Welcome To The Real World, Kiddies

[morgan98]

I have worked in public accounting for 23 years now and we have always had paid interns. The current ones are paid $25/hour.

I agree that universities really need to teach the current generation what to expect and how to behave in the workplace. The new hires/interns come to us not understanding about busy season and overtime (for which they are paid). I also cannot wrap my head around not understanding the dress code. Those of us that are here permanently dress appropriately (business casual or business professional) based on client/work requirements. I have no idea how the interns can think that flip flops and summer dresses that barely cover their underwear is appropriate. I cannot believe parents are not providing some kind of guidance as to what may or may not be appropriate in a professional office. Dressing appropriately is not rocket science. I also understand wanting to wear casual clothes. Heck, I would be happy to wear more casual clothes on a regular basis. However, I know the industry and the expectations, so in the grand scheme of things the issue is not even on my radar.

 

[Christine]

My department has an intern for the summer. We are an engineering department, and most of our work is desk work (design engineering) but sometimes we do go out in the field to inspect equipment. On the second day of his internship, our intern said that he didn't want to spend all summer at his desk. I didn't even know how to respond, but I gathered my thoughts and said something like "We'll see if we can get you out in the field".

Now, I don't really begrudge him the desire to go inspect stuff, but he really should have found a better way to express his wishes. He's made a few more comments that made me think his college needs a class on "how to behave during an internship", but in general he is a good kid with a lot of enthusiasm. I could see him signing a petition about a dress code, though.

I know that my son's college does not give a class on how to act while working, but this past year (he is in his third year of college), he joined a business fraternity and it seems like they spend a lot of time guiding them on business attire, interview and speaking skills, and how to conduct yourself during internships or "first jobs."

 

[MariMama]

I'm not defending the people who got fired, but I think there's something that needs to be said: the dress code was ridiculous! Employees were required to wear leather shoes! I don't even own a pair of leather shoes, and couldn't afford a pair even if I wanted/ needed one. Still, the kid knew the rules when he/she agreed to work there.

My 19 year old college student wears dress shoes to his summer job that has a business casual dress code. He wears dress pants, a button down and dress shoes every day. Personally, I feel he is overdressed but that is what he wanted to wear, so Mama ain't discouraging him from dressing better than he needs to! I think adults can manage to wear the appropriate footwear.

 

[Christine]

I cannot believe parents are not providing some kind of guidance as to what may or may not be appropriate in a professional office. Dressing appropriately is not rocket science.

Where I work, this seems to be a bigger issue with the females. Male business attire is pretty straight forward and hasn't changed much over the centuries (except for the "business casual" wear). Over the past few years, I have heard a common thread on some of the young women that have had to be addressed due to improper dress. A couple of them told me they had no clue and they did go out shopping with their moms (who did not work) and thought it was okay to just buy something out of the dress department at Macy's or wherever. When I thought about it, I guess that could be the case. I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

 

[MariMama]

Where I work, this seems to be a bigger issue with the females. Male business attire is pretty straight forward and hasn't changed much over the centuries (except for the "business casual" wear). Over the past few years, I have heard a common thread on some of the young women that have had to be addressed due to improper dress. A couple of them told me they had no clue and they did go out shopping with their moms (who did not work) and thought it was okay to just buy something out of the dress department at Macy's or wherever. When I thought about it, I guess that could be the case. I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

Bull honky. I've never worked in a corporate office and I'm aware of what is and isn't appropriate attire for women.

 

[Christine]

Bull honky. I've never worked in a corporate office and I'm aware of what is and isn't appropriate attire for women.

Don't take offense. I don't think that applies to everyone. Just what I was told. I can see how it happens.

 

[Magpie]

Where I work, this seems to be a bigger issue with the females. Male business attire is pretty straight forward and hasn't changed much over the centuries (except for the "business casual" wear). Over the past few years, I have heard a common thread on some of the young women that have had to be addressed due to improper dress. A couple of them told me they had no clue and they did go out shopping with their moms (who did not work) and thought it was okay to just buy something out of the dress department at Macy's or wherever. When I thought about it, I guess that could be the case. I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

What's wrong with the dress department at Macy's?

While certainly you don't want anything too colourful or see-through (and definitely not those shoes), this sort of thing seems perfectly office-appropriate to me. (Mind you, I work in blue jeans and fandom tees, so what do I know?)

 

[Cantw8]

We just had a young woman here sent home last week for wearing a strapless sun dress with flip flops. It was an adorable dress....for a picnic or a day at the beach. It was an appropriate length but it was STRAPLESS. Did I mention it was STRAPLESS???? Just an elastic tube top at work Flip flops????

 

[Christine]

What's wrong with the dress department at Macy's?

While certainly you don't want anything too colourful or see-through (and definitely not those shoes), this sort of thing seems perfectly office-appropriate to me. (Mind you, I work in blue jeans and fandom tees, so what do I know?)

Absolutely nothing. I buy tons of stuff from them. But not everything is okay. That's my point. Someone who does not know what is okay in a corporate-climate office might think they are safe shopping at Macy's but they do have their share of dresses that barely cover the butt, slinky, etc. that do not belong in an office environment.

 

[Magpie]

Absolutely nothing. I buy tons of stuff from them. But not everything is okay. That's my point. Someone who does not know what is okay in a corporate-climate office might think they are safe shopping at Macy's but they do have their share of dresses that barely cover the butt, slinky, etc. that do not belong in an office environment.

True... I'm not sure there's any place that "safe" to shop at. Most women's stores offer a range of garments appropriate to a wide variety of occasions, and expect you to know the difference.

 

[Monykalyn]

Most kids I know request an "interview suit" as a graduation present.

My daughter is going off to college this fall and we have been shopping for "nice" business casual clothes. She expects to interview for internships and probably study abroad grants.

I'm not defending the people who got fired, but I think there's something that needs to be said: the dress code was ridiculous! Employees were required to wear leather shoes! I don't even own a pair of leather shoes, and couldn't afford a pair even if I wanted/ needed one. Still, the kid knew the rules when he/she agreed to work there.

Good thing you never worked at Disney!- this may have change but I was REQUIRED to have dress flat with a heel that was high enough to slip a pencil under foot/heel part. Leather, black. (I still have the "Company look" book somewhere (from 1991)

Where I work, this seems to be a bigger issue with the females. Male business attire is pretty straight forward and hasn't changed much over the centuries (except for the "business casual" wear). Over the past few years, I have heard a common thread on some of the young women that have had to be addressed due to improper dress. A couple of them told me they had no clue and they did go out shopping with their moms (who did not work) and thought it was okay to just buy something out of the dress department at Macy's or wherever. When I thought about it, I guess that could be the case. I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

Or the females think that nice "going out" clothes are ok. We have had to send several home with too low cut shirts. Yes you look very nice but having 1/2 a chestal area muscle hanging out is NOT appropriate hospital attire. And no open toed shoes. Just because that surgeon who has been here for 10 years wears them does not entitle you to do the same.

The really irritating part of this is the dress code has had to get much more detailed and it is sent to the interns months before they show up AND reviewed the first week of class. And we still have issues every. single. year. FWIW-when we finally do get through their head to treat this like an extended job interview most of them shape up pretty well. Case in point was an intern 2 years ago-was caught slacking a couple times, 1 st time mild warning, 2nd time stern warning including a discussion with the director. The staff member who caught him sat him down for the warning and really talked to him about expectations, that this is his reputation etc. Turned out the kid just needed to hear that-shaped right up and became an outstanding intern - one we were happy to provide references for to get him his first job!. So yeah-just kids-and remind them that this internship does matter. Most fields are "small world" groups and do not burn bridges-ever.

 

[Cantw8]

Absolutely nothing. I buy tons of stuff from them. But not everything is okay. That's my point. Someone who does not know what is okay in a corporate-climate office might think they are safe shopping at Macy's but they do have their share of dresses that barely cover the butt, slinky, etc. that do not belong in an office environment.

You thinking of Macy's or Fredrick's of Hollywood????

 

[morgan98]

Where I work, this seems to be a bigger issue with the females. Male business attire is pretty straight forward and hasn't changed much over the centuries (except for the "business casual" wear). Over the past few years, I have heard a common thread on some of the young women that have had to be addressed due to improper dress. A couple of them told me they had no clue and they did go out shopping with their moms (who did not work) and thought it was okay to just buy something out of the dress department at Macy's or wherever. When I thought about it, I guess that could be the case. I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

This may be a fair point as I understand everyone may not understand what is appropriate in an office setting. However, to go to an interview, women and men are still expected to wear suits. It seems to me the school can provide more guidance as to what appropriate attire is in an office environment. Flip flops and too short of dresses are fine for shopping or casual weekend wear. However, I find it hard to believe that almost everyone would not know that is not what is generally worn in a more professional setting.

Also, maybe the intern dresses inappropriately the first day. By looking around it is not difficult to see what the permanent employees are wearing. In our industry, we hire many young people straight out of college. So an intern should be able to look at the person permanently hired six months ago and figure it out.

I 100% agree that it is a more slippery slope for women than for men. Women have many more choices with more variation. Not all skirts are appropriate, nor are all dresses, nor are all pants. It is pretty much safe for men to buy a pair of dress slacks and a few button down shirts or polos tucked into their pants and call it done (within reason).

 

[JimMIA]

There are two things in this story that I think are telling.

One is that it's extremely unlikely that these kids (all of whom I'm sure are great kids) learned very much from this experience. I'm sure they went away feeling discriminated against, oppressed, and of course -- OFFENDED!

I would hope that maybe they'd pause for a minute and ask themselves, "How could you be so stupid, stupid???" But they won't.

The other thing that strikes me is the fact that they learned very well how to draft, craft, circulate, and present petitions for redress of horrible treatment by their employer. I'm sure the petition was a work of art, a thing of beauty!

But they haven't yet learned the old "...because I'm the boss and you're NOT" concept. And I'm confident they haven't learned it even now. They'll probably go back to campus and hold a rally!

 

[ariel71]

I mean, if you never worked in a corporate office and didn't really see anyone, how would you know.

Maybe this crazy new-fangled thing called the internet? It takes five seconds to google "what does a business casual dress code mean" or derivatives thereof. Then do some more research from there depending on the company and industry. There are SO MANY online resources/guides out there at their fingertips that none of us had when we started out. Or even more directly, ask the recruiter or HR lead. Get a few outfits on the nicer end of the business casual spectrum to start and then fill in the rest of your wardrobe once you're actually in the office and can see what the environment is like. It's really not that hard. Sorry, annoyed at this whole lack of resourcefulness and common sense, not you.

 

[Magpie]

My daughter is going off to college this fall and we have been shopping for "nice" business casual clothes. She expects to interview for internships and probably study abroad grants.


Good thing you never worked at Disney!- this may have change but I was REQUIRED to have dress flat with a heel that was high enough to slip a pencil under foot/heel part. Leather, black. (I still have the "Company look" book somewhere (from 1991)

Or the females think that nice "going out" clothes are ok. We have had to send several home with too low cut shirts. Yes you look very nice but having 1/2 a chestal area muscle hanging out is NOT appropriate hospital attire. And no open toed shoes. Just because that surgeon who has been here for 10 years wears them does not entitle you to do the same.

The really irritating part of this is the dress code has had to get much more detailed and it is sent to the interns months before they show up AND reviewed the first week of class. And we still have issues every. single. year. FWIW-when we finally do get through their head to treat this like an extended job interview most of them shape up pretty well. Case in point was an intern 2 years ago-was caught slacking a couple times, 1 st time mild warning, 2nd time stern warning including a discussion with the director. The staff member who caught him sat him down for the warning and really talked to him about expectations, that this is his reputation etc. Turned out the kid just needed to hear that-shaped right up and became an outstanding intern - one we were happy to provide references for to get him his first job!. So yeah-just kids-and remind them that this internship does matter. Most fields are "small world" groups and do not burn bridges-ever.

Good luck to your daughter! Mine just finished her second year, and is currently enjoying her second summer internship in the bio lab. She has an article or two of "nice" clothes, but hasn't needed them yet. It seems most of her superiors wear blue jeans (or even sweats!) under their lab coats. She did wear a dress when she gave a presentation at work last year, but I got the impression she might have been the only one of the interns who did. (She didn't mind - she was excited and wanted to dress up a little bit anyway.)

She was invited to a STEM conference last month and brought dressier clothes... but again, it seemed everyone was in jeans (fortunately she also had blue jeans and plain tees, so she could blend in). She was a little flustered, actually, because on the last day of the conference, her boss kidnapped her and some others and took everyone on a brewery tour. My teetotaler of a daughter confessed to me that she was secretly disappointed she missed out on the last few seminars.

The rules were a lot clearer when she was volunteering at the hospital in high school. There the dress coat was black slacks, closed toe shoes (not sneakers), and no shirts with any logos or images on them. Plus the hospital volunteer smock, of course.

 

[Christine]

Maybe this crazy new-fangled thing called the internet? It takes five seconds to google "what does a business casual dress code mean" or derivatives thereof. Then do some more research from there depending on the company and industry. There are SO MANY online resources/guides out there at their fingertips that none of us had when we started out. Or even more directly, ask the recruiter or HR lead. Get a few outfits on the nicer end of the business casual spectrum to start and then fill in the rest of your wardrobe once you're actually in the office and can see what the environment is like. It's really not that hard. Sorry, annoyed at this whole lack of resourcefulness and common sense, not you.

I feel the same way myself. At my son's fraternity they did give a presentation with slides and pictures of what to wear and what not to wear. You'd think anyone could figure it out today on the internet. Sadly, it's not the case. I'm not really sure what they are thinking. In my office, they interns have tons of people to look to and see what is appropriate. It seems they choose to ignore it.

 

[I loveStitchnippyjon]

To me, the controversy in less about the dress code, and more about the audacity of some temporary interns to think they should be able to change company policy.

 

[VandVsmama]

When I was in college in the 90's, universities did not "teach" interview skills or proper business attire. There were no classes to take about it and professors did not lecture about it in class. However, there was a very helpful and useful career center on campus and THAT is where you'd go for all of that sort of help. The career center on campus would even help you out by doing mock job interviews with you where they'd critique how you answered their questions and give you suggestions on how to frame your answers better the next time around.

EVERY STUDENT on campus knew about this. But you were not REQUIRED to even step foot in the place. So it was the responsibility of the individual student to be an adult and seek out the help that he/she felt that he/she needed.

Hopefully those interns learned a couple of very valuable life lessons about their experience:

• choose wisely & decide whether the dress code really is your hill to die on
• petitions & protests don't always work at the work place
• your employer doesn't really owe you a job and every employee is replaceable
• the world doesn't revolve around you and your desire to wear shorts and flip flops to work. If you want to dress like that at work, go work in a surf shop.

 

[Poohforyou]

I'm actually working for a new company. I dress business some days and business casual other days.

I actually decided to look if my company has a dress code. It does and every day I see people violating it. Heck, in the winter I think I violated it a few times with a too short skirt, tights and boot outfit

It depends on management to enforce the rules. I personally wouldn't push the envelope too far or demand change.

Throughout life these kids must have had to do things they didn't like. My dd's school has a dress code. She has a dress code for concerts and awards ceremonies. I don't know why it's a foreign concept.

As for California, I have family there. They have dress codes and don't get allowances.