. Adults and their toys - people that can't afford to pay their bills, and are in fact in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings, should not be buying luxury items! New cars, motorcycles, etc etc - the list goes on and on. If you are declaring in a court of law, under oath, that there is NO WAY you can afford to pay off your financial obligations - going out and buying a motorcycle in the midst of all of that amounts to is essentially lying under oath.

We ALL pay for individuals who are not responsible enough to pay for their own financial obligations. Just like businesses have to raise their prices to cover the cost of lost due to theft - we all pay for irresponsible behavior.

Thanks for putting up with a vent - I am just so sick and tired of people living beyond their means, then whining and complaining about the stresses of life - all while they can't figure out how they got in the mess they are in... and for some people, how they got in the mess AGAIN!

If a person makes $500 a month, they need to figure out how to live on it - even if it means pursuing charity for food or other assistance, OR get a better job - OR stop buying stuff you can't afford!

I'm sure I'm not the only person that is sick and tired of hearing about irresponsibility of others in their life when it comes to managing their financial affairs- or their life in general - it isn't incredibly difficult.

As a society people think they 'deserve' things. During the Great Depression people made due with what they had. Did they want more? YES of course they did - but there wasn't the "I Deserve It!" mentality that is so prevalent in society.

This is the Budget Board - so I thought it would be the most appropriate place to vent.

Thanks again for reading.
 
Here's what I have to say on that....:thumbsup2

I'm going to add one....people who buy a house that is more than they can realistically afford just because the bank told them they could buy it. :headache:

I understand there is a need for public assistance but it should be temporary, and used as a stepping stone and not a way of life. I have no problem at all helping people down on their luck and in this economy, finding a job is not as simple as just moving. Having said that, make decisions. If you make a bad decision, learn from it and don't repeat it.
 
OK, I don't often feel the need to vent semi-anonymously - however, it's been building up for almost a year.

My wife and I responsible people - we each have retirement accounts, we have a savings account, we have checking account - and our bills are paid on-time. In short, we take care of our obligations - and we know our obligations, we do not live from payday to payday.

In light of that I am so tired of hearing about how 'bad' some people have it - yet they make expenditures that we (my wife and I) could not afford to, and they make financial decisions that will, just as a reasonable person could reasonably predict, make them 'short' when it comes time to take care of their financial obligations in the middle or end of the month.

I see people that have started taking public assistance when they spend countless dollars a month on totally wasteful, and impractical purchases.

I see these people making decisions, their kids see them making decisions, so it's safe to assume that their kids will make those same decisions. It's a vicious cycle!

If you know your financial obligations, you can literally see the future to a certain degree in that you know exactly what your fixed expenses are each month. Some expenses vary to a certain degree each month, but a good number of monthly expenses are the same, literally down to the penny. Emergencies do come up, heaven knows we all have emergencies (leaky roof, new tires, furnace goes out on the coldest day of winter, or the A/C goes out on the hottest day of summer) totally unexpected expenses do come up, and require a little creativity in balancing expenses and such from month to month. Emergencies happen to everyone, Murphy's Law prevails - and while it is hard to plan for the unknown - handling the unknown and unforeseen isn't impossible.

When people live their lives in a constant state of emergency, and it happens 12 out of 12 months a year, year after year - emergencies become a way of life, and the drama doesn't die down - and it comes time to step back and let the drama exist on its own and not be part of it in others lives.

I know I'm tried of hearing about how bad people have it when the decision they make are TOTALLY different than their reality.

Yet, it comes as a total surprise when the bills come in every month, somehow, some people are shocked to open the mailbox each day! WHY!?!?!

I get SO tired of hearing people complain about their financial situation, yet they won't dedicate the time to receive training to get a better job, they won't allow anyone to help with their resume, they won't take a step out of their comfort zone to apply for better higher paying positions, and most of all, they won't even LOOK for a job if they are unemployed!

People think that if they go for some type of additional training - even at a tech center or trade center, that they are going to immediately be enrolled for a 4 year degree. Some of the best paying jobs in this economy are jobs that specifically require 2 years or less of training. Yet, someone will break their back digging ditches instead of being trained for a better job that pays twice as much and isn't as labor intensive. I understand that some people LIKE digging ditches - but you don't hear those people complaining!

The same with people that are 'stuck' in low paying retail/service jobs - have they considered going for 6 months of management training to be qualified to apply for a management position when one becomes available? NO, they would rather complain.

Yet, another group that annoys me - those who go to college for 4+ years for specific career focused training and REFUSE to MOVE to secure the job that they are trained to do. If you went to college to be a teacher - GO TEACH! Just because you can't get a job at the school around the corner does not mean that 'there just aren't any teaching jobs' - it means that you refuse to mobilize your life, and put your degree to work for you, and for the good of society. There are school districts that are desperate for young energetic teachers! Why sit and be complacent? GO TO WORK!

Finally, what really sent me over the edge - TOYS. Adults and their toys - people that can't afford to pay their bills, and are in fact in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings, should not be buying luxury items! New cars, motorcycles, etc etc - the list goes on and on. If you are declaring in a court of law, under oath, that there is NO WAY you can afford to pay off your financial obligations - going out and buying a motorcycle in the midst of all of that amounts to is essentially lying under oath.

We ALL pay for individuals who are not responsible enough to pay for their own financial obligations. Just like businesses have to raise their prices to cover the cost of lost due to theft - we all pay for irresponsible behavior.

Thanks for putting up with a vent - I am just so sick and tired of people living beyond their means, then whining and complaining about the stresses of life - all while they can't figure out how they got in the mess they are in... and for some people, how they got in the mess AGAIN!

If a person makes $500 a month, they need to figure out how to live on it - even if it means pursuing charity for food or other assistance, OR get a better job - OR stop buying stuff you can't afford!

I'm sure I'm not the only person that is sick and tired of hearing about irresponsibility of others in their life when it comes to managing their financial affairs- or their life in general - it isn't incredibly difficult.

As a society people think they 'deserve' things. During the Great Depression people made due with what they had. Did they want more? YES of course they did - but there wasn't the "I Deserve It!" mentality that is so prevalent in society.

This is the Budget Board - so I thought it would be the most appropriate place to vent.

Thanks again for reading.

No, you aren't the only person sick and tired of hearing about the irresponsibility of others and their finances. It's all about choices, and some people make terrible financial choices and expect others to pick up the pieces.
 
I volunteer at the food pantry. I see more newer European SUV's with rhino bars coming for free food than you can imagine. For the record, there are no free-range rhino's roaming about in Naperville.
 

:confused3

Sorry I really never understand the purpose of these vents. Pretty much they are simply "every body on public assistance is stealing my hard earned cash, while I live in a 2X4 shoebox and ride a 10 year old car"

Do you really worry about the "Joneses" that much? there have always been poor people, there always will be? Do you know all these folks who you say are getting fancy degrees and then not moving to where the jobs are?

you're tired of hearing about them? turn off your tv. stop watching the news. Hang out on the dis boards.

I think it's a bit ironic that you are tired of hearing about them yet you spread the very same information.

So now will have 20 pages of budgeters patting themselves on the back for being master of the universe and whining about how unfair life is.

Do they make you feel better?
 
I volunteer at the food pantry. I see more newer European SUV's with rhino bars coming for free food than you can imagine. For the record, there are no free-range rhino's roaming about in Naperville.

HAHAHAHA SEE! That's exactly what I mean!

If you are running an African Safari - by all means, a tough built rhino bar is a necessity - however, I would even go a step further and be willing to bet that the vast majority of those vehicles haven't been off a state/county maintained road! Gravel would scratch the paint and get dust in places they don't want it!

If you are driving a $50,000 off road vehicle in the suburbs in the evening and parking it in a parking garage downtown from 9-5pm Monday-Friday - then that vehicle choice might not be the best choice..... right?

And as far as buying more house than you can afford - what kills me is this -

Have you drive through any 'post recession' developments? They REALLY remind me of campgrounds - no sidewalks, no 'standardized' mailboxes, to house numbers - REALLY? You are paying $55,000 for 1/4 acre lot? Then moving in to a development with no sidewalks? Or streetlights for that matter? WHY?!?!?!

If I were to live in a development, the LEAST I would want would be sidewalks - they make it feel like a community - AND streetlights - they make the community safer.

Keeping up with the Jonses used to be all about having the best - but I'm not buying a $350,000 home built in campground style - should they also build bathhouses? HAHA

I just don't understand why someone would want something that they can't A) Afford - and B)Maintain - physically or financially for that matter!

It just makes NO SENSE - but there are so many people making these decisions that land them in bankruptcy!
 
Nope...you're not the only one. My DH's family lives this way and it drives me crazy especially when all they do is "cry poor" to him. DH's mother and father sold their house back in 1993 when they were 53 and 55 and moved to a snowbird state where they had purchased a condo for his grandmother many years before. They had NO other savings other than the house proceeds (about 250K), no retirement savings and no health insurance. They told everyone they were retired. When they turned 62 they started collecting social security. Well guess what? They blew through the house proceeds, got sick, charged medical bills, grandmother died, father died and my MIL now receives a small social security check each month. "Luckily" the credit card bills were "forgiven" as they were all in my FIL's name (burns me up because they were so reckless with them). She is also on Medicaid. All she does now is whine about how she has no money and tough it is. She'd move back here in an instant if anyone would have her. Guess what? I have NO sympathy. My dad is 70 years old, retired from a long career from which he is collecting a pension and is working in a completely different career FULL TIME. NO sympathy at all. She made poor life choices and I refuse to support someone who was so lazy all her life. We do send her money for her birthday, Christmas and pay to fly her up here for 6 weeks each summer for an all expenses paid vacation but the constant whining about how tough her life is drives me insane! Oh--I helped her with some banking on-line when she was here last summer and saw that she regularly goes to Applebee's with her girlfriends for happy hour drinks and uses her debit card. Things that make you go hmmmmm.... DH also has a sister who filed for bankruptcy, a brother living paycheck to paycheck and another brother who has a lot of toys but is always crying poor. Uugh!!! Sorry to answer your vent with a vent!
 
I've worked for years and years in the financial industry so have seen a wide range of how people handle their money. While every one goes thru good and bad times, and everyone makes the occasional financial mistakes ( of which usually they gain some valuable lessons) the reality is there is a certain percent that likes to live on the financial edge. It doesn't matter if they are educated, or not, have a big paycheck or not - they are always going to push the financial envelope. It's just who they are. While it would be nice to think that everyone should train for a job that will afford them the basics, with the occasional toy after they have fully funded their 401k, have the 6 month cushion in the bank, and regular payments to the kiddies college fund - not everyone wants to go the safe route. By putting themselves out there and leaving themselves vulnerable they are betting on a big payoff on the other end. Do they get the winning ticket? Usually not, but the one thing I've seen in common with all those who have broken through to the other side - every single one of them was willing to put themselves out there in the first place.
Read any biography of those who have achieved greatness - they all started with a struggle. Donald trump is a perfect example - how many bankruptcies did he go through? But he kept banging on the door long after many would have given up.
Some people like to take risks with their lives (extreme sports for example) some go after their dream to be a movie star, some will sink every penny into a start up, some want to break records in sports. Most of us just dream about it and play it safe - and some will keep trying for that brass ring. Living that kind of life is rarely pretty, but some people are willing to give it all up just for the chance.
Not much you can do to change them - they are who they are.
 
:confused3

Sorry I really never understand the purpose of these vents. Pretty much they are simply "every body on public assistance is stealing my hard earned cash, while I live in a 2X4 shoebox and ride a 10 year old car"

Do you really worry about the "Joneses" that much? there have always been poor people, there always will be? Do you know all these folks who you say are getting fancy degrees and then not moving to where the jobs are?

you're tired of hearing about them? turn off your tv. stop watching the news. Hang out on the dis boards.

I think it's a bit ironic that you are tired of hearing about them yet you spread the very same information.

So now will have 20 pages of budgeters patting themselves on the back for being master of the universe and whining about how unfair life is.

Do they make you feel better?

It all boils down to this -
If you work for what you have, you own what you have.
If you don't work for what you have, you don't own what you have - you are buying it on borrowed dimes that, if people would take the time to LOOK at what they make and LOOK at what they spend - they would quickly realize that they are SPENDING more than they MAKE.

That's what makes me so angry. For so many it's not that they hit hard times - I know several friends who are making more than what they made 5 years ago, and yet, somehow, they are $90,000 in debt - aside from their mortgage. And they just can't figure out how it happened. They got approved for the loan, they got approved for the credit card - why can't they make their minimum monthly payments.

It's not entirely the fault of the 'people' - it is also the fault of greedy banks and credit card companies - we all learned that over the last few years.

However, a reasonable amount of common sense could have prevented a great deal of the credit collapse. If you make $1,200 a month after taxes - a $900 mortgage payment isn't exactly reasonable.

- People vent because they get tired to hearing people - family, friends, co-workers - etc etc - complaining about how 'bad' their life is - and yet, it wasn't hard to see their 'hard times' coming.

As the old saying goes - they made their bed hard, they should have to lie in it!

I don't want a pat on the back, I want to know that other people are tired of hearing it. I had a co-worker at one time that had a 'hard time' every month - 12 out of 12 months. Yet their kids had all the latest electronics, they had an iPhone, they bought iPads for the kids, the kids each had an ATV, their cars were never more than two years old, and they could never seem to figure out how to pay for it all.

Lesson learned - your life fits your budget, not the other way around. You can't FORCE your budget to fit your lifestyle if you spend more than you make.

People don't understand the difference between NEED and WANT.

There are so many people that make the right decisions - that teach their kids to budget, that maintain their vehicles, that save money each month by making smart decisions, and go without when they need to to assure that they have the money at the end of the month to meet their financial obligations.

Pay what you owe to others before you pay/reward yourself.

It is simply a matter of respect - some people have no respect for others.

What
 
I totally agree. We used to have a girl that worked (well, showed up) at our office that would whine and cry about how her ex wouldn't pay child support and she didn't know how she was going to feed her kids or pay her rent....I almost felt sorry for her, until she said 'how do you like my hair? I just got it done yesterday and it cost $140!':scared1: She also had perfectly manicured fingers & toes, an expensive car, and new clothes and shoes all the time. Sorry, but if you can't feed your kids, you don't spend that kind of $$ on yourself. AND, she wouldn't take extra hours at work when offered...I didn't get it.

My husband & I make a pretty good living, but we are very frugal and I do not spend like that! 10 years ago, I was 8 months pregnant with our son and not working, and my husband got laid off. We IMMEDIATELY contacted our creditors and asked for help (we got them to delay payments by a few months), we cut cable, we stopped going out to eat, started conserving gas, etc. I did NOT go get my hair or nails done!!
 
It all boils down to this -
If you work for what you have, you own what you have.
If you don't work for what you have, you don't own what you have - you are buying it on borrowed dimes that, if people would take the time to LOOK at what they make and LOOK at what they spend - they would quickly realize that they are SPENDING more than they MAKE.

That's what makes me so angry. For so many it's not that they hit hard times - I know several friends who are making more than what they made 5 years ago, and yet, somehow, they are $90,000 in debt - aside from their mortgage.
What

Ok so I totally understand the working for what you want. I totally get it. I was taught that, hopefully I've passed on those healthy money habits to my kids. I've made some financial F-bombs that would cause a financial planner to explodes so I try not to judge.


So now you are angry? Does it change anyones behaviour? (usually no) Does your friends being in debt cause your life to go down hill (usually no but there maybe a small argument that it causes interest fees to go up, I don't really buy that because I think the banking industry mess and investors have a lot more effect on it than deadbeats)?


Do your choices change because of your friends?

If they go under do you lose what you own? So you're stressing over some one elses financial situation? Color me crazy but personally I've got enough stress with my own life without getting upset over some thing you absolutely have no control over.

Listen, I live my financial life the best way I know how for my family. If some one is knee deep in debt and tells me they are going to disneyworld, I say "have a nice trip". All you can do is make the decisions that are great for your family.

I really think the problem is
1) 24/7 news access
2) the most extreme cases get televised
3) your average joe is easier to kick and blame than say citicorp.

Like Acklander said, for the most part, people who exhibit bad judgement are going to continue to exhibit it. You could give them a million bucks monthly and if they are no good wiht money or self control, they will still be living in debt.

So like I said, I think it just gives everyone to "pat themselves on the back" on the great job they are doing and say every one else should be like them. We have these post routinely and as far as I can figure is they give every one a chance to say how great they are.
 
Here's what I have to say on that....:thumbsup2

I'm going to add one....people who buy a house that is more than they can realistically afford just because the bank told them they could buy it. :headache:

I agree with this 100%, we have several friends who right out of college bought $150,000-200,000 homes, yes technically they could afford that but they didn't consider insurance, maintence, utilities, etc and so now are struggling with their mortgages. One is losing their home to foreclosure but just went to disney over spring break, one just lost their mini van and is 2 months behind on their mortgage but just new flooring and furniture for that house. So obviously they have their priorities straight :confused3

When we bought our first home the bank offered us $125,000, we knew we didn't want that large of a house payment so looked in the $100, 000 range, the house we fell in love with was only $76,000 and we bought it. We are in decent shape financially and feel comfortable.
 
I volunteer at the food pantry. I see more newer European SUV's with rhino bars coming for free food than you can imagine. For the record, there are no free-range rhino's roaming about in Naperville.
I'm confused why you volunteer at a food bank that services people that you feel are not worthy of your help. Must be nice at the top of your Ivory Tower. Enjoy the view.
 
I saw something yesterday that read, The Recession will not be over 'til we raise a generation of people who know how to live on less than they earn. That's the truth.

This isn't a new problem. When I was in high school I recognized that some people were spending beyond their means. When I was a poor college student, I saw it among my peers. I think it's worse today because more stuff and more credit is available.

You will never be able to convince the I-can't-feed-my-kids-but-a-manicure-makes-me-feel-good-about-myself crowd that they CAN live within their means, nor that they should even try. It's too far beyond their comprehension.

Having said that, I do believe that we as a society should do all we can to keep education affordable -- everyone should have a shot at doing well in the world. Not unlimited chances, but a shot as a young person at working towards a degree or other training that'll allow for a middle-class lifestyle.

And I am sympathetic to people who bought houses they genuinely could afford . . . only to find their salaries slashed or the value of their house decreased. Yeah, it's good to think that we all should've seen the writing on the wall, but for some people in some areas, it was far worse than anyone could've predicted. I also have some sympathy for people who are unable/unwilling to move for a job -- what if I'd just finished college and I couldn't find a job . . . and also couldn't move because it would mean my husband would have to give up his job? Yeah, the right answer is to prepare yourself for a job that's going to be available, but that isn't always easy to predict when you're just setting out in a course of study. However, today we have a large number of people who find themselves in such difficulties -- these tragic situations should be the exception rather than the rule. When large numbers of people "prepare for life" as poorly as our current generation has, something's wrong.

I do think a large part of it is the every-kid-gets-a-trophy concept. We've told our kids that they all deserve a modern new two-story house with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances -- that they all deserve a new car every couple years -- that they deserve expensive vacations . . . even if they haven't really earned these things. We've told them that they can be anything they want to be -- but we've failed to stress the truth that comes with that: you can be anything you want to be, IF you have the talent, if you work very hard, and if you have a little luck.
 
Unfortunately, many people today feel a strong sense of ENTITLEMENT. And that is the root of many of society's problems.

I know someone who hoards food from the food pantries and then sells it at flea markets. When the food pantries he collects from are told about his actions, they say "we can't stop giving him food". Yet they continue to say they're short food. I don't understand this at all.

Unlike we're being told, "rich" people aren't the problem. They're paying PLENTY of taxes. I KNOW that there are PLENTY of people out there who just don't feel like they have to contribute to their own upkeep. Somehow that's become the government's responsibility. But they need to know that the government's money is simply just the taxpayers' money. And we have finite resources.

It's not a matter of "turning off the tv" and burying your head in the sand to avoid these problems. They affect all of us eventually.
 
Nope...you're not the only one. My DH's family lives this way and it drives me crazy especially when all they do is "cry poor" to him. DH's mother and father sold their house back in 1993 when they were 53 and 55 and moved to a snowbird state where they had purchased a condo for his grandmother many years before. They had NO other savings other than the house proceeds (about 250K), no retirement savings and no health insurance. They told everyone they were retired. When they turned 62 they started collecting social security. Well guess what? They blew through the house proceeds, got sick, charged medical bills, grandmother died, father died and my MIL now receives a small social security check each month. "Luckily" the credit card bills were "forgiven" as they were all in my FIL's name (burns me up because they were so reckless with them). She is also on Medicaid. All she does now is whine about how she has no money and tough it is. She'd move back here in an instant if anyone would have her. Guess what? I have NO sympathy. My dad is 70 years old, retired from a long career from which he is collecting a pension and is working in a completely different career FULL TIME. NO sympathy at all. She made poor life choices and I refuse to support someone who was so lazy all her life. We do send her money for her birthday, Christmas and pay to fly her up here for 6 weeks each summer for an all expenses paid vacation but the constant whining about how tough her life is drives me insane! Oh--I helped her with some banking on-line when she was here last summer and saw that she regularly goes to Applebee's with her girlfriends for happy hour drinks and uses her debit card. Things that make you go hmmmmm.... DH also has a sister who filed for bankruptcy, a brother living paycheck to paycheck and another brother who has a lot of toys but is always crying poor. Uugh!!! Sorry to answer your vent with a vent!

No problem at all - glad you got to vent as well!

Your vent also made me think of parents that work their rear end off their entire life, and then retire - only to have the kids come around or a 'bail out' when the kids KNOW that the funds the parents have is ALL their have for the rest of their life. AND YET, meanwhile - instead of paying the parents back the 'loan' they 'borrower' is now out riding around on a motorcycle, with a new car in the garage, AND a 2nd motorcycle next to it! I don't care who you are, that's REALLY wrong - and TOTALLY irresponsible!

I have even seen one person steal from their job to make ends meet - that makes me furious!
 
I know someone who hoards food from the food pantries and then sells it at flea markets. When the food pantries he collects from are told about his actions, they say "we can't stop giving him food". Yet they continue to say they're short food. I don't understand this at all.


eventually.

Do you actually know someone like this or are you just hearing about it? If you actually know the person who is cheating the system, why aren't you calling out the person on it??? Not the food bank-but the actual person??? Personally, I don't know how this could be profitable - food banks here don't have much to give out to each individual and the cost of the flea market table would be more than they could get for the food, but if I knew someone was doing that I would be at the flea market letting everyone know that these were groceries free from the food bank.
I can see why the food pantry can't do anything. They can't cut someone off just on the say so of someone else. Too much room for abuse of power, but you can certainly call someone out on it.
 
Having said that, I do believe that we as a society should do all we can to keep education affordable -- everyone should have a shot at doing well in the world. Not unlimited chances, but a shot as a young person at working towards a degree or other training that'll allow for a middle-class lifestyle.

large numbers of people "prepare for life" as poorly as our current generation has, something's wrong.

I do think a large part of it is the every-kid-gets-a-trophy concept. We've told our kids that they all deserve a modern new two-story house with granite countertops and stainless steel appliances -- that they all deserve a new car every couple years -- that they deserve expensive vacations . . . even if they haven't really earned these things. We've told them that they can be anything they want to be -- but we've failed to stress the truth that comes with that: you can be anything you want to be, IF you have the talent, if you work very hard, and if you have a little luck.


And it won't change because it's much easier to believe the "poor people are going to disneyworld on my dime" syndrome than to actually see how every one has very much brought into "I deserve it NOW".

And the entire society has the "entitlement" symptom. I was just on a thread where folks wanted to know if it was cool to tell the manager they needed a week off for vacation, the day they got hired. Of course if you say any thing about perhaps taking the job and changing the vacation, you get the "vacations are soooo important to me that I would rather be unemployed" line or "I would hate to work in that type of job environment". What a job environment where they actually expect you to work a year before getting 2 weeks vacation. even with 8% unemployment people have "I deserve xyz before I grace you with my presence"

We have fostered this mentality in our society of play now, pay later for decades now and some how we get all shocked and shaken that it's become the norm.
 
I'm confused why you volunteer at a food bank that services people that you feel are not worthy of your help. Must be nice at the top of your Ivory Tower. Enjoy the view.

Not an ivory tower at all. I volunteer at the food pantry because my community does have many people who have a need, either temporarily or long term. (Also I really like to drive the fork-lift) However, there are many people who abuse the system. Such as the woman who drives a new Range Rover to pick up her food.

I have no problem when people need assistance. I donate to the pantry myself. I do however find it ridiculous to be rolling in a $90,000 car to pick up some free canned goods. Since the woman works at the hospital (parking sticker) it's not like the car is provided by her employer.
 
I've noticed the world's problems boil down to this:

People take as much as they can get.... except for one thing: RESPONSIBILITY.
 














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