"We cannot tolerate this."

[joviroxx]

Has anyone realized just how young these killers are ? This one is 20, the Columbine kids 16-17, the man who killed in Virginia was 23, the Aurora shooter was 25. And they are men.

These aren't seasoned people who have lived full lives. They are young men at just a starting age. I dont know what that says, but its frightening and disturbing to me.

 

[jpcamaro70]

Has anyone realized just how young these killers are ? This one is 20, the Columbine kids 16-17, the man who killed in Virginia was 23, the Aurora shooter was 25. And they are men.

These aren't seasoned people who have lived full lives. They are young men at just a starting age. I dont know what that says, but its frightening and disturbing to me.

Yes, that is disturbing.

 

[Domo]

Not to be political, but I'd personally like to see investment in taser and associated technologies.

 

[sam_gordon]

The culture in my old neighborhood loved violence. People trying to stab, beat, or run each other over. Dad's being proud that their son or daughter is in jail. Throwing a party because their daughter beat the crap out of someone and they are in the hospital.

People don't like to speak about the above neighborhoods. It's just politically incorrect.

So that is a problem. If we can't talk about it we can't fix it.

Kinda like mental illness is taboo in some cultures. If we don't speak about the illness, it doesn't exist.

Yes, that is a problem. But has that problem led to any of the mass shootings?

And is it 'THE' problem? OK, there is a group of people that glorify violence. How do you stop that? Even if it was stopped, would that have prevented Friday's tragedy?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

*** Please read Alex's first post in this thread before posting any more comments about gun control - for or against. ***

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=46943742&postcount=1

Err, I assumed he was talking about that thread. So, yeah, never mind

 

[sunshinehighway]

The culture in my old neighborhood loved violence. People trying to stab, beat, or run each other over. Dad's being proud that their son or daughter is in jail. Throwing a party because their daughter beat the crap out of someone and they are in the hospital.

People don't like to speak about the above neighborhoods. It's just politically incorrect.

So that is a problem. If we can't talk about it we can't fix it.

Kinda like mental illness is taboo in some cultures. If we don't speak about the illness, it doesn't exist.

What does that have to do with a little rich boy gunning down kids at a school or some pyscho opening fire in a theater or mall?

People talk about violence in certain neighborhoods all the time. There's nothing politically incorrect about it.

 

[rgf207]

Has anyone realized just how young these killers are ? This one is 20, the Columbine kids 16-17, the man who killed in Virginia was 23, the Aurora shooter was 25. And they are men.

These aren't seasoned people who have lived full lives. They are young men at just a starting age. I dont know what that says, but its frightening and disturbing to me.

mental illness knows no age

 

[Domo]

mental illness knows no age

It's interesting, mental illnesses usually present themselves in early adulthood, psychotic disorders in particular. In theory, if your illness is going to make you kill, commit suicide or something else, early adulthood would be the time to go through with said acts.

 

[Robbi]

Probably for another thread but, insurance companies do not dictate what treatment you can get. They only dictate what they will pay for. You can have any treatment you and your doctor want. You just may have to pay for it.

You're right. At $1000+/day though most people cannot afford inpatient treatment without insurance. If they won't cover it, then people have to go without the help they need.

It's interesting, mental illnesses usually present themselves in early adulthood, psychotic disorders in particular. In theory, if your illness is going to make you kill, commit suicide or something else, early adulthood would be the time to go through with said acts.

18 years old is the average onset of schizophrenia in males. Other illnesses manifest usually by age 25. The ages of these young killers fall pretty much within these ranges.

 

[donalduck]

What are you a doctor? Who knows what goes on in some persons head that is evil and is just out to kill anyone.

Oh my no. I deal with "crazy" day in day out and I can assure you that there are a myriad of illnesses that might drive a man to extremes due to diminished responsibility and at the same time there are a million illnesses that will do nothing of the sort. Often the dividing line is VERY hazy and is really a case of YMMV.

 

[Domo]

What are you a doctor? Who knows what goes on in some persons head that is evil and is just out to kill anyone.

Call it experience. If you want, I can forward you to a site that is excellent on such matters

 

[NotUrsula]

Has anyone realized just how young these killers are ? This one is 20, the Columbine kids 16-17, the man who killed in Virginia was 23, the Aurora shooter was 25. And they are men.

These aren't seasoned people who have lived full lives. They are young men at just a starting age. I dont know what that says, but its frightening and disturbing to me.

What it means is that they are in the prime age group for early mental illness, schizophrenia in particular. Women develop mental illness in the same time frame for the most part, but they are unlikely to become random shooters.

 

[joviroxx]

18 years old is the average onset of schizophrenia in males. Other illnesses manifest usually by age 25. The ages of these young killers fall pretty much within these ranges.

I Don't claim to know anything about mental illness but why is it that women don't seem to commit these mass murders? It seems its young men

 

[pilesoflaundry]

Sadly, I really don't think there is anything that can reasonably be done if we want to continue to have a free and open society.

By the way, this school did have its doors locked and the killer forced his way in. Even if a police officer had been stationed there, the killer would have probably shot him before the officer could have done anything, especially given the type of weapon the killer was using.

To make certain things illegal doesn't matter to certain elements of society. Drugs such as heroin, cocaine, etc. are illegal, yet plenty of people still manage to be able to find them. As much as it pains me to say this, the same thing would happen assault-type weapons.

Controls only work on the good people.

I agree.

His mother obtained the guns legally and locked them up, he still got them. I really question her judgment in having them in the house at all with a mentally unstable child but what's done is done and in the end she paid with her life for that. Columbine, they had someone else buy the guns. And Timothy McVey used a bomb (and he killed kids in the daycare in the building) so banning guns or controlling guns isn't the issue. It's controlling the crazies and unfortunately there isn't more we can do about that either, you can't lock everyone up and you can't force people into treatment.

 

[Robbi]

I Don't claim to know anything about mental illness but why is it that women don't seem to commit these mass murders? It seems its young men

What I know was from having worked with people as a student- it was 30 years ago and thoughts have changed back and forth. Testosterone would be a difference. Women produce it but not in the same amounts. Testosterone differences influencing these young men is just my opinion.
There are studies on testosterone but I have not seen one dealing with mass murderers. This is one in general.
http://www.med.mcgill.ca/mjm/v06n01/v06p032/v06p032.pdf

Also the frontal cortex where we feel empathy has been absent or smaller than normal in some of these killers.

Hopefully, this tragedy will force intensive study so these attacks won't happen again in the future

 

[DebbieB]

There was a forensic psychiatrist on The View this morning, he urged parents to keep kids away from violent video games and violent movies. Makes sense, the "shoot em up" video games. How many girls do you hear of that are hooked on these like boys?

http://theview.abc.go.com/forum/dr-michael-welner-2

http://abc.go.com/watch/clip/the-vi...ist---part-1/moments?cid=abccomsearch_results

http://abc.go.com/watch/clip/the-vi...welner-forensic-psychiatrist---part-2/moments

 

[NotUrsula]

As to why a deranged person wouldn't start to shoot at a police precinct rather than a school if his goal was "suicide by cop"? I don't know about your police precincts, but around here there are never any armed police officers inside. The only people normally present during business hours are support staff, and when detectives are working on the premises they have to put their weapons in a locked locker inside the door. We don't have lockups at the local precincts; if a prisoner is brought in they are taken to HQ. The only way that a civilian can get inside that building is through the front lobby entrance during office hours, the police entrance is hardened.

The most effective way to commit suicide by cop is to simply pull a weapon on a LEO and refuse to drop it; police see an awful lot of that with people who are clinically depressed. However, the average truly psychotic person isn't going to be just wanting to die. What they want to do is go out in what they see as blaze of glory -- to "show" the world how tough & scary they are -- not to simply and anonymously fall dead on a streetcorner. That this kind of violence is nearly unique to men isn't an accident; society values physical prowess in men, and most of the time the young men who do this have historically not been physically imposing people -- they see the guns and the body armor as making them look physically imposing and strong. They don't think that the body armor will keep them alive, they use it to look tough and to buy enough time to do some memorable damage.

BTW, a team of psychologists wrote a book about the phenomenon of mass shootings at schools, it is called Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings.. (http://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Roots-School-Shootings/dp/0465051049/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355781938&sr=1-3) They did extensive research on the history of incidents like these, and what they found was that these incidents almost always happen in small towns, because in small towns, and particularly in bedroom communities, schools are the social center of the community.

 

[mhsjax]

There was a forensic psychiatrist on The View this morning, he urged parents to keep kids away from violent video games and violent movies. Makes sense, the "shoot em up" video games. How many girls do you hear of that are hooked on these like boys?

http://theview.abc.go.com/forum/dr-michael-welner-2

http://abc.go.com/watch/clip/the-vi...ist---part-1/moments?cid=abccomsearch_results

http://abc.go.com/watch/clip/the-vi...welner-forensic-psychiatrist---part-2/moments

I am sorry, but I don't buy into this. Cartoons are very violent, did you not watch Bugs Bunny? Boys have always played cops and robbers. This is a feel good tree hugger cop out. A person that is "normal" won't go in and kill children and a person who isn't "normal" doesn't need violent tv or games to help him along.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

What does that have to do with a little rich boy gunning down kids at a school or some pyscho opening fire in a theater or mall?

People talk about violence in certain neighborhoods all the time. There's nothing politically incorrect about it.

You do realize that mass murders have no certain economic status, no certain ethnicity and are not only males? Mass murders have happened for years and that they peaked in 1929. The 2000s actually has less mass murders than the 1980s and 1990s.

I disagree with you about not talking about violence in neighborhoods. I have seen people try to bring the problem up, and try to come up with solutions only to be shot down and called a racist.


I also believe that violence in neighborhoods is one of the problems. Violence never stays in the neighborhoods, it will eventually move to a bigger area. Mental illness is another problem along with values and morals. We need to figure out what to do with these issues, not with the object.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I Don't claim to know anything about mental illness but why is it that women don't seem to commit these mass murders? It seems its young men

I read about a women who did commit a mass murder. So it's not only men.