Well, it's happening, can't get VWL or BCV at 7month window, and I own at both!!!!!

[tomandrobin]

Actually, I'm not whining...I stay at my home resort which I always book at 11 months - is BWV, which is "moderate" sized - and don't even like BCV. What I don't like is that Disney didn't do what I consider due dilligence in resort planning and design with these resorts - Disney usually PLANS better - or they seemed to back in the day. VWL should not be so small. SSR should not be so large. I think its poor planning and makes people not content, which decreases satisfaction in the program. Moreover, since guides do sell with the "you can stay anywhere" (often completely ignoring the small print of "depending on availability), I find the approach slightly unethical.

But, honestly, it isn't impacting me - except perhaps as it effects future resale values if and when I sell my points. So from a completely egocentric point of view - throw a highrise DVC over by Pop with 2000 rooms - I don't care.

I do think DVC should have held back the last phase of SSR, and maybe came back to it 8 years down the raod. But, that's water over the dam now.

Wilderness Lodge I think was limited in size cause of zoning restraints.....not sure about that. But, it would have been nicer to have it larger with better amenities. Has anyone seen their pool......lacking. At least the pool at the hotel makes up for it.

 

[starbox]

Actually OKW is likely to be a much smaller issue than SSR. Certainly more so than the difference in size. Partly because OKW has a loyal following, SSR likely will some day as well. And partly because of the points differential. I'd estimate that the number of SSR owners over time trying to reserve at the destination resorts to be likely 5 times or more the number of OKW owners trying to do the same. And in addition, there will likely be another 3 times as many SSR owners trying to stay at OKW as the reverse. Fact no, but my informed opinion.

As an SSR member who made her first reservation at OKW - this is totally true because of the points! If I am going to choose between 10 pts a studio and 13 pts a studio - 10 is going to be my first choice.

I actually booked at OKW thinking I probably would not like it as much as other resorts (but I am not picky and am happy just being anywhere thats not an ASR). OKW the only Disney property I have not seen at all. I assumed that since it was the oldest resort, it would probably be the "forgotten one" and nobody stayed there by choice. Then, I found the DIS boards and saw pictures/read trip reports/etc and now I am really excited about OKW! But I was totally drawn to it initially because of low points. If SSR was 11 points in the summer, I would not try to switch reservations as much. In the same way, I'll probably never try to stay at VWL for longer than a 3 day trip because it takes so many points. Although I do want to try everything once - my first choices will be the most point-conserving ones.

I think the popularity of renting BCV, BWV, and WLV is also impacting the ability of DVC members who actually want to use their points to visit with their friends/family. The Unofficial Guide to Disney tells people that the way to stay in those resorts cheap is to rent points, and that is sending tons of people to DVC to rent points. If DVC members all agreed to raise the rental price per point to closer to 15$, I have a feeling we'd see a heck of a lot more availability open up.

 

[Dean]

But that also isn't entirely accurate. If BCV/BWV owners were able to book during the 7 month window before, and are now unable to book even during the priority window, owners are reserving more rooms than in the past. Unless a lot of folks suddenly have doubled the size of their traveling parties, surely the rental market (folks booking ressies for popular times, holding that room and later renting that ressie) has increased.

Chuck, I think you may have missed the point. If an owner at say BCV was previously reserving prior to the 7 month window and being successful and now find they can't do that, they are likely to move to the home resort window for their planning as is their right. If they are not being successful, in part, because of SSR, the cause shifts to SSR among others. And many of those are going to book their home resort then be in the pool of those trying for the otehr destination resorts at the 7 month window.

Even a few rentals will have an effect on a busy time. And if the reservations are harder to get, those who rent are more likely to get high demand times and offer them for rent than wait and simply rent the points.

I agree. The more resorts in DVC, the more the members have to plan ahead to avoid booking at seven months.

It depends on the resorts. It depends more on the demand than the size though. IMO, DVC missed the opportunity with SSR to generate the demand. There are many things they could have done. A mini water park, lower points, under unit parking, an exclusive Club or restaurant, indivual golf homes that were maybe 4 BR and locked off into two 2 BR units just to name a few. CR would help some but wouldn't be large enough to relieve the pressure. Neither would adding a smaller AKL option in addition.

 

[mikesmom]

What I don't like is that Disney didn't do what I consider due dilligence in resort planning and design with these resorts - Disney usually PLANS better - or they seemed to back in the day. VWL should not be so small. SSR should not be so large

May I offer a different perspective? When OKW was built as the ONLY Vacation Club, Disney did not know if it would be a popular option, or be a failure. I don't don't believe they ever imagined it would become as popular as it is. When BWV opened there was plenty of resort bashing from people who didn't like the hotel style (as opposed to the OKW condo-style), didn't like the smaller rooms, the higher point costs, etc. Seems silly now that people are very upset when they can't get in there. In spite of the "issues" it sold through nicely and you started hearing comments about " I would LOVE to have a DVC at Beach Club" and "If they would only build at Wilderness Lodge I would buy in a heartbeat!". So they did build in those locations, but they pretty much had to shoehorn the DVC in - what were they going to do, tear down the hotel that was already there? Tear down part of Epcot to get a bigger BCV? The size was determined by the space. Even now, folks clamor for a DVC at AK and there is no good amount of space there.

Even as those resorts were being built, DVC memberships were selling fast. The key to selling appeared to be ONSITE. Those who have been around a while remember that all the onsite resorts sold MUCH faster than Vero and HHI. Disney even scrapped plans to build more offsite DVC because they just didn't have the main attraction - people wanted a timeshare ONSITE. Disney has given us exactly what the people have asked for - more DVC rooms onsite. Yes, it's harder to book unless you plan. My feeling is that the "Best Kept Secret" just isn't a secret anymore. DVC has given us exactly what we signed up for - nice accomodations onsite with a booking advantage.

Particularly after 9/11 we all got a little easygoing about reservations. Folks weren't traveling and ressies were easy to get. That has changed and not just at DVC. Look on the other Boards - plenty of folks upset about no rooms available when and where they want to go. In some cases we only have ourselves to blame. If we keep telling people about how great DVC is, and how wonderful the Food & Wine Fest is we just add more folks to the mix.

I have definitley digressed. Mostly I think Disney gets someone upset no matter what they do. We wanted more DVC hotels and now we are upset because that means more members. Can't win!

 

[crisi]

What I don't like is that Disney didn't do what I consider due dilligence in resort planning and design with these resorts - Disney usually PLANS better - or they seemed to back in the day.

I'm revoking this statement - or clarifying it. I think Disney and DVC does do due diligence, I just thing they don't weight the criteria I'd like to see weighted as high as I would weight it. One is "how will taking this action affect our current members" (guests, in the case of theme parks, because this isn't just a DVC thing). The second is "what will be the long term effect of this action."

This isn't a "they ruined the system with SSR" thing. This is "they've been making decisions they haven't really thought through since they put in the view structure at BWVs." (Could there really have been a time DVC thought people looking at the drive for the same number of points would be just as happy as those looking at the BW? And then, when they figured that out, they (IMO) changed the point structure the wrong direction - the standard views are as good as most of the preferred views - its the BW views that have a qualitative difference, in my mind).

To turn this off DVC, take the dining plan. On an individual level, I'm a huge fan of the idea of the dining plan. We haven't had the opportunity to use it yet, but it can really save money. Its great that other people are discovering how enjoyable a Disney vacation can be when you spend an hour sitting down for a pretty decent meal. Its great.

On an aggregate level, I feel its being oversold. People are having a hard time finding a place to eat. Reservations need to be made further out than ever. People who could wing it in the past are having to change their methodolgy. And Disney isn't adding more restaurants to feed the demand (one in AK....). Reuse Oddessy and Ariels - that would provide two more venues...Moreover, the dining plan seems to be changing menus, service and food quality - though those are perceptions of mine that may be wrong.

A Disney vacation (and I'll continue with the dining example) has always been an exercise in knowing the system and working it. Know which restaurants need ADRs, make them 90 days in advance (the old system). Know which restaurants are good and which aren't. Don't plan to eat at Boma if you are going to spend the day in the MK and intend to catch Illuminations at night. Have your big meal at lunch for lower prices and fewer crowds. People who don't know the system are at a disadvantage, but it is possible to still have a great vacation not knowing the system.

It seems that lately, the system is getting more complex and working it is getting harder. ADRs six months out! And more and more people making them for the same number of restaurants, which means that dining at dinner time in anything resembling a popular restaurant now involves planning months in advance (we used to make our ADRs about four - six weeks out with decent enough results - can't do that anymore).

(Fastpasses are another example of added complexity. A boon to those of us who know how to work the system, but the theme park board almost always has a thread somewhere about someone standing in the long line griping about the Fastpass line and not understanding the system. And the Fastpass system grants definate advantages to certain guests - families who have a "Fastpass runner role" for instance. Don't get me wrong, I like Fastpasses, but I sometimes wonder how anyone who is taking their first Disney trip without a "native guide" manages to leave happy - unless they get lucky enough to find us, or do more reading than you do in most college semesters.)

And yet, with all of that rather wordy vent, I still remain content, I suspect in part because I do understand how to work the system. Overall, Disney has done a good job balancing their customer needs with their business and I still admire what they do. But I can still look at it and not think it was done the way I'd do it (which is, of course, the right way).

(by the way, I wrote that while you were posting Mikesmom - I agree with you as well).

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

But, as other posters have reported, some resorts are filling up during the priority window...so maybe it is the BCV and BWV owners that are throwing the system off by booking multiples and renting. You can't blame the larger resorts for that, or the increased membership, you can blame your fellow somewhat "greedy" and inconsiderate owners, as well as kicking yourselves for not booking earlier.

Let's not forget the biggest renter of DVC points...Disney's CRO. Who knows how CRO utilizes all those points members trade in for DCL or CC. Disney may be renting out every spare room at BCV because it is an easier "CRO rental" than a "CRO rental" at SSR. Greedy and inconsiderate Disney!

 

[HUFF590]

Is it possible that Disney did plan ahead, and thought that SSR was going to be there best resort ever, and that so many people would want to stay there that they had to build such a large resort? they surely did surveys and interveiws etc to get the pulse of the people they always have. And its possible it just did not pan out the way they exspected it too.

 

[cobbler]

This isn't a "they ruined the system with SSR" thing. This is "they've been making decisions they haven't really thought through since they put in the view structure at BWVs." (Could there really have been a time DVC thought people looking at the drive for the same number of points would be just as happy as those looking at the BW? And then, when they figured that out, they (IMO) changed the point structure the wrong direction - the standard views are as good as most of the preferred views - its the BW views that have a qualitative difference, in my mind).

You know I often ponder if it would be beneficial to do the same sort of thing to SSR with the guaranteed DTD views.

Seems a lot don't like the Paddock, lower the point range for that area, make the rest the current point range but put DTD view in the same price range but make it a guaranteed catergory like the BW view.

I don't know this but when they changed the point structure at BWV, did they lower for the std and keep the current point structure the same for the preferred/BW view? Or did they keep the point structure the same for the std view and raise for the preferred/BW view? Or a little of both?

ETA:
PS (and this is just a general PS, not to any specific poster)
I still think SSR is still in the awkward teen phase. It hasn't quite come into its own yet. But they are listening and with the added Turf Club (which looks really really nice btw) and a few other things here and there. It needs time to come into its own.

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, FWIW, no matter where they built the resort, the addition of a new resort and thousands of new members is going to impact the usage of all the other DVC resorts. It's one of the selling points of DVC that you are not bound to stay in your home resort.

So the most recently built resort is SSR. If the most recently built resort had been The Contemporary Villas, there still would have been a large influx of new members, all of whom the "older" members are now competing with for rooms.

I would assume that BWV and BCV would fill up rapidly during the F&W Festival time period, due to their proximity to Epcot. Those of you who own there are going to have to start planning vacations earlier, so that you can take advantage of the 11 month window. That is your advantage for that property, so you'll need to start really using it. Especially for the BCV, which is a small resort, and very popular due to Stormalong Bay.

Sorry it isn't working as you wanted.

I will tell you that last year we went to the F&W Festival. Our home resort is OKW, so I booked that and waitlisted for the BWVs. We slowly but surely got all the nights we wanted at the BWVs. The last night came available the day before we left!!!!

 

[LIFERBABE]

A Disney vacation (and I'll continue with the dining example) has always been an exercise in knowing the system and working it. Know which restaurants need ADRs, make them 90 days in advance (the old system). Know which restaurants are good and which aren't. Don't plan to eat at Boma if you are going to spend the day in the MK and intend to catch Illuminations at night. Have your big meal at lunch for lower prices and fewer crowds. People who don't know the system are at a disadvantage, but it is possible to still have a great vacation not knowing the system.

Crisi, I agree with much of what you have posted although I am one of those SSR lovers. We love SSR and CHOOSE to stay there and we have Home Priority at BCV, SSR, OKW, and BWV. We love our other homes too and feel great that we can stay where we want when we want.

I do feel a pang, when people wait 3 months prior to book and then come here yelling that the sky is falling because they couldnt get their home resort and its all SSR's fault.

In the past we learned to work the system, but through the sharing of information on forums such as these, the system has learned to work us.

That is what is so frustrating to many, that they can't come here and brag about what an Awesome time they had at F&W or how great early december is without thousands of others wanting to experience the same thing. It is just human nature.
People are booking early and often based on experiences posted here. If people would calm down and stop adding to the hysteria, they may be able to get a room at their home. All these sky-falling posts do is cause anticipatory reservations by members with the booking advantage.

The playing field is leveling and everyone is booking day by day, because WE told them to! WE told them to stay at BCV and BWV for F&W. WE told them to visit in early December.

No one in 2006 is dropping 15K on DVC without doing a little research first. These new owners, know how to work the system. This board takes the learning curve to Zero.

We have to take the good with the bad.

 

[Granny]

Wilderness Lodge I think was limited in size cause of zoning restraints.....not sure about that. But, it would have been nicer to have it larger with better amenities. Has anyone seen their pool......lacking. At least the pool at the hotel makes up for it.

Please leave us happy VWL owners out of this discussion...no need to bring off topic complaints about its pool into this thread, is there?

We know we have a small resort (one more reason to love it) and yes, it was as big as they could make it with the property and zoning restrictions.

Now, back to the discussion in process...

 

[tomandrobin]

I have definitley digressed. Mostly I think Disney gets someone upset no matter what they do. We wanted more DVC hotels and now we are upset because that means more members. Can't win!

Amen to that! See peolple are putting real effort into the posts now.


And Crisi, it wasn't personal against your post, but it was the one to get me back in. It seems that everyone needs to be better informed and better prepared as more and more members are added.

Huff590....No! It's not the best and won't be. Each resort has something unique that the others do not have. Its a personal thing. There is no best resort. But, Atlantis @ Pardise Island comes close....just no mouse!

 

[Beca]

Beca

The point was that she stated thay the larger resort threw things out of whack, but forgetting that OKW was the first.....and was very large. Her point of reference was almost as OKW does not exist, and SSR is this large monster destroying DVC.....its a DVCzilla! If Disney adds four more resorts, it does not change anything with the "home" booking window. If DVC built two DVC resorts where SSR sits now (kind of like BWV and BCV next to each other) that still would not change that "home" resort booking. Its not the size that matters, unless you are staying there.

I am not trying to be hostile. And I was not attacking anyone. Just pointing out what is being over looked. Peolple assume things without thinking them thru.

Thank you for such a kind response!! And, I totally understand what you are saying. Maybe it is (as another poster suggested) a "selective memory" thing...people are remembering things the way they were after 9/11, instead of the way they were "in the old days" before 9/11. And yes, WDW attendance is up 5%, and Disney is going to do whatever they can to keep it that way.

My point is this, "regulars" on this board debate this....and, debate this....and, debate this until we just can't stand it anymore. We get mad at each other, DVC, and ourselves....and then, we drop it. And, then a new person comes on the boards and expresses a sincere concern, and the responses she gets make her so uncomfortable (in their snarkiness) that she decides not post here anymore. Then, she comes back on another thread just to tell us that, and the thread gets kind of snarky again. I just felt really bad for her. I mean, if someone wants to get snarky with me...go ahead...I've been around a long time, can take it...and, probably deserve it If someone wants to tell me to stop whining...go ahead!!! But, when someone is so upset they are thinking of selling (with great sadness), to me...that's just not whining.

Anyway...I don't mean to "digress" so much. And, I apologize if I got snarky with you last night. I just think we need to try to be civil with each other.



Beca

 

[Sammie]

I think the biggest point many of us forget is what is shared here, problems booking at 7 months, being shut out of home resort at select times, the situation with SSR, liking it, not liking it, is a very small percentage of what really goes on with DVC and it's members.

Just like the other thread about renter liability. I am sure some on this forum were shocked that that type of thing happens and the extent of it and the fact that a member had to be held responsible. Many would be amazed at what actually does go on at DVC resorts.

There is no way anyone can deny that renting has definitely increased. Only in the last year or so did it become part of the unofficial guides planning advice and there was a time when Net forums for renting did not exisit.

So possibly the old adage " We have seen the enemy and he is us" holds true in this situation too.

 

[tomandrobin]

Thank you for such a kind response!! I just think we need to try to be civil with each other.



Beca

When comes down to it, we are all one big happy family!
::cop:

 

[Mic]

I am the worst kind of member...I own all over the place, and I sometimes make last minute plans/changes. In the past, I was able to book BWV 11 months out, day by day for Christmas, Easter, etc., but those days are gone now that my kids are older and more involved in extra-curricular activities. I, too, have noticed that it has become harder and harder to get a room at seven months (or less) out. But I can't say I'm surprised...Disney's "best-kept" secret is also their "most-advertised". I will just have to plan better if I want to make the most of my points.

 

[TCPluto]

this is the second "hostile" posting by a SSR owner that I have seen tonight.

I just recently re-read all of the "BCV is totally run down" threads, and NEVER in those threads did a BCV owner get bent out of shape, or hostile over people posting negative things about their resort.

Huh??? I guess this confirms it. BCV owners are just a better class of people.....

 

[TCPluto]

Is it possible that Disney did plan ahead, and thought that SSR was going to be there best resort ever, and that so many people would want to stay there that they had to build such a large resort? they surely did surveys and interveiws etc to get the pulse of the people they always have. And its possible it just did not pan out the way they exspected it too.

Good call Huff.

As opposed to not panning out, maybe more time has to elapse for members to grow into the resort and what it offers.

 

[crisi]

I'm having a hard time believe that Disney made SSR three times as attractive as VWL....Its a nice resort, but what we are saying is that their market research proved that what they built meant that 3 out of 4 DVC members prefer it over BCV or VWL (they are approximately the same size) and that it will be over twice as popular as BWV.

Please tell me what they did to make it three times as attractive as VWL/BCV?

This is where Dean's point comes in - perhaps had they made the rooms larger, or the point structure lower, or both, given guests access to spa features (like steam rooms and adult only spas and pools - not the services, but the features), added a waterpark like pool - it would have been attractive enough.

 

[HUFF590]

Huff590....No! It's not the best and won't be. Each resort has something unique that the others do not have. Its a personal thing. There is no best resort. But, Atlantis @ Pardise Island comes close....just no mouse!

I did not say it was and I dont believe it is , what I said was is it possible that Disney thought it was going to be the best, please read more carefully.