Way to go Amy . . . TSA Admits They Were Wrong

[Unas]

After "grabbing" and touching her inappropriately, the screener initially asserted what was done was correct and every other screening she ever received was done improperly. Then, after the Olympic medalist took to social media TSA admitted their staffers were wrong.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ed-by-tsa-agent-at-denver-internation-airport

Thank you Amy! Hope the retraining they mandated isn't limited to Denver and encompasses all pax, not just those with disabilities.

 

[Rhie]

Reason #400 why we need to get rid of the TSA.

 

[minnie mum]

Am I missing something? What has this to do with Disney Vacation transportation questions?

 

[sam_gordon]

Reason #400 why we need to get rid of the TSA.

Oh good, let's start another TSA bashing thread. Of course, you need to ignore this part of the article...

Van Dyken-Rouen said as much as she and husband Tom travel all over the country, she’s never been screened like this or treated like this.

Because there can't be any TSA officers who are professional and polite in their duties.
I guess we should get rid of all police too, because some of them take bribes or attack innocents.

Am I missing something? What has this to do with Disney Vacation transportation questions?

The transportation board is not Disney specific, but about transportation in general.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Thank you Amy! Hope the retraining they mandated isn't limited to Denver and encompasses all pax, not just those with disabilities.

Only some TSA Officers at one location on one day need retraining. Why should all be retrained, and where do you think the money will come from from?

Reason #400 why we need to get rid of the TSA.

Link to the first 399, please? Again, one incident at one airport one day involving one or maybe a few officers doesn't support elimination. If that were supportable, as Sam implied, we'd need to get rid of all law enforcement based on the actions of a few; or all fire departments because one is a secret arsonist; or all doctors because medical error is now the third leading cause of death in the US.

Yes, assuming this happened as reported, the officer went outside the guidelines or regulations. I've never had one touch my butt. Around/under breasts, sure. It's a potential hiding place. It's not sexual. Every pat-down I've experienced, each move was described before the officer proceeded.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

Oh good, let's start another TSA bashing thread. Of course, you need to ignore this part of the article...
Because there can't be any TSA officers who are professional and polite in their duties.
I guess we should get rid of all police too, because some of them take bribes or attack innocents.

The transportation board is not Disney specific, but about transportation in general.

Sadly, there are far more jerks in the TSA then there should be. Screaming at passengers is not really "professional and polite"

No, we should not get rid of police officers. They are trained and mostly know how to do their jobs. We can't say the same thing for the Thousands Standing Around.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/tsa-failed-undercover-airport-screening-tests/

 

[kamik86]

My main issue with the TSA is that they aren't effective. Study after study has shown this. This isn't against the employees as any job is goign to have a few bad apples.

Now I understand their issue. They have to very quickly screen LARGE amounts of people. I know at work we sometimes compare this to going on the miltary bases were we work, because the security there is not nearly as evasive when your actually on base. However that bold is what a lot of people forget. The base has the ability to screen people before they get there, require forms and check with other agencies. It would be as if everyone that was going to fly would have to have TSA precheck type forms filled out before hand. That allows them to do a lot less screening when we get there. They then can based on what they find decide if I"m not allowed on at all. If I am allowed but have to be escorted by someone with higher privileges at all times, or if I'm allowed to be on my own. They can also determine what locations I can go in.

Now maybe this is the type of solution we need for flying but the problem with that is I'm sure most would think it a huge invasion of privacy to have to have all that data about you on record for them to check against when you show up.

So yes on base I dont' have to remove my shoes. However they also know who I am. Why I am here, where I am going, who on base vouched that I have a reason to be there etc days before I ever show up.

 

[Carriemel]

Here's the thing. The woman involved did not go through a metal detector, nor was she able to stand up in the scanner, due to her being in a wheelchair. Of course she was going to get a pat-down search. That is the ONLY way to ensure that she didn't have any prohibited items on her person.

Do you all realize that TSA has caught a number of individuals who have knives attached to their chairs, or a gun under the seat padding of their chairs? I don't care WHO you are, if you're coming through a screening checkpoint, you're doggone well going to be checked.

Perhaps someone got a bit "aggressive" with the screening. I wasn't there to see exactly what happened.

But to close my thoughts, let me ask you something: would you want to get on a plane with your children/parents/SO without EVERYONE being checked, including those in wheelchairs?

Full disclosure - I work for TSA.

 

[NotUrsula]

IME, Denver has some of the most self-important TSO's in the country. There are a lot of retired military personnel working that airport, and I've seen power trips past counting in the lines there. It does not surprise me at all that this incident happened in Denver.

Oh, and as to this:

But to close my thoughts, let me ask you something: would you want to get on a plane with your children/parents/SO without EVERYONE being checked, including those in wheelchairs?

I'd be absolutely fine with it, because I am realistic about the actual level of risk. Research outside the US has indicated that random checks work just as well when combined with behavioral observation. A disabled individual with Pre-Check, in particular, should not need to undergo invasive screening.

The VAST majority of passengers are not planning on doing anyone any harm, even if they do happen to be carrying a Leatherman tool or a phillips-head screwdriver (or to give a nod to Star Wars Day and Peter Mayhew's run-in with Denver TSO's, a custom-made lightsaber-shaped walking cane http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...ayhew_s_light_saber_cane_prohibited_past.html)

You simply cannot eliminate EVERY person wishing to do harm, because the truly motivated will find a way around existing checks, whatever they may be, and to imply that the standard screening process is the primary means to "keep us safe" is disingenuous at best. Billions of dollars have been wasted on poorly-vetted technology that was ineffective, when it might have been better spent on salaries, classroom training for LEO's and in support of the intelligence community. There is risk inherent in any kind of travel, but even without the TSA standard screening process, you are hundreds of times more likely to suffer a tragic fate in an automobile than you are in a commercial airliner.

We've been conditioned by the media and by Homeland Security to harbor an unreasonable fear of terrorism, when the truth is that the risk of that happening to any given person is actually infinitesimally small in comparison to being killed in a traffic accident. We all need to step back and regain our sense of perspective.

 

[Unas]

Here's the thing. The woman involved did not go through a metal detector, nor was she able to stand up in the scanner, due to her being in a wheelchair. Of course she was going to get a pat-down search. That is the ONLY way to ensure that she didn't have any prohibited items on her person.

Do you all realize that TSA has caught a number of individuals who have knives attached to their chairs, or a gun under the seat padding of their chairs? I don't care WHO you are, if you're coming through a screening checkpoint, you're doggone well going to be checked.

Perhaps someone got a bit "aggressive" with the screening. I wasn't there to see exactly what happened.

But to close my thoughts, let me ask you something: would you want to get on a plane with your children/parents/SO without EVERYONE being checked, including those in wheelchairs?

Full disclosure - I work for TSA.

You missed the fact that she was pre check and also the fact that TSA acknowledged that their staff went too far. If you are an Airport Security Screener and think a pat down was required, perhaps additional training is in order.

 

[Unas]

Am I missing something? What has this to do with Disney Vacation transportation questions?

Pixie dust?

 

[Ranger111]

We've been conditioned by the media and by Homeland Security to harbor an unreasonable fear of terrorism, when the truth is that the risk of that happening to any given person is actually infinitesimally small in comparison to being killed in a traffic accident. We all need to step back and regain our sense of perspective.

A voice of reason in the wilderness....

 

[kamik86]

We've been conditioned by the media and by Homeland Security to harbor an unreasonable fear of terrorism, when the truth is that the risk of that happening to any given person is actually infinitesimally small in comparison to being killed in a traffic accident. We all need to step back and regain our sense of perspective.

100% agree. To the one above that asked if I would rather get on a plane where everyone hadn't been checked. Yes I would rather we stop assuming everyone is a criminal to stop the few that are.

When groups have tried to get past security measures at TSA checkpoints the success rates have been incredibly high. I am not a criminal and yet can think of several ways to get around the TSA requirements.

So instead we make a huge burden on everyone and confiscate water bottles and bug spray...

 

[Ranger111]

100% agree. To the one above that asked if I would rather get on a plane where everyone hadn't been checked. Yes I would rather we stop assuming everyone is a criminal to stop the few that are.

Another wilderness traveler!

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't consider having a patdown to being treated like a criminal.

And if someone has concealed a weapon in a wheelchair, as our resident TSA employee states she has seen, then, um, they kinda ARE a criminal. Or they are at least acting like one.

Anyone is subject to additional security. Even those with Pre.

I don't watch videos (I homeschool so my son is always here, and I never know what I'm going to hear/see) but I read the article. In it she says ""They go around your breasts, they basically go under your butt and the just grab things, not grab, they touch things that are not appropriate and it's really embarrassing,""

So she was embarrassed, but she doesn't specify how. Yes, they go *around* your breasts. Absolutely. When standing, they do go up to your butt but it's the side of the hand that touches it. Since she's paralyzed from the waist down, I doubt she could be in a standing position for that part of the patdown, so yep, it would be awkward. Doesn't mean that that part of it was done wrong, though. She says "not grab" and corrects herself to say "touch things"...not sure what was being touched.

Now, we weren't there, we didn't review the video of what happened (unless the video was in the video that I didn't watch), I'm going only by what was being said.

I get that she was told that something inappropriate happened. But she sure isn't stating WHAT was inappropriate.

 

[Carriemel]

You missed the fact that she was pre check and also the fact that TSA acknowledged that their staff went too far. If you are an Airport Security Screener and think a pat down was required, perhaps additional training is in order.

It doesn't matter if she's PreCheck or not. If you aren't able to walk through a metal detector or stand up in a scanner, you MUST be screened. It is absolutely required. Look, there have been a large number of precheck passengers who have been caught with guns in their carry on bags. You think it's fine to let THEM (who might be ok, or might be up to no good - there's no way for us to be absolutely sure of their intentions) just go on their merry way onto a plane?

 

[NotUrsula]

Well, yes, if Pre-Check does what it is supposed to do. That's the point of pre-check; to determine the likelihood of someone "being up to no good". I know that you know that the vast majority of people who end up at checkpoints with firearms in their possession are not trying to sneak them past; they either forgot they were there or genuinely believed that their particular circumstance allowed them to bring the weapon on board.

You're defending the rules (and that's understandable; it's your job, and you have to follow the rules to keep it, and you have to believe in it to keep showing up for work), but you are not looking at it from a logical POV. The truth is that people who are making a real concerted effort to try to sneak weapons on board usually get away with it; it is the careless ones who get caught. Last year a DHS report showed a 96% success rate for DHS agents smuggling "weapons" through checkpoints. http://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-...idespread-security-failures/story?id=31434881 If that many are getting through, then the checkpoint system isn't actually working. Again, I believe that truly effective interdiction of actual bad guys comes from elsewhere in the system.

I'll give you an example of a TSA checkpoint rule that I've encountered that makes absolutely NO sense. I'm OK with going barefoot/sockfooted in airports, not squeamish at all about what I might step in. It used to be my habit to just take off my shoes before security and put them in my carryon bag to save time. Now I've been told that I can't do that, that the shoes that I wore to the airport MUST go into a bin to be x-rayed separately in order to get a clear picture of them. So, I've asked several times if that meant that I also needed to put the other prs of shoes that were in my carryon bag separately into a bin? The answer, every time? No, only the ones I was wearing. Can you not see how illogical that is? There is absolutely nothing to stop me from switching shoes just before or after the checkpoint, so if you really need to closely examine my shoes, then you need to closely examine ALL of the shoes in my possession at the time.

 

[Ranger111]

Can you not see how illogical that is? There is absolutely nothing to stop me from switching shoes just before or after the checkpoint, so if you really need to closely examine my shoes, then you need to closely examine ALL of the shoes in my possession at the time.

The problem is, you are being logical. This is not logic. This is theatre. You suspend logic when you walk into the arena.

You just have to keep saying to yourself "I believe, I believe" and everything will be fine. No logic involved. Got it?

 

[Unas]

I don't consider having a patdown to being treated like a criminal.

snip

Oh? Other than cops arresting someone and prison guards, where else in the USA are "pat downs" used?

 

[FCDub]

Oh? Other than cops arresting someone and prison guards, where else in the USA are "pat downs" used?

Concerts? Sporting events?