We want to redhead!

[FLkid]

I received two different Facebook notifications today inviting me to sign a petition to tell Disney to keep this scene....


Are you kidding me?


Come on people. I get the nostalgia/tongue-in-cheek backhanded jokes this scene casts but in any other situation if this type of thing was depicted on a ride there would be down right OUTRAGE. Magic bands would be burned, Mickey posters with "SEXUAL HARRASSMENT SUPPORTERS" painted across them hung every where...

We all love pirates. We love it because it's old and corny. But at the end of the day if taking out one scene saves a parent from having to lie to their child about the light hearted depiction of sex slavery in a Disney park then I don't see the need to hang onto it.

It's not a museum.

 

[Robo]

Come on people. I get the nostalgia/tongue-in-cheek backhanded jokes this scene casts but in any other situation if this type of thing was depicted on a ride there would be down right OUTRAGE. Magic bands would be burned, Mickey posters with "SEXUAL HARRASSMENT SUPPORTERS" painted across them hung every where...

Obviously, that's not the case, as it has existed without this kind of reaction for 50 years.

 

[charmed59]

They've made various changes to the ride through the years, the two most obvious being when they changed the chase scene from chasing the women to chasing the women for food or objects, and when they add Jack Sparrow in. Every time there were folks that were not thrilled, and if those changes meant some people quit riding the ride it doesn't seem to affect the overall popularity. The new fans replace the old. I believe that is what will happen here.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I received two different Facebook notifications today inviting me to sign a petition to tell Disney to keep this scene....

I've heard of 3 such petitions so far. 85-87% pretty steadily "not offended" in this poll. Fair to say that probably most people would opt to keep it? Interesting.

 

[FLkid]

Obviously, that's not the case, as it has existed without this kind of reaction for 50 years.

Which is why it's been allowed, Because it's always been. My point is if Disney added this type of scene to a NEW ride it would be a hot topic.

I don't have an issue with the scene. I also don't have children and I'm not easily offended. I just think it's a silly thing to get upset about,

but I guess I can understand, if they decided to take out the dog holding the jailers keys or the donkey singing I would be a bit upset

 

[DaisyJ]

The petition to keep it as is (on chang.org, I think) has over 33,000 signatures. It is the same one HopperFan linked to a couple pages ago.

 

[PrincessAlways]

It's just stupid! I agree with the person who said that it's a ride......that's all.

 

[godders]

I've heard of 3 such petitions so far. 85-87% pretty steadily "not offended" in this poll. Fair to say that probably most people would opt to keep it? Interesting.

There is a difference between not being offended by something and opting to keep it.

Personally I didn't find it offensive because it is of it's time and quite frankly as a woman I'm used to seeing this kind of thing being seen as acceptable.

Doesn't mean it isn't misogynistic or wrong. It is what it is.

What has shocked me are the attitudes trying to play this off as funny in this day and age or as "pc sensitivities". Everyday women are raped and treated as property. It's not a problem in some foreign land it is a problem all over including in marriages probably in your neighbourhood. Everyday women all over the world are denied things or put in situations because they are not seen to be important/as valued as men or because men hold the power.

When we tell our children there is nothing wrong with this scene or that people are overly sensitive about it or whatever we say to down play it we are reenforcing the idea that it's ok to see women as property and that is it a laughing matter. One example of this doesn't mean much but it is constantly repeated in the outside world.

That is why this scene is an issue and while I don't think there was an epic demand for change I'm still glad I'm getting a female pirate who's able to stand up for herself. Girl power!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That is why this scene is an issue and while I don't think there was an epic demand for change I'm still glad I'm getting a female pirate who's able to stand up for herself. Girl power!

So a female criminal who will join in on the drunkenness and burning and looting of the town? Girl power!!

The scene made sense in the context of the bad behavior throughout this entire ride. I think clarity around "pirates are bad and are doing bad things" is a little cleaner to me, as a parent of a son and a daughter. Easy to explain. I'm not looking for them to look up to pirates!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is why this scene is an issue and while I don't think there was an epic demand for change I'm still glad I'm getting a female pirate who's able to stand up for herself. Girl power!

I have seen where this has been brought up on multiple threads.

But the way you describe it and the way others have too in that it is girl power or female empowerment...I'm not sure that should be the goal nor used as a way to make the ride make a person feel better.

Wiki has the following definition of piracy: "Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence by ship- or boat-borne attackers upon another ship or a coastal area, typically with the goal of stealing cargo and other valuable items or properties. Those who engage in acts of piracy are called pirates."

Perhaps equality (as this is a current trend as well) is a better way of spinning it rather than girl power or female empowerment. Pirates are not good. Elizabeth Swann as a character doesn't do all good things and she is a pirate. She does however rise to become an equal among pirates in her own right but she still doesn't do all good. I wouldn't call some of her actions that made her a pirate as girl power or female empowerment.

 

[godders]

So a female criminal who will join in on the drunkenness and burning and looting of the town? Girl power!!

The scene made sense in the context of the bad behavior throughout this entire ride. I think clarity around "pirates are bad and are doing bad things" is a little cleaner to me, as a parent of a son and a daughter. Easy to explain. I'm not looking for them to look up to pirates!

But it is girl power in the context of the ride when she is surrounded by male pirates. She is joining in. She is no longer a victim in this scenario. Plus as others have mentioned, the films have made pirate activities into more of a grey area.

I have seen where this has been brought up on multiple threads.

But the way you describe it and the way others have too in that it is girl power or female empowerment...I'm not sure that should be the goal nor used as a way to make the ride make a person feel better.

Wiki has the following definition of piracy: "Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence by ship- or boat-borne attackers upon another ship or a coastal area, typically with the goal of stealing cargo and other valuable items or properties. Those who engage in acts of piracy are called pirates."

Perhaps equality (as this is a current trend as well) is a better way of spinning it rather than girl power or female empowerment. Pirates are not good. Elizabeth Swann as a character doesn't do all good things and she is a pirate. She does however rise to become an equal among pirates in her own right but she still doesn't do all good. I wouldn't call some of her actions that made her a pirate as girl power or female empowerment.

But girl power/female empowerment/equality are all about the same thing in this instance.

She is being treated equally (well perhaps not equally given the male to female pirate ratio lol) so she is being made into a pirate and its empowering because she has power and is making those choices for herself.

Whether those choices are good or bad is a non-issue. Everyone makes good and bad choices and those choices are viewed as good or bad by different people. For example having sex in a loving relationship but out if wedlock...for some people that is a bad choice.

The problem of using Elizabeth Swann as an example (other than the issue of Keira Knightly) is that she has a whole story and character written for her so you know the motivations for her actions (love for a man if I remember correctly). The Red-head doesn't have that which means we get to chose her story for ourselves. Maybe she was abandoned by her parents or her father was a pirate or her husband was killed by pirates and she's on a killing spree of revenge hunting down those responsible and getting close to them by joining them. We just don't know.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But it is girl power in the context of the ride when she is surrounded by male pirates. She is joining in. She is no longer a victim in this scenario. Plus as others have mentioned, the films have made pirate activities into more of a grey area.

The ride doesn't sketch their activities as being in a "grey area" (drinking, looting, burning down the city). And there are some explanations I've read in this very thread that don't see the redhead as a "victim". I won't personally argue that, exactly, but regardless...

As I said, I think this is an odd reason/context to invoke "girl power", as another poster mentioned as well.

Fantastic: so the ride will now include a woman behaving as badly as all the men. Progress!!

I just don't see it that way at all -- which is fine -- don't have to agree!!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But girl power/female empowerment/equality are all about the same thing in this instance.

She is being treated equally (well perhaps not equally given the male to female pirate ratio lol) so she is being made into a pirate and its empowering because she has power and is making those choices for herself.

Whether those choices are good or bad is a non-issue. Everyone makes good and bad choices and those choices are viewed as good or bad by different people. For example having sex in a loving relationship but out if wedlock...for some people that is a bad choice.

The problem of using Elizabeth Swann as an example (other than the issue of Keira Knightly) is that she has a whole story and character written for her so you know the motivations for her actions (love for a man if I remember correctly). The Red-head doesn't have that which means we get to chose her story for ourselves. Maybe she was abandoned by her parents or her father was a pirate or her husband was killed by pirates and she's on a killing spree of revenge hunting down those responsible and getting close to them by joining them. We just don't know.

Yeah no, girl power and female empowerment is not the same as equality in this context (ETA: at least IMO). Perhaps therein lies the issue in understanding what I was saying.

I don't think there is any problem with using Elizabeth Swann at all here but okie dokie. Story or lack of story isn't really an issue. Other than getting off the ship alive and understanding that Jack was the sought after person what does her love story with Will have to do with kissing Jack Sparrow while shackling him to the ship and letting him be eaten by the Kraken but not before he called her in a knowing way "pirate"? I mean unless you're saying that was all about girl power and female empowerment I'm at a loss. Seems more like Jack understands that she now has become his equal. Her motivations weren't steeped in her love story with Will but a preservation for her own life though sure she didn't want her love to die either. That's just one example though of me even bringing up Elizabeth Swann.

And it's totally ok to have different viewpoints on the subject. Only reason I brought it up is it just felt off to me when in various threads people were explaining it away as "girl power!" or "female empowerment" rather than what seemed more appropriate way of spinning it in term of equality.

 

[Boski]

The ride doesn't sketch their activities as being in a "grey area" (drinking, looting, burning down the city).

And then Disney packages it on toys, tshirts, and movies for all the kids to see.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

And then Disney packages it on toys, tshirts, and movies for all the kids to see.

Yup... I was thinking about that... redhead girl power tshirts to follow...

 

[bryanb]

There are plenty of female villains in Disney stories. There's no rule that says that all the bad guys have to be men.

Villains are good business, too. Not as good as the Princess business, but it's still quite lucrative. And even outside of Disney plenty of films and TV shows these days are stories of "bad guys" as protagonists.

But as with all villains, the pirates in the ride the pirates are evil but they get their comeuppance. The whole first scene is the story of how treachery and greed (for "that cursed treasure") led to the pirates' destruction. (Properly warned be ye, says I.)

The rest of it is told as a flashback... from their invasion on the Spanish fort, to the looting and pillaging and auctioning off the wenches, to the drunken revelry that sets the village on fire, to them eventually turning against each other in a gunfight. The original storyline was that that all the pirates die at the end.

(The Jack Sparrow storyline complicates it a little bit, but the overall structure is there.)

 

[HeatherI]

Isn't interesting what Disney deems to be politically correct?
Besides auctioning off redheads is fine. I start at $1 mil.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Disney villains ARE big business and are fantastic -- male and female alike!!

I just wouldn't say "Girl Power!" when presented with Cruella or Maleficent any more than I would with a female pirate.

Has to be a good character for that to seem like it fits to me.

 

[Robo]

-auctioning off redheads is fine. I start at $1 mil.

Ah, yes.
That brings to mind an old story, paraphrased below.

Gal- You say want my attentions for the night?
Guy- Yes.
Gal- No way!
Guy- I'll pay you a million dollars.
Gal- For THAT, I'm yours!
Guy- Here's a check. Let's see, I'll make that out for $100.00.
Gal- HEY, you said a million dollars! What kind of girl do you think I AM??
Guy- Oh, we've established that. NOW, we're just working on the PRICE!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Ah, yes.
That brings to mind an old story, paraphrased below.

Gal- You say want my attentions for the night?
Guy- Yes.
Gal- No way!
Guy- I'll pay you a million dollars.
Gal- For THAT, I'm yours!
Guy- Here's a check. Let's see, I'll make that out for $100.00.
Gal- HEY, you said a million dollars! What kind of girl do you think I AM??
Guy- Oh, we've established that. NOW, we're just working on the PRICE!