What are the rules with "Confession" & police reporting?

[aristocatz]

Disclaimer: I'm not Christian or any religion affiliated, so I apologize if I use incorrect language or understanding..

Watching a documentary about Drew Peterson & Stacy Peterson & they interviewed a "religious figure" (sorry, I did not catch if he was a pastor, priest, minister, etc) who stated that Stacy confided in him that Drew killed his first wife. She used great detail to describe the murder. I wonder why he did not report this to the police. Stacy went missing a week later.

I'm not sure if she was talking to him during the context of "confession" or if she was just talking with him. Are religious figures vowed to secrecy with things like this? Could the religious figure be held accountable for not going to the police?

 

[wenrob]

I always thought a crime or imminent danger were supposed to be reported. However this says that’s not the case:
http://catholicstraightanswers.com/...n-or-the-secrets-ever-be-revealed-by-priests/

 

[disneychrista]

No clue how it is seen from a legal stand point but I would think it would be different if a thrid party says X told me Y than X saying I did Y and different than X saying I plan to do Y.

 

[wenrob]

Skimming through that article it seems counseling would not be the same as a confession.

I suppose it depends on the denomination etc. Legally I have no idea. Seems to me if the guy is discussing it in an interview it wasn’t under the protection of a confession.

 

[aristocatz]

Thank you. My follow up question though....even if the religious figure was protected not to say anything per his religion, how does this stand up from a legal standpoint?

Can religious rules trump legal rules?

I'm wondering if a murderer confessed to his/her crime to a religious leader, is that religious leader obligated, under state/federal law, to report it?

I've tried googling this, but I can't seem to find a straight answer.

 

[low-key]

lawyer

 

[kimblebee]

Yeah, this doesn’t break any rules at all

 

[wenrob]

Yeah, this doesn’t break any rules at all

Eh, the question is about legal ramifications. It’s not really a religious discussion IMO.

 

[wenrob]

Thank you. My follow up question though....even if the religious figure was protected not to say anything per his religion, how does this stand up from a legal standpoint?

Can religious rules trump legal rules?

I'm wondering if a murderer confessed to his/her crime to a religious leader, is that religious leader obligated, under state/federal law, to report it?

I've tried googling this, but I can't seem to find a straight answer.

Yeah googling is coming up with nothing.

 

[L&Lfan]

My understanding is that if it’s a sacramental confession, the priest may not break the seal of privacy/silence. However, the priest would most likely encourage the person to turn himself in to the authorities. It would seem logical that if the penitent were truly sorry in seeking out God’s forgiveness, he would “do the right thing” and turn himself in so that justice could be done. At least that’s how I recall it being explained to me in a college theology class on the sacraments. Of course, this concerns Catholicism. I’m not knowledgeable on how other denominations or religions handle these matters.

I also understand that certain states have challenged the seal of confession in court, but to the best of my knowledge, the seal has been upheld under freedom of religion arguments.

 

[aristocatz]

Yeah, this doesn’t break any rules at all

I'm asking about legal policy, not moral opinion.

 

[brockash]

Disclaimer: I'm not Christian or any religion affiliated, so I apologize if I use incorrect language or understanding..

Watching a documentary about Drew Peterson & Stacy Peterson & they interviewed a "religious figure" (sorry, I did not catch if he was a pastor, priest, minister, etc) who stated that Stacy confided in him that Drew killed his first wife. She used great detail to describe the murder. I wonder why he did not report this to the police. Stacy went missing a week later.

I'm not sure if she was talking to him during the context of "confession" or if she was just talking with him. Are religious figures vowed to secrecy with things like this? Could the religious figure be held accountable for not going to the police?

Generally speaking I believe they are required to report much like a counselor/psychologist which would be only if they were told someone intended on harming someone in the future, or if someone was in danger. The previous crimes had already occurred so they would not be reportable unless they felt there was someone in danger from that etc.

 

[kimblebee]

Eh, the question is about legal ramifications. It’s not really a religious discussion IMO.

I'm asking about legal policy, not moral opinion.

It’s nothing against you. If this thread gets reported, it’s not because of me.

I just find it hard to believe if someone posted asking about a legal policy having to do with something political it would be treated the same way.

Someone upthread is talking about gods forgiveness. That’s crossing a line for sure. Again, if that post goes poof, it’s not because of me.

 

[Imzadi]

If you have Spectrum Cable, you can watch On Demand an episode of the TV show, Bull, on CBS. It's Season 3, Episode 10, titled, "A Higher Law." It's where someone accidentally runs over a woman & kills her. The driver confessed to a Catholic priest right afterward. The priest drove the van back, alone, to look for the woman, in case she was still alive. He got there just before the police got there and they saw him over the body. They arrested him.

At the trial, he kept saying someone else did it. But, as the driver confessed to him, he cannot break the seal of confession to say who that person is. But, it turns out, there was some loophole about how the confession happened. When the driver had shown up in his parking lot, distraught and a big dent in the van, the priest asked the driver what happened. That was when the driver confessed.
Unfortunately, in court, since the priest asked what happened, instead of the driver voluntarily coming to him to tell him, they said the "confession" doesn't count in a court of law.

The judge told the priest that by law, he was obligated to tell the court what happened. If he doesn't he will find the priest in contempt and lock him back up. (He was out on bail.)

The priest said he answers to a higher authority and won't say. The judge held him in contempt and sent him back to prison. The priest was willing to be sentenced to prison for 25 yrs to life for a crime he didn't commit, instead of breaking the seal of confession.

Of course, it's up to Bull to figure out how to get the priest declared innocent. . .


I think Law & Order had a similar type episode. Doesn't matter what the law is or what the courts demand. The Catholic Church has it's own rules about the seal of confession which priests must follow.

 

[wenrob]

It’s nothing against you. If this thread gets reported, it’s not because of me.

I just find it hard to believe if someone posted asking about a legal policy having to do with something political it would be treated the same way.

Someone upthread is talking about gods forgiveness. That’s crossing a line for sure. Again, if that post goes poof, it’s not because of me.

The legal aspect is really hard to pin down which is why I think the OP is asking. I don’t think that in itself is crossing a line. Who knows how it can/will be taken but I personally see it as a legal discussion.

If you have Spectrum Cable, you can watch On Demand an episode of the TV show, Bull, on CBS. It's Season 3, Episode 10, titled, "A Higher Law." It's where someone accidentally runs over a woman & kills her. The driver confessed to a Catholic priest right afterward. The priest drove the van back, alone, to look for the woman, in case she was still alive. He got there just before the police got there and they saw him over the body. They arrested him.

At the trial, he kept saying someone else did it. But, as the driver confessed to him, he cannot break the seal of confession to say who that person is. But, it turns out, there was some loophole about how the confession happened. When the driver had shown up in his parking lot, distraught and a big dent in the van, the priest asked the driver what happened. That was when the driver confessed.
Unfortunately, in court, since the priest asked what happened, instead of the driver voluntarily coming to him to tell him, they said the "confession" doesn't count in a court of law.

The judge told the priest that by law, he was obligated to tell the court what happened. If he doesn't he will find the priest in contempt and lock him back up. (He was out on bail.)

The priest said he answers to a higher authority and won't say. The judge held him in contempt and sent him back to prison. The priest was willing to be sentenced to prison for 25 yrs to life for a crime he didn't commit, instead of breaking the seal of confession.

Of course, it's up to Bull to figure out how to get the priest declared innocent. . .


I think Law & Order had a similar type episode. Doesn't matter what the law is or what the courts demand. The Catholic Church has it's own rules about the seal of confession which priests must follow.

One of the articles I read trying to figure it out pretty much said that what you describe wouldn’t stand if push came to shove.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm not sure if it works similarly in the US, but in Canada everyone who has authority over children becomes a mandated reporter and must take appropriate formal training in that regard. In a church setting this includes everybody from the senior pastors to youth-group volunteers; practically everybody in any kind of leadership role really. They are legally required to report any allegation of abuse whether it is mentioned by either the victim or the perpetrator. Yes, this would also include Catholic priests, and YES, CIVIL LAW PREVAILS OVER ANY CHURCH RULE.

The only thing I'm not clear on is what all requires reporting. The regulations are in place mainly to protect children from physical abuse and sexual exploitation. I don't know how it would apply in the situation of a murder or other crime, and/or if children are not involved.

 

[mummabear]

Doesn't matter what the law is or what the courts demand. The Catholic Church has it's own rules about the seal of confession which priests must follow.

It absolutely matters what the law is. The law trumps whatever beliefs the catholic church (or any other) has.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

State laws generally exempt a pastor from having to testify in court what is said in confession. A few states make an exception and require disclosure in child abuse cases.

 

[barkley]

It absolutely matters what the law is. The law trumps whatever beliefs the catholic church (or any other) has.

and in many states catholic (and other) church 'laws' are recognized and upheld-under roman catholic teachings, the sins confessed by a parishioner to a priest in the sacrament of penance and reconciliation are secret to all but god, who absolves the sins through the instrument of the priest. state laws generally exempt a pastor from having to testify in court, or to law-enforcement, about what was discussed in a church confession.

 

[sam_gordon]

If you have Spectrum Cable, you can watch On Demand an episode of the TV show, Bull, on CBS. It's Season 3, Episode 10, titled, "A Higher Law." It's where someone accidentally runs over a woman & kills her. The driver confessed to a Catholic priest right afterward. The priest drove the van back, alone, to look for the woman, in case she was still alive. He got there just before the police got there and they saw him over the body. They arrested him.

At the trial, he kept saying someone else did it. But, as the driver confessed to him, he cannot break the seal of confession to say who that person is. But, it turns out, there was some loophole about how the confession happened. When the driver had shown up in his parking lot, distraught and a big dent in the van, the priest asked the driver what happened. That was when the driver confessed.
Unfortunately, in court, since the priest asked what happened, instead of the driver voluntarily coming to him to tell him, they said the "confession" doesn't count in a court of law.

The judge told the priest that by law, he was obligated to tell the court what happened. If he doesn't he will find the priest in contempt and lock him back up. (He was out on bail.)

The priest said he answers to a higher authority and won't say. The judge held him in contempt and sent him back to prison. The priest was willing to be sentenced to prison for 25 yrs to life for a crime he didn't commit, instead of breaking the seal of confession.

Of course, it's up to Bull to figure out how to get the priest declared innocent. . .


I think Law & Order had a similar type episode. Doesn't matter what the law is or what the courts demand. The Catholic Church has it's own rules about the seal of confession which priests must follow.

I wouldn't use a fictional TV show as the definitive answer to what the law allows.

It absolutely matters what the law is. The law trumps whatever beliefs the catholic church (or any other) has.

I would think it comes down to the belief of the priest. If he thinks "God's law" trumps "human law", then he can decide not to testify. Then he would have to suffer the consequences of his action (contempt of court?).

Here's some other reading...
https://www.catholiceducation.org/e...holic-faith/the-seal-of-the-confessional.htmlhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/new-laws-require-priests-to-break-the-seal-of-confession-1533303462https://vistacriminallaw.com/not-all-religious-confessions-are-protected-under-the-law/