WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[RoseGold]

Right now, random Monday at 5:30, ROTR is down. Millenium Falcon is at 115 minutes and Slinky Dog at 90. And that's a Touring Plans 5/10 crowd level.

 

[Genie+]

There’s also a difference between what is legal and good business practice.

People spend thousands on tickets, thousands on a room, and bring thousands more for food and extras, even just a party of 3 or 4 people. They show up with their $700 each 5-day hoppers after reserving their parks last month. 5-day tickets technically give 8 days to use them. What happens in this not untypical scenario:

Fly in Sunday (fly out next Sunday) and have 5 parks reserved for Mon-Fri. Staying at CBR for 7 nights. On Wed one of the kids lightly twisted their ankle, weather report says basically monsoon all day Thursday. You’d LOVE to cancel Thursday and visit a park Saturday instead. Nope! There’s no availability, even though date priced tickets covers the dates in question and the whole trip is onsite booked thru Disney.

I’d be surprised not to see changes in the near future.

 

[wnielsen1]

Which doesn't make me feel any better. Parks being routinely unavailable does not lead to the feeling that WDW remains the most magical place on earth.

You're not wrong. But if they had availability the morning of every day, they wouldn't need a reservation system at all. And I am not saying they need such a system, but to me it appears that they are managing to a different (lower) occupancy number than the fire marshal max capacity. I'm not sure how they fix this staffing issue given that Universal is opening a third gate in a few years (among other things like Poly2). I just expect my dues to go up to cover higher labor costs.

 

[tjkraz]

Right now, random Monday at 5:30, ROTR is down. Millenium Falcon is at 115 minutes and Slinky Dog at 90. And that's a Touring Plans 5/10 crowd level.

I guess the question is whether Touring Plans' 5/10 prediction is accurate. Right now, every attraction seems to be trending above their predicted wait time. Rise being down doesn't help, but it must have come back up shortly after you looked. Listed as 105 minute wait as of 5:32.

EDIT: I also wonder about the impact of park hopping since we're well after 2pm. Disney doesn't seem to limit the flow of hoppers in any meaningful fashion. It's entirely possible that long wait times at 5:30pm are being fueled by hopping.

 

[BeachClub2014]

You're not wrong. But if they had availability the morning of every day, they wouldn't need a reservation system at all. And I am not saying they need such a system, but to me it appears that they are managing to a different (lower) occupancy number than the fire marshal max capacity. I'm not sure how they fix this staffing issue given that Universal is opening a third gate in a few years (among other things like Poly2). I just expect my dues to go up to cover higher labor costs.

Maybe they need to hire the Universal brain trust as they've seemingly figured it out if they're opening a third gate. Right?

I get that Disney is managing to a different (lower) occupancy number than they historically have, which is my beef. There wasn't a reservation system for nearly 50 years and now suddenly it is a business imperative?

 

[Sandisw]

You're not wrong. But if they had availability the morning of every day, they wouldn't need a reservation system at all. And I am not saying they need such a system, but to me it appears that they are managing to a different (lower) occupancy number than the fire marshal max capacity. I'm not sure how they fix this staffing issue given that Universal is opening a third gate in a few years (among other things like Poly2). I just expect my dues to go up to cover higher labor costs.

And that brings us back to why they may be considering giving AP holders the chance to reserve later in the day when they know they won’t be going in the morning.

It could indeed help to keep reservations longer at the two busy parks. But, prior to covid, I read so many reports about how crazy crowded it was and I too have been at a park with wall to wall people. It’s not fun.

 

[tjkraz]

Fly in Sunday (fly out next Sunday) and have 5 parks reserved for Mon-Fri. Staying at CBR for 7 nights. On Wed one of the kids lightly twisted their ankle, weather report says basically monsoon all day Thursday. You’d LOVE to cancel Thursday and visit a park Saturday instead. Nope! There’s no availability, even though date priced tickets covers the dates in question and the whole trip is onsite booked thru Disney.

Having 0 of the 4 parks available is exceedingly rare. Others may know for certain, but I'm not sure it's happened since the Covid social distancing requirements were lifted.

I personally know some people who did not have reservations around spring break '22 and didn't find out until very late in the game. Like, after their plane landed in MCO. They still had at least 1 option each day, even if it wasn't their preferred park.

I completely understand the down side of Park Pass and sympathize with anyone impacted. But--perhaps this is the optimist in me--on some levels I applaud Disney not just tossing the gates open and allowing a near unlimited flow of guests on every single day. If I *DO* have a park pass for MK on July 19, I know that there aren't going to be 80,000 people in the park. Disney capped attendance at some level which corresponds to staffing. That seems preferable to the maximum fire Marshall limits another poster referenced.

 

[DL1WDW2]

I guess a Yearly Annual Pass will just have a different definition.
and price increase.

 

[tjkraz]

Maybe they need to hire the Universal brain trust as they've seemingly figured it out if they're opening a third gate. Right?

Or Universal simply doesn't draw the same crowds as Disney. In 2019 (pre-covid), all 4 WDW parks out-drew both US and IOA. No idea if that's still holding true today.

But when we see RNR and TOT at 60+ minutes, Runaway Railway at 65, Slinky at 95 and Rise at 140, I'm hard pressed to think that Disney should do away with Park Pass and admit even more people into the park.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I completely understand the down side of Park Pass and sympathize with anyone impacted. But--perhaps this is the optimist in me--on some levels I applaud Disney not just tossing the gates open and allowing a near unlimited flow of guests on every single day. If I *DO* have a park pass for MK on July 19, I know that there aren't going to be 80,000 people in the park. Disney capped attendance at some level which corresponds to staffing. That seems preferable to the maximum fire Marshall limits another poster referenced.

Of course, they could just staff up and run the parks like they've done for decades, right?

I really wonder how far away we are from WDW adding an upcharge option on tickets to guarantee entrance on days when reservations aren't available? I fear it is coming.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess a Yearly Annual Pass will just have a different definition.
and price increase.

I think that is coming and we may indeed see something that no longer gives someone access 300+ days.

 

[BeachClub2014]

But when we see RNR and TOT at 60+ minutes, Runaway Railway at 65, Slinky at 95 and Rise at 140, I'm hard pressed to think that Disney should do away with Park Pass and admit even more people into the park.

Well, wait times are an entirely different debate and not wholly dependent on the number of guests that walk thru a gate.

 

[tjkraz]

Of course, they could just staff up and run the parks like they've done for decades, right?

Well, a couple thoughts.

First, we don't know how much staffing has changed in comparison to prior years, nor the areas where it's changed. To my eyes, most attractions seem to be running at their maximum capacity. As soon as one coaster train pulls out of the station, another arrives. As soon as one group departs their Dumbo elephants, another takes their place. Omnimovers keep...moving. Perhaps they are able to make some tweaks around things like Star Tours (fewer gates) or Jungle Cruise (fewer boats). But those are the exceptions.

If Disney is able to tweak any staffing based upon crowds, I suspect it happens more on under-utilized days when they can cut food service, retail and support workers.

Without park pass, we would simply see even larger crowds at MK and DHS. With longer wait times. THAT is what Disney did in the past--they threw the gates open with little regard for how long everyone had to wait.

What Park Pass does is it nudges people to the underutilized parks.

Without Park Pass, today's waits for RNR, Rise, Splash, Space and a dozen others would be even longer. No question. More people in the park = longer waits.

 

[Genie+]

I completely understand the down side of Park Pass and sympathize with anyone impacted. But--perhaps this is the optimist in me--on some levels I applaud Disney not just tossing the gates open and allowing a near unlimited flow of guests on every single day.

This is a good point and I don’t doubt it’s part of their intention. But they’re also looking to manipulate and shift guests from high attendance parks to lower. In the example WDW already had all the info about these guests, along with aggregate data to increase its usefulness. The product suffers for what gain. Precision comes at the cost of flexibility.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Well, a couple thoughts.

First, we don't know how much staffing has changed in comparison to prior years, nor the areas where it's changed. To my eyes, most attractions seem to be running at their maximum capacity. As soon as one coaster train pulls out of the station, another arrives. As soon as one group departs their Dumbo elephants, another takes their place. Omnimovers keep...moving. Perhaps they are able to make some tweaks around things like Star Tours (fewer gates) or Jungle Cruise (fewer boats). But those are the exceptions.

If Disney is able to tweak any staffing based upon crowds, I suspect it happens more on under-utilized days when they can cut food service, retail and support workers.

Without park pass, we would simply see even larger crowds at MK and DHS. With longer wait times. THAT is what Disney did in the past--they threw the gates open with little regard for how long everyone had to wait.

What Park Pass does is it nudges people to the underutilized parks.

Without Park Pass, today's waits for RNR, Rise, Splash, Space and a dozen others would be even longer. No question. More people in the park = longer waits.

We can agree to disagree on whether the reservation system is a good thing for guests, or not. I understand your points and perspective. I guess I'm just an old guy who misses the spontaneity and freedom of the 'good ol' days'.

Our family, on some days, used to head down to our resort bus stop and just hop on the next theme park bus and that's where we would spend the morning. It was fun, exciting, and spontaneous. No more. Then, we would hop to another park, usually for lunch, again spontaneously. Again, no more, and pity's the loss.

 

[whiteness]

This is a good point and I don’t doubt it’s part of their intention. But they’re also looking to manipulate and shift guests from high attendance parks to lower. In the example WDW already had all the info about these guests, along with aggregate data to increase its usefulness. The product suffers for what gain. Precision comes at the cost of flexibility.

If that's what Disney wants, then they should just sell passes that flat out say you'll get half as many MK and HS days as AK and EPCOT days. If someone is OK with that, they get a cheaper pass. If not, you pay more, and your access to MK and AK is not throttled.

 

[tjkraz]

This is a good point and I don’t doubt it’s part of their intention. But they’re also looking to manipulate and shift guests from high attendance parks to lower. In the example WDW already had all the info about these guests, along with aggregate data to increase its usefulness. The product suffers for what gain. Precision comes at the cost of flexibility.

I'm not disagreeing with the loss in flexibility. But really, between FP+ and dining reservations, how much flexibility did we really have?

Unlimited flexibility still exists after 2pm. (Stay tuned.)

 

[Smugpugmug]

Well, wait times are an entirely different debate and not wholly dependent on the number of guests that walk thru a gate.

I think a lot of it has to do with the park's actual capacity. For example, Universal Studios Florida (not counting Islands, just the Studios park) has higher attendance numbers than Epcot and HS and does not have nearly as high wait times as HS. The highest wait times are Gringotts, Minions and Rip Ride Rocket. I would argue that this park suffers the same issue as HS in that it needs more rides (and also has VERY narrow walkways) and yet it's wait times are not nearly as bad.

 

[tjkraz]

I think a lot of it has to do with the park's actual capacity. For example, Universal Studios Florida (not counting Islands, just the Studios park) has higher attendance numbers than Epcot and HS and does not have nearly as high wait times as HS. The highest wait times are Gringotts, Minions and Rip Ride Rocket. I would argue that this park suffers the same issue as HS in that it needs more rides (and also has VERY narrow walkways) and yet it's wait times are not nearly as bad.

 

[whiteness]

I think a lot of it has to do with the park's actual capacity. For example, Universal Studios Florida (not counting Islands, just the Studios park) has higher attendance numbers than Epcot and HS and does not have nearly as high wait times as HS. The highest wait times are Gringotts, Minions and Rip Ride Rocket. I would argue that this park suffers the same issue as HS in that it needs more rides (and also has VERY narrow walkways) and yet it's wait times are not nearly as bad.

Genie+/Lighting Lane is a big part of the problem.