Wearing All Black Today

[damo]

It sounds like lots of people thought Josh only was succeeding because of the military. Well, up here in Canada, I know many, many who thought Josh was the only contestant with idol quality and we certainly aren't influenced by his military associations.

 

[damo]

Originally posted by Damo Kelsie, I totally disagree. This was not only a talent show. It was an "idol" show. An idol must have more than just talent. He or she must have the entire package and be someone that people will look up to and admire. If that person is unkempt, obnoxious, conceited, etc. etc. etc. then they cannot be an idol. It goes far beyond just talent.

Originally posted by Kelsie
So, you can't admire and look up to a 'large person'? I totally disagree, take 'Oprah', 'Pavoratti', Wynonna for example. People that many admire.

Also, what is your definition of "unkempt"? Does it have to do with weight, sweat? Help me understand.

Where does this leave "Santa Clause' an 'idol' to millions.

Why can't this discussion just be based on what it's really about, Your favorite either did or didn't win, period. People are unhappy or happy with the outcome. Why does it have to deteriorate into a debate about the person, and not their talent?

Wow, I wasn't even referring to Ruben!!! I simply said that the American Idol show is more than just a "talent" show. I never said anything about Ruben's appearance or eluded to the fact the he was any of the words I chose. I was simply stating examples of things that an idol "should not" be to make a point. I never even mentioned size!!! If talent was the only thing that was important then why did they change Clay's hair, Ruben's 205 shirt? Why did they kick out Frenchie and Cory? Because an idol must be respected as well as have talent.

IMHO, both Clay and Ruben are men that can be respected and have talent. But actually, neither would have been my pick as idol.

 

[dizneenut]

Originally posted by madonna31
Yep - then the Ruben fans would be Clay - bashing...

No we wouldn't. None of the Ruben fans have bashed Clay at all. At least not in the threads I have read.

As for the voting being fixed, and Ruben having more phone lines set up, all I can say is

As for nobody telling Ruben to lose weight, well, maybe that is because they realize he isn't going to be able to just lose weight. Vanessa, for example, could easily shed 5-10 pounds. Ruben, on the other hand, wouldn't matter if he shed 5-10 pounds, he'd still be a big guy.

Clay is getting signed, he has a CD coming out, he's going to be successful, so why all the whining? They both are going to have very successful careers.

 

[RweTHEREyet]

I think the whining comes because a lot of us truly believe that Clay deserved the title.

 

[stormi65]

Clay is my idol no matter what. His voice and stage presence is mesmorizing. He has a huge career ahead of him.

 

[sgtdisney]

I have to chime in here. Frankly, I didn't care which one of the two won. My favorites were voted off last week and the week before. I will also say that I think both Clay and Ruben are wildly talented and both will be able to make loads of money.

The one point I do want to make and this is not a slam against anyone at all but just an observation. The judges, and Simon in particular, have had bad things to say at one time or another against everyone on the show.. Everyone that is except Ruben. I suppose that they are entitled to have their favorites just as much as anyone else. I just find it too obvious when they are telling people to lose weight like Kimberley, Vanessa, even Josh and not to mention it to Ruben. Personally I don't think anyone's weight should come into this. When they weren't going after someone's weight, they were going after their dress, their hair, they (Simon) even told Ryan Starr last season to have a nose job.

Isn't it weird that Simon would attack everyone he could on their appearance, but never said one single word on the one part of Ruben's appearance that stood out? Again, this is just an observation. I don't care about Ruben's weight, Clay's eyes or anything else, they all were amazing singers. I just think that if Simon is going to be mean, he would do it universally.

 

[AllyandJack]

I always thought it would be fixed. I thought last year's was fixed. I think the whole voting thing is a scam. I think the producers were going to "crown" whomever they felt they could market better. Now...I don't see anything wrong with this. With or without the voting, it's still fun to watch. My only problem is charging people to text message if, in fact, the votes really don't count.

Let me be really clear here....I think Ruben deserved to "win." I, personally, like Clay better, but Ruben was not undeserving of a record deal and I might buy his CD if I hear a song on the radio that appeals to me. I liked all of the top 3. I think they put Ruben in the bottom two that time to get some drama out of the show because it was getting too predictable. I think it was decided in a meeting of record producers and not by the voting public. Again....there's nothing wrong with that, until you start charging for the text messaging.

Call me a skeptic, but I think any of these shows where you call in and vote are fixed by the people running the show. For example, on Star Search...when they do the finals and there are 3 junior contestants...almost always, the two that don't win are tied. No matter how it ends after the judges put in their 2 cents, once America votes, the two that lose are tied. Probably to make them feel better. Again, nothing wrong with that.

Geez....I never realized how paranoid I am!! In any event, I liked Clay better, but I really did like Ruben. He seems like a good guy and he does have talent, so fixed or not, it wasn't a complete rip off.

 

[damo]

You know, if this had been a one day competition, the whole thing would have been different. But after two months, we've gotten to know the contestants and their personalities and really feel like they are the kids next door. It's no wonder people get upset. There is a definate emotional attachment to these guys!!! Both have such sweet images and temperments and I feel like I have known them for such a long time. Ruben's dimples and Clay's puppy dog eyes. It really is hard to put one in front of the other. We like them both in different ways. Good luck gentlemen!!!

 

[Kelsie]

LOL!! @ Touchy!!

Not at all, if you read my post that you quoted, you would know that I was responding to others who DID mention weight. When I read your "unkempt" comment, I just assumed that we were on the same page.

Sorry, if I misunderstood!

 

[Paperina]

I made my husband listen to Clay's Bridge Over Troubled Waters. He has not watched the show with me all season - he's not a fan of pop music. At the end of the song, he said Clay gave him the chills - he could understand why I thought he was so good. It made my day!

 

[Tinkbell]

I was happy with the outccome and I really liked the song that Ruben sang 3 times. If Clay had won, we would have heard "Bridge Over Troubeld Water" for the third time.

 

[mom42860]

2bemarried, Bravo, well said, I think Clay was happier Ruben won than if he won himself. A couple of great guys who don't deserve this thread.

 

[Kirby]

I think Clay was happier Ruben won than if he won himself

I agree. Clay will do well whether or not he won and will probably have a lot more freedom than Rueben when it is all said and done.

They both are very talented. Even though I was rooting for Clay I instinctively knew Rueben would win. I wish them both the best.

I hope that in the next American Idol set of try outs they stop looking at appearance and consider only talent. I think that some talented people may have been passed over because of looks this last time. I remember one girl in California who had a great voice but Simon told her she needed to loose weight. This was early on in the tryouts before they realized that the really talented ones were not necessarily slim and trim. Can you imagine what this season's show would have been like without Rueben, Clay, Kimberly Locke, Vanessa and Frenchie if they had been left out because of size or looks?

 

[CookieGVB]

Originally posted by Kirby
Can you imagine what this season's show would have been like without Rueben, Clay, Kimberly Locke, Vanessa and Frenchie if they had been left out because of size or looks?

Sure I can. It was Season 1.

I'm so glad the judges were a little more open this time around. Maybe next time they'll perform behind a screen, and THEN the judges will get to see what they look like. Can you imagine the talent we'd see then???

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by Paperina
I made my husband listen to Clay's Bridge Over Troubled Waters. He has not watched the show with me all season - he's not a fan of pop music. At the end of the song, he said Clay gave him the chills - he could understand why I thought he was so good. It made my day!

Did you have him listen to one of Ruben's songs? He may have had the same reaction.

 

[springsteenmickey]

No we wouldn't. None of the Ruben fans have bashed Clay at all. At least not in the threads I have read

Because there is nothing to bash about Clay

Seriously, no one is bashing Ruben, we all know that the man can sing. We are only bashing the Judges and their lack of criticism towards Ruben when it was warranted. I agreed with the Judges that Clay had all those facial expressions - he worked on them and moved on. Ruben was not perfect my friends.

Did you have him listen to one of Ruben's songs? He may have had the same reaction

If he has ever heard a Barry White or Luther song then yes he would have heard Ruben singing.

Both guys were great, the judges were sub-par

 

[madonna31]

No we wouldn't. None of the Ruben fans have bashed Clay at all. At least not in the threads I have read

No – maybe YOU wouldn’t…but obviously you haven’t been frequenting the same threads that I have…have you read just this thread alone?!? The only reason I posted was because of someone calling Clay a dweeb (he is getting bashed and he didn’t even win…?)

I totally agree with Boss - I for one did not and WILL not bash Ruben; the man can sing! I can't speak for all the Clay fans on this thread, but I for one was only bashing the Judges and their lack of criticism towards Ruben vs. ALL the other contestants...please don't paint us all with the same brush!!!

It sounds like lots of people thought Josh only was succeeding because of the military

Nope – just that he was HORRIBLE on two separate nights (the song Celebration comes to mind) and he escaped it – both times…I happen to know a *dedicated* Josh fan who will even admit that! "Lucy....'splain..."

Clay had won, we would have heard "Bridge Over Troubeld Water" for the third time

Nope – you wouldn’t of – you would have heard his new single - just as you heard Ruben's, and how you heard Kelly's...the song that AI MUST promote!!!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Originally posted by madonna31
Nope – just that he was HORRIBLE on two separate nights (the song Celebration comes to mind) and he escaped it – both times…I happen to know a *dedicated* Josh fan who will even admit that! "Lucy....'splain..."

Awhhh geez Madonna, don't drag me into this train wreck. Yes Josh did escape being kicked off during weeks he should have been, only to be booted when he finally had a pretty darn good week. Oh well. And yes with him it wasn't just talent but image for me. Sorta like another person who is running around here with regard to Julia.

That's all I'm saying with regard to this thread unless subpoenaed .

 

[madonna31]

Yes Jas - you are 100% correct...it was sad that Josh got kicked off on what IMO was one of his BEST performances of the compitition...

I was in front of the big TV at the Tambu Lounge at the Poly for that (along with about 50 other guests and CM's) EVERYONE was watching and EVERYONE was near throwing things at the TV in the beloved *happiest place on earth* when it was announced...

NOTHIN' wrong with Josh's image (be it the military or the fact that he's just so darn cute!)

 

[Paperina]

disneyjunkie,

Did you have him listen to one of Ruben's songs? He may have had the same reaction.

Yes, my husband also listened to Ruben. No, he did not get chills. I was shocked when my husband said he had for Clay's song - he is not easily impressed!