We want to redhead!

[goofy4tink]

Sooooo, the whole redhead scene is a family favorite. Why? Dd is a redhead, and when she first noticed that scene, at the age of 7, she was horrified. Thought they were talking about her!! She laughs about it to this day, at the age of 23! So, she was a bit miffed when she saw it was changing. But, she decided a redheaded lady pirate was something she could get behind! With all the talk of glorifying piracy, has anyone stopped to think of how this ride ends??? Jack Sparrow sitting on his throne-like chair, singing about the wonderful life of a pirate, surrounded by all his ill-gotten goods! Talk about a bad message. Perhaps we should change that scene to one of the gallows....show what happens to bad guys.

 

[AlVan]

It doesn't bother me, but neither does the proposed change. I always find it funny that the people who are offended by the offended seem to make a bigger deal than the "PC police" ever did in the first place.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I always find it funny that the people who are offended by the offended seem to make a bigger deal than the "PC police" ever did in the first place.

Disagree! Thinking that stuff has all gone off the deep end is not equivalent to being "offended" by it going off the deep end -- not even sure how that would work.

And again -- we don't actually know why they're changing this scene after 50yrs.

 

[thevolcanogod]

The entire ride is a cautionary tale. In reverse. The consequences of a "Pirate's Life". The skeleton among the crabs, killed by his captain to keep the secret location of the treasure. The skeleton among the wrecked ship timbers. The pirates locked in jail while the city burns around them.

It's not supposed to be a glorification. The stuff they thoughtlessly added with Jack Sparrow distorted that. Do you honestly think a man like Walt, who hated anyone to see him smoke because it promoted bad habits, put a drunk in his ride for people to emulate?

 

[NuJoy]

()

 

[lchuck]

Yes! The premise of the pirate life is that it will be an incredibly short one so obtain all the pleasure possible. Little thought to consequence for poor actions enters the equation knowing things will turn out badly either way. Might as well live it up!

So there you go! They should just change the wording on the banner from Pirate Brides to Future Pirate Widows and maybe offer up a Pirate Pension to the widows and all will be well.

 

[NuJoy]

()

 

[hiroMYhero]

This article from the Orange County (CA) Register explains how the Imagineers' original "story" and ongoing changes that have occurred for POTC now lead to this new change:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.ocre...ene-in-pirates-at-disneyland-makes-sense/amp/


"They weren’t a bunch of misogynists, gleefully portraying female suffering for laughs. No, they created an ironic morality play, with a dark ending that matched the dark deeds committed by these pirates. Remember, in the original version of the ride, the pirates all die. Whether they rot in prison or get blown sky-high after drunkenly shooting up an arsenal, Disneyland’s pirates originally all paid the ultimate price for their crimes by the end of the ride; until a little over 10 years ago, when Disneyland added animatronics figures of Johnny Depp’s Captain Jack Sparrow to the ride."

 

[thevolcanogod]

The problem is, if you change a morality play to "it's great to be a pirate", is it good to do it piecemeal? You still have depicted torture, murder, attempted murder, theft, drunkenness, arson etc etc etc. Before you had the defense that it was indeed a morality play. Now what do you have to stand on?

And at what point in this whole process is the ride irrevocably damaged to the point that it's best to just start over?

I think the original ride took a lot of inspiration from RLS Treasure Island - you tend to associate with Jim Hawkins - who's drawn up in the action but possesses a strong sense of morals. He's not "with" the pirates.

Even the first POTC movie, the Pirates were bad people. Jack sort-of played the Long John Silver role - bad but also with some good.

Then it all went downhill...

 

[NuJoy]

()

 

[marikujawa]

I've heard of 3 such petitions so far. 85-87% pretty steadily "not offended" in this poll. Fair to say that probably most people would opt to keep it? Interesting.

This site scews older and older people tend to be more conservative, as in resistant to change. Poll results here reflect that. Disney decides to change things from time to time and I imagine the vast majority of visitors don't care one way or the other. I see excellent points being made on both sides.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

This site scews older and older people tend to be more conservative, as in resistant to change. Poll results here reflect that. Disney decides to change things from time to time and I imagine the vast majority of visitors don't care one way or the other. I see excellent points being made on both sides.

I said that myself about DIS skewing older. Enough to bring 87% down to under 50%? Dunno, but doubt it.

 

[marikujawa]

I said that myself about DIS skewing older. Enough to bring 87% down to under 50%? Dunno, but doubt it.

It doesn't matter. There are interesting, thoughtful arguments being made by both sides. The poll is meaningless for all sorts of reasons and doesn't make your position any stronger.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The poll is meaningless for all sorts of reasons and doesn't make your position any stronger.

Goodness. I understand how much validity an online poll on an unofficial site with small sample size has (or doesn't have). Thanks. Perhaps you didn't read all my posts -- not drawing definitive conclusions. Pretty sure my various stats profs over the years would take issue with that.

 

[marikujawa]

Goodness. I understand how much validity an online poll on an unofficial site with small sample size has (or doesn't have). Thanks. Perhaps you didn't read all my posts -- not drawing definitive conclusions. Pretty sure my various stats profs over the years would take issue with that.

I'm not sure I understand that. Are you saying you had a statistics professor who would have attached some significance to this poll? The poll asks only whether a person is "really bothered" by the scene. I'm not really bothered by it because it reflects what was considered entertaining at the time and was not done with malicious intent. When I entered the workforce many years ago, jokes based on a person's ethnicity, race or gender were commonplace and considered funny. I wasn't particularly bothered by them because that's just the way things were and they weren't done maliciously. But I sure as heck didn't miss them when they were gone, and I'm kind of glad my daughter never had to put up with them.

So my answer to the poll would have been "no," I'm not really bothered by the scene. But I wholeheartedly, 100% support Disney's decision to change the scene because sensibilities change, and what was once considered entertaining is not so amusing anymore. I don't condone sanitizing history, but the ride is not intended to be a history lesson. Honestly, I agree that people these days can be much too sensitive, and some seem to go out of their way to be offended by the smallest thing. But maybe Disney no longer sees the value in a scene showing that the pretty redhead is worth so much more than the "fat" lady.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm not sure I understand that. The poll asks only whether a person is "really bothered" by the scene. I'm not really bothered by it because it reflects what was considered entertaining at the time and was not done with malicious intent. When I entered the workforce many years ago, jokes based on a person's ethnicity, race or gender were commonplace and considered funny. I wasn't particularly bothered by them because that's just the way things were and they weren't done maliciously. But I sure as heck didn't miss them when they were gone, and I'm kind of glad my daughter never had to put up with them.

So my answer to the poll would have been "no," I'm not really bothered by the scene. But I wholeheartedly, 100% support Disney's decision to change the scene because sensibilities change, and what was once considered entertaining is not so amusing anymore. I don't condone sanitizing history, but the ride is not intended to be a history lesson. Honestly, I agree that people these days can be much too sensitive, and some seem to go out of their way to be offended by the smallest thing. But Maybe Disney no longer sees the value in a scene showing that the pretty redhead is worth so much more than the "fat" lady.

Got it. Others have made the point about the phrasing of the question. However, I think that as phrased, it gets to the question of whether there might have been an outcry to change the scene -- presumably only those BOTHERED by it would take the time to complain.

I've made some similar points to yours in this thread that changes being made due to market demand are exactly what Disney should do as a business. Even if I think it's unnecessary. Not about me.

I just have seen no evidence that there was demand or public outcry to change this. Have you? I've seen petitions to keep it as is and this one -- albeit certainly non-scientific poll -- suggesting that demand MIGHT not be there.

Have also said multiple times that we don't know Disney's deliberations or what really prompted the change and likely never will. Maybe they have research to suggest the desire to remove would be widespread. Maybe they are bending to a few loud voices. Maybe they want a female pirate to put on a tshirt. We don't know.

 

[marikujawa]

Got it. Others have made the point about the phrasing of the question. However, I think that as phrased, it gets to the question of whether there might have been an outcry to change the scene -- presumably only those BOTHERED by it would take the time to complain.

I've made some similar points to yours in this thread that changes being made due to market demand are exactly what Disney should do as a business. Even if I think it's unnecessary. Not about me.

I just have seen no evidence that there was demand or public outcry to change this. Have you? I've seen petitions to keep it as is and this one -- albeit certainly non-scientific poll -- suggesting that demand MIGHT not be there.

Have also said multiple times that we don't know Disney's deliberations or what really prompted the change and likely never will. Maybe they have research to suggest the desire to remove would be widespread. Maybe they are bending to a few loud voices. Maybe they want a female pirate to put on a tshirt. We don't know.

I don't doubt that the petitions oppose the change. When a change is announced, the people who support it rarely file petitions.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't doubt that the petitions oppose the change. When a change is announced, the people who support it rarely file petitions.

True. And usually when there is a public outcry to change something these days -- especially when it touches issues like this and a huge company like Disney -- we hear about it, I think. No one who's posted here has mentioned hearing about such a thing on this one.

Doesn't mean Disney hasn't gotten the odd complaint or might not have research suggesting this would be well-received.

Maybe just some exces deciding they had to "modernize" this preemptively. Who knows.

 

[marikujawa]

True. And usually when there is a public outcry to change something these days -- especially when it touches issues like this and a huge company like Disney -- we hear about it, I think. No one who's posted here has mentioned hearing about such a thing on this one.

Doesn't mean Disney hasn't gotten the odd complaint or might not have research suggesting this would be well-received.

Maybe just some exces deciding they had to "modernize" this preemptively. Who knows.

I suspect there was no public outcry. Someone at Disney just "cringed."

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I suspect there was no public outcry. Someone at Disney just "cringed."

Could very well be. Certainly their prerogative. Ultimately I don't think this change will make any difference -- won't see fewer people or more people ride it as a result.

I do think they should consider a balance of old and new and not erase too much of what has worked for 50yrs.