WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[Sandisw]

Two good points. But, the blog said "small amount" compared to afternoon entries. Bottom line is the all-day entries need to be available to passholders as long as they are available to the ticketed/resort bucket. I think that requirement would probably defeat Disney's interest in using this as a new management tool. They really, really really want to have park reservations and buckets and manipulate those buckets.

Maybe. But, I think it is more likely these would be very short term afternoon entry postings -- if they are doing it when all-day passes are not available or if when they have surplus space. The sample we saw was for Magic Kingdom, July 20, 5:00 p.m.. Disney gets to choose the park and the time of day in making the afternoon entry available.

I have already posted about the difficulty of the measly reservation hold numbers of 2 to 6 park reservations (including the Magic Key numbers here.) The dead space is the problem. The inability to plan far out because that model is based on "trips" instead of short term impulse to attend. Locals are very different. So, we cannot plan very far out like ticketed guests and resort guests. So, everything is picked over. Even if you have an Incredi-pass, as a local or off-site guest you can forget Christmas using your annual pass alone.

What Disney would likely offer APs is the surplus -- Epcot, Animal Kingdom over and over and over. Also, with the "small amount" of all-day reservations gone in a heart-beat, we would be at Disney's mercy as to whether they offered ANY afternoon entries on that day -- or the next day -- or next week (when local APs usually "plan" to attend.) "Honey, I don't know if we can go to Magic Kingdom next week because Disney has not posted any afternoon entries in a while now." They are not posted every day for every park.

This is not a "neat fix" to the huge problem of so few park reservation holds available to local APs. It suits Disney fine. But, like in a labor negotiation, once we head down that path and it is an unsatisfactory solution, and we know it is an unsatisfactory solution for the local passholder, it takes moving a mountain to get them to do anything other than slightly tweak this solution. Thank about "when" the local passholder makes their reservations. It dooms us or severely defeats having an annual pass at all.

Except right now, as long as you can get a reservation somewhere on property, you tap and go to what you want in the afternoon because no one has been blocked from hopping assuming they got something..

Again, the article may say small but what does that mean? Small in compared to what. If Disney knows that pass holders, even locals aren’t tapping in in large numbers compared to afternoon or evening, then it could very well leave the AP bucket open until the ticket day bucket fills and both close down at similar or same time.

Until this becomes a reality, I think assuming anything..one way or the other.. can be dangerous.

Yes, Disney controls it. Yes, Disney can and I am sure does manipulate it to favor the guests that are onsite and multi day ticket holders.

And if I was a cash onsite guest, I would want them to do that over locals getting in.

But, giving these as other choices could..I say could..end up giving Disney what they want…and at the same time, leave all day park days open longer for last minute visits.

In reality, it doesn’t matter how many spots Disney does or does not put in the bucket as long as the terms of the current passes have the ability to book an all day reservation for as long as a ticket holder can. With some pass holders booking afternoon and evenings, Disney can…and I am sure will..leave the ticket holder bucket open

Now I get that local pass holders need something different than DVC owners or onsite guests do for an AP. And I know that this system may be good for some and not for others.

But, the ultimate choice by Disney could be to simple not sell APs…and I just don’t see that. APs have a purpose.

 

[TeamRiley]

You have to remember that the alternative is to just raise prices even higher. Pick your poison.

Higher prices and fewer guests doesn't hurt the Disney bottom line at all. It makes it better in fact.

 

[whiteness]

You have to remember that the alternative is to just raise prices even higher. Pick your poison.

Higher prices and fewer guests doesn't hurt the Disney bottom line at all. It makes it better in fact.

https://wdwnt.com/2022/07/tokyo-dis...lower-capacity-as-experience-value-increases/

I'm fine with that, as long as they are honest and upfront about it. A better experience at a higher price sounds fair and reasonable.

 

[TeamRiley]

Yeah, me as well. I'd pay double if the crowds were half as large.

 

[Sandisw]

If I were sitting at the negotiation table on behalf of passholders, I would insist that at least 80% of the projected need for passholders remain all-day entries -- subject to revision as further data and feedback come in. Then 20% could be afternoon entry to start. Afternoon entry would be constantly offered at both 12:00 and 5:00 p.m. and available for all parks at all times. None of the afternoon entries would ever count against park reservation holds. Block-out dates would still apply. Disney would not allow the passholder park reservation bucket in any type of entry to be empty when ticketed guests and resort guests still had availability. Then, we meet again in a year and see how it is going.

And see I don’t think it has to be that caught and dry or that this is some sort of negotiation.

I accept they get to decide how it works and my only demand for them is to be clear with the terms.

If they want to define a non block out day as limited entry based on spots in an AP bucket, that’s fine. They just need to define it that way.

But I atreee that they can’t They can’t not define what a non block out day means.

And they can’t have terms that can be interpreted differently by pass holders vs Disney.

If Disney wants to say “ We reserve the right to cap AP reservations For full day access before we do for ticket holders on non block out days, they can do that.

But. As I have mentioned, if that is what they want, they need to update current terms and conditions to reflect that and refund any AP holder full amount who doesn’t want to accept those new terms.

And maybe this is why we see it differently. Because I only want clear and consistent rules, regardless of what they are.

However, I still believe that Disney has a place for AP holders at WDW or they would have ended the program.

 

[whiteness]

Yeah, me as well. I'd pay double if the crowds were half as large.

Ironically, Genie+ and Lightning Lane are essentially sneaky ways that Disney is trying to get Passholders to pay double to bypass crowds.

In so doing, they create even more different classes of more and less privileged guests, based on their ability and willingness to pay. Which is kind of anathema to Walt Disney's original intent based on what I've read about the man and his goals, but great for present day shareholders.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[whiteness]

Well, good news for the DVC annual passholders or other passholders who stay on-site or in Disney partner hotels (Swan etc). In other words, if you get to draw from Ticketed and Resort buckets, it doesn't affect you. If you draw from the other annual passholder bucket ... well, this will be the ones impacted.

The rumored afternoon entry that is about to be "offered" to passholders will be limited to off-site passholders; locals who drive in from and return to their own homes, passholders who stay in non-disney partner hotels, Air B&Bs, their own vacation homes or visit a nearby family member. Here's what the blogger who had the current details said, "These changes are not expected to affect Resort Guests initially."

https://blogmickey.com/2022/07/rumo...rvations-no-impact-expected-for-park-hopping/

The article says that the half-day entry doesn't count against your pass allocation. I wonder if normal "black out day" restrictions still apply?

If they would allow someone with a lower-level pass to visit the parks during the holiday season (albeit, just for the evening), that would be truly awesome. Well, I can dream, right?

 

[Sandisw]

The article says that the half-day entry doesn't count against your pass allocation. I wonder if normal "black out day" restrictions still apply?

If they would allow someone with a lower-level pass to visit the parks during the holiday season (albeit, just for the evening), that would be truly awesome. Well, I can dream, right?

I would assume that means that the current limit of 5..I believe that what it is… is not impacted for those.

So, it if happens, it will actually increase the number of park reservations a AP can hold at once.

So, for those who do not visit in the morning or not very often in the mornings, this could actually be a step toward what it was before park reservations even existed. More days to know you know you can plan for in advance

 

[whiteness]

I would assume that means that the current limit of 5..I believe that what it is… is not impacted for those.

So, it if happens, it will actually increase the number of park reservations a AP can hold at once.

So, for those who do not visit in the morning or not very often in the mornings, this could actually be a step toward what it was before park reservations even existed. More days to know you know you can plan for in advance

Well, that is assuming that the half days are not "day of" reservations the same way that Genie+ and Lighting Lane works. I don't think the article mentions anything about reserving them in advance, does it?

Again, wouldn't it be fantastic if Disney did offer "day of" half day reservations for Black Out Days? And, it wouldn't be a terrible idea, either.

If a park has excess capacity, why not get another body in there, hopefully shopping for overpriced trinkets and treats? Not to mention filling up the standby queues, to help incentivize more Genie+ and Lighting Lane purchases.

 

[Sandisw]

Well, that is assuming that the half days are not "day of" reservations the same way that Genie+ and Lighting Lane works. I don't think the article mentions anything about reserving them in advance, does it?

Again, wouldn't it be fantastic if Disney did offer "day of" half day reservations for Black Out Days? And, it wouldn't be a terrible idea, either.

If a park has excess capacity, why not get another body in there, hopefully shopping for overpriced trinkets and treats? Not to mention filling up the standby queues, to help incentivize more Genie+ and Lighting Lane purchases.

It doesn’t say that so no one knows for sure but saying it won’t count against the current limit, I assume it to mean that there could be advanced planning allowed. Day of doesn’t make a lot of sense to me if they will go to all this trouble ti update the system.

And, I don’t every think they will make things different for block out days. Those will remain truly blocked out.

At least IMO, there could be a way that a win for Disney has the ability to be an enhancement for AP holders too. Time will tell.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Sandisw]

At the bottom of the article it said afternoon entry would not apply to resort guests. In other words, it will not apply to DVC owners who use annual passes.

It won’t apply to DVC owners who are staying on site using their membership.

But I currently get a choice when making a park reservation. So even when I am staying on site, I can pull from the AP bucket if I choose that option.

And there have been times in the early days when the resort bucket was indeed full and people got Disney IT to override something and let them pull from the AP bucket.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[Warriorfish5392]

Hopefully this will help with park availability, but in my opinion they need to do away with the reservation system.

 

[Jonfw2]

It has been radio silence for a few days now on the subject of afternoon entries as far as other blogs or information coming out. That could be good if they are considering the impact.

Another impact would be that senior local passholders are more likely to go in the mornings and leave in the early afternoons after lunch to avoid the heat. If they are limited to entering at noon to 5:00 p.m. their departure puts them smack dab in the middle of rush hour or worse -- an elderly person trying to drive at night. Difficult. There are a whole lot of retirees around here that enjoy the parks in the mornings.

Also, somebody was asking what "small" meant -- in comparison to what. I went back to the Blog Mickey article and picked up the language. The intent is apparently to keep a small number of morning entries available for the (bucket # 2) off-site passholders reservations and have far more of the afternoon and evening entries available. So, that appears to indicate Disney is intending to take away all-day opportunities from the #2 bucket and give those all-day entries to the #1 bucket (ticketed guests and on-site resort guests -- the more profitable guests.) This is not just an additional opportunity. This includes a serious "take-away" from park reservations that are already very hard to get for bucket #2 guests.%

By the way, I counted at they now have not only the Disney owned hotels and DVCs in that on-site #1 bucket -- they also have 16 additional hotels in the #1 bucket. These are ginormous, mondo-big hotels!!! (I suspect the additional good neighbor/partner hotels pay Disney a fee for this privilege). But, where does that leave the local Disney fan who stays in another hotel, an Air B&B or owns their own vacation home. It also just kills the local Floridian who might have to drive an hour or so, but leaves the parks to go home at night -- a 1 day visit each time (not a trip).

Here's the quote:
"One way that Disney could use the new system is to devote a small ratio of “all-day” entry windows for Annual Passholders per day and a larger ratio of 12pm or 5pm (or any other time of their choosing) to spread out demand at their theme parks."

To be fair, 100% of your doom and gloom conjecture is coming from ONE blog post that's completely full of "might"s, "could"s, and "if"s.

 

[whiteness]

To be fair, 100% of your doom and gloom conjecture is coming from ONE blog post that's completely full of "might"s, "could"s, and "if"s.

But there has been rumblings about a change of this nature for a couple of weeks, at least.

 

[Jonfw2]

But there has been rumblings about a change of this nature for a couple of weeks, at least.

Yes. All stemming from that one blog post.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

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[whiteness]

Yes. All stemming from that one blog post.

No, predating it.