Warning: Walmart Rant Ensues

[TuckandStuiesMom]

I'm glad you feel a little better.

Thank you for your concern about my feelings.

I think that even though you were ebarassed, they did have cause to detain you.

Not that I want to belabor this but I don't think that is the case. There are other measures that can be taken that constitute reasonable cause. Specifically: Did a floor employee report seeing me engaging in any of the activities outlined in ARS §13-1805? Did the store's security cameras record me engaging in any of the activities outlined in ARS §13-1805?.

Additionally, proving that I DID buy the items in my basket can be accomplished in other ways. For instance: a record of what is purchased at each register is generated at the same time the receipt is printed. That could be checked. The same goes for individual item UPCs; a comparison could be made on a sampling of the items in someone's basket to the items sold in the store that day.

One of my several points of concern about this incident is that the burden should be on the store to prove that I (or anybody else) engaged in illegal activity -- not that the burden should be on me to prove that I (or anybody else) did not.

(Interestingly, there was no mention of the use of alarm devices in the relevant statute -- I suspect that is because the method used to deactivate them is so unreliable).

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Additionally, proving that I DID buy the items in my basket can be accomplished in other ways. For instance: a record of what is purchased at each register is generated at the same time the receipt is printed. That could be checked. The same goes for individual item UPCs; a comparison could be made on a sampling of the items in someone's basket to the items sold in the store that day.

I don't really understand what you're saying here.
How can they check their record at the regiser against the items you have- if they don't stop you to see the items you have and let you walk out the door? How can a comparsion be made to the items in someone's basket if they don't stop the person to look at the items they have? *confused*

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Maybe it depends on the Walmart.....the other day I bought something, did the self check out thing.. paid and put it in the bag.. As I was leaving something must have needed to be deactivated so I beeped going out the door.. no one even approached me.. so talk about lax security at this Walmart.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

I'm also a white male, got harrassed by a Walmart greeter very recently because the cashier forgot to deactivate my Xantrex-3 diet pills. It took 5 minutes to find which item it was. The guy questioned every item on my receipt while rifling through my bags in front of everyone. Working for a large retailer myself I know that I am not legally required to show proof of purchase at the door (with the exception of club stores like Sam's where showing a receipt is in you membership contract). I could have kept walking, it's not like that 90 year old at the door was going to stop me. Especially since I was hopped up on diet pills

Geesh!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

I don't really understand what you're saying here.
How can they check their record at the regiser against the items you have- if they don't stop you to see the items you have and let you walk out the door? How can a comparsion be made to the items in someone's basket if they don't stop the person to look at the items they have? *confused*

Okay -- I was lucky. I actually DID find my receipt before additional fecal material hit the rotating unit. What if I had inadvertently pitched it with my drink cup when I left the McDonald's? I do not honestly know. Maybe they would have let me leave with my groceries. Maybe they would have let me leave without my groceries. Maybe they would have called the cops (that would have SO been the icing on the cake).
The point that I was making is that the whole shooting match doesn't hinge on me keeping that strip of paper. If the situation had devolved to the point where I was an actual (please remember the reasonable cause citation) shoplifting suspect, other (admittedly less convenient for the store) avenues exist, to determine if the items had been paid for.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The point that I was making is that the whole shooting match doesn't hinge on me keeping that strip of paper. If the situation had devolved to the point where I was an actual (please remember the reasonable cause citation) shoplifting suspect, other (admittedly less convenient for the store) avenues exist, to determine if the items had been paid for.

But the simplest, fastest, and most efficient means of proving that the customer paid for the items the customer removes from the retail location IS "that strip of paper" - and keeping it (not just in possession, but relatively readily available for examination if requested) simply makes sense - in ANY retail situation.

By law all they can do is ask "is this a service dog?"

Not to get off the main topic of this thread, but I think you can also legally be asked what service/s the animal provides for you that you cannot provide for yourself - or something to that effect. What they CAN'T do is make you prove it.

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Okay -- I was lucky. I actually DID find my receipt before additional fecal material hit the rotating unit. What if I had inadvertently pitched it with my drink cup when I left the McDonald's? I do not honestly know. Maybe they would have let me leave with my groceries. Maybe they would have let me leave without my groceries. Maybe they would have called the cops (that would have SO been the icing on the cake).
The point that I was making is that the whole shooting match doesn't hinge on me keeping that strip of paper. If the situation had devolved to the point where I was an actual (please remember the reasonable cause citation) shoplifting suspect, other (admittedly less convenient for the store) avenues exist, to determine if the items had been paid for.

I think you're trying to make issues where they aren't. I think it's just a walmart thing and not a racial thing.
If you want to just vent about how walmart treats PEOPLE (of all races)- well, we all know they don't even treat their employees well, they aren't about to do any special favors of treating their customers well.

But the simplest, fastest, and most efficient means of proving that the customer paid for the items the customer removes from the retail location IS "that strip of paper" - and keeping it (not just in possession, but relatively readily available for examination if requested) simply makes sense - in ANY retail situation.

I agree

 

[Goobergal99]

A night's sleep has helped me put this into perspective a little bit and I am no longer so upset. I continue to reflect on that experience and am still concerned about what occurred...

In my state, detention require "Reasonable Cause" From Arizona Revised Statutes §13-1805 re: Shoplifting; detaining suspect...

"... C. A merchant, or a merchant's agent or employee, with reasonable cause, may detain on the premises in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time any person who is suspected of shoplifting as prescribed in subsection A of this section for questioning or summoning a law enforcement officer...

Subsection A defines the act of shoplifting as "A person commits shoplifting if, while in an establishment in which merchandise is displayed for sale, the person knowingly obtains such goods of another with the intent to deprive that person of such goods by:

1. Removing any of the goods from the immediate display or from any other place within the establishment without paying the purchase price; or

2. Charging the purchase price of the goods to a fictitious person or any person without that person's authority; or

3. Paying less than the purchase price of the goods by some trick or artifice such as altering, removing, substituting or otherwise disfiguring any label, price tag or marking; or

4. Transferring the goods from one container to another; or

5. Concealment."
I am quite sure none of my activities in the that store yesterday could possibly be construed as conforming to those criteria.

Several posters here have mentioned that Walmart in their areas, requires inspection/verification of EVERY receipt. Although that makes me CRINGE from a customer satisfaction perspective, I think that policy from a human rights perspective is better than what may or may not be random checks without any explanation. Having slept on it, I am even more committed to spending a few hours there next Saturday to see who gets stopped and who doesn't. If I see and document what I reluctantly think that I might, I plan to ask some questions.

I am surprised by the number of people who have expressed the opinion that it's no big deal to be stopped, checked, and prevented from leaving this way. It's true that the Fourth Amendment only applies to the government and its agents... But GOLLY -- this behavior is still an erosion of what it means to live in a civil society. Why does Walmart do this and Nordstrom's does not? What if you wear a jacket to Walmart that you had previously purchased there, wouldn't the next logical step be requiring the receipt be stapled to the inside of the collar to prove that it had been paid for? And after that...who knows? Naked shopping? Body cavity searches? I am being silly here -- but honestly -- where is it reasonable to draw the line?

GOOD DISCUSSION, EVERYBODY!

my sentiments exactly... people are always willing to give up liberties in this country as to not make a scene... I have real issues with that personally which is why I have refused to pull out my receipt the last few times I have been to wal-mart.... and guess what.... nothing happened!

 

[kaytieeldr]

my sentiments exactly... people are always willing to give up liberties in this country as to not make a scene...

Whether one agrees with their practices or not, WalMart - any retail establishment - is a private business and can, within reason (and requiring presentation of a current receipt from customers leaving the establishment with purchases IS reasonable) set its own rules. Persons disagreeing with any or all of those rules are FREE to not patronize that establishment.

 

[Goobergal99]

Whether one agrees with their practices or not, WalMart - any retail establishment - is a private business and can, within reason (and requiring presentation of a current receipt from customers leaving the establishment with purchases IS reasonable) set its own rules. Persons disagreeing with any or all of those rules are FREE to not patronize that establishment.

See, I disagree as I do not think it is reasonable to ask everyone who walks out of the store with a cart full of paid for goods to show proof at the door.... just as I don't think it is reasonable for the airlines to tell me that 3oz of liquids is safe enough that I can carry it on but 4oz has the potential for terrorism... but thats just me I guess

 

[kaytieeldr]

As I said, if you disagree with a store's practices, you are free not to shop there. If you feel being required to show proof that you paid for your purchases is a violation of your rights (although I'm not sure where in the Bill of Rights "shopping" is addressed), shop places that don't have that rule.

And, the airlines have NOTHING AT ALL to do with determining the size of any liquids that can be transported THROUGH SECURITY - that's the realm of the Transportation Security Administration, a government agency.

If you want to bring a GALLON of liquid on the plane, that's fine with the airline. You simply need to obtain that liquid once you're through the security checkpoints.

 

[DVCajun]

See, I disagree as I do not think it is reasonable to ask everyone who walks out of the store with a cart full of paid for goods to show proof at the door.... just as I don't think it is reasonable for the airlines to tell me that 3oz of liquids is safe enough that I can carry it on but 4oz has the potential for terrorism... but thats just me I guess

Yeah, but all wal-marts do it, no matter the race of the customer. So does their other chain, Sams. We comply cuz we want to shop there. (NOT!! HATE that place!! )

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Okay -- I was lucky. I actually DID find my receipt before additional fecal material hit the rotating unit. What if I had inadvertently pitched it with my drink cup when I left the McDonald's? I do not honestly know. Maybe they would have let me leave with my groceries. Maybe they would have let me leave without my groceries. Maybe they would have called the cops (that would have SO been the icing on the cake).
The point that I was making is that the whole shooting match doesn't hinge on me keeping that strip of paper. If the situation had devolved to the point where I was an actual (please remember the reasonable cause citation) shoplifting suspect, other (admittedly less convenient for the store) avenues exist, to determine if the items had been paid for.

It's funny you say this...the only time we keep receipts is for big ticket items that if they break we'll need to warranty them through the manufacturer or through AMEX. Otherwise, usually as soon as the cashier gives us the reciept its crumpled up, often thrown away right there at the register or tossed into some bag somewhere.

I think the whole process Walmart is trying to do is a tough balance. At what cost to customer service and to the customer experience are they willing to pay to control loss? Some of it I blame on themselves, they have been a long time driver of smaller and smaller packaging (which is great for the environment), but smaller means easier to walk off with too.

 

[turkygurl]

I will start by saying that I don't shop at Wal-Mart anymore. All the ones around us are dirty and nasty, and there is a really nice Super Target that we would have to pass to get to either Wal-Mart in our area. That being said... I have shopped at Wal-Mart many times in the past (I grew up in a REALLY small town, and Wal-Mart was all we had). The ones near us check everyone's receipts, and if you buy a big ticket item in Electronics or Sporting Goods, they will radio ahead to the front of the store and let them know you are exiting the store. The Super Wal-Mart in my hometown, where my mom shops at least twice a week, now has at least 3 people checking receipts to make sure they aren't missing anything.

 

[grarsh]

I was at Wal-Mart with a coworker who is black, and she was looking for some different types of hair products. The Wal-Mart didn't have any products for people of color in the cosmetics/hygiene section. When we asked if they carried any products, the employee told her to just use some Pantene and she'd be fine.

I'm willing to give the employee the benefit of the doubt that she didn't mean to be insensitive or dismissive, but that's how her comment came off. I think that a lot of times it boils down to people not being aware or knowledgeable of people that are different from them. I think that the employee that randomly stops someone and asks for a receipt may be racial profiling, whether they consciously realize they are doing it or not.

Either way, it absolutely does not make it ok, but I guess that's all you can get from Wal-mart.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I understand that in some parts of the U.S., Walmart is the only place to shop. That's a shame. I think stores like Walmart are the reason we need to put some controls on the free market. I never shop at big-box retailers. I shop locally. My community is more important than saving a few bucks a week.

 

[rosiep]

And after that...who knows? Naked shopping? Body cavity searches? I am being silly here -- but honestly -- where is it reasonable to draw the line?

GOOD DISCUSSION, EVERYBODY!

Hey love- I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's an embarrassing situation at best, a mean spirited singling out at worse and aggravating as all get out.

But I really like the naked shopping idea...do you think we can start a revolution????

 

[Ashes8380]

Here in upstate NY we have some of the best grocery stores, including Wegmans. Specifically our Wegmans in Dewitt is larger then some Super Walmarts in size comparison (the store is 141,000 square foot and is truly just a grocery store - also note, the largest in all of the stores in the chain). Wegmans also has been in the top 10 for best companies to work for year over year for around 5 or so years and in the top 100 for the past 10. If you look at Walmart though, it is a behemoth of a company, no doubt and a fiscally powerful one, but in terms of service and internal employee satisfaction, its pretty close to bottom of the barrell. We do have a few Walmarts around the area, but between their poor customer service, overall poor quality of produce (with limited organic options) and the fact that Wegmans is so great, there is little reason for us to ever shop there from a food perspective.

omg can I just say that I am borderline OBSESSED with Wegmans? I lived in Rochester from 2002 - 2006 and still miss Wegmans! It brings grocery shopping to a whole new level (yes, I realize how ridiculous I sound!). Man, I miss western NY, Wegmans being only one of the reasons.

 

[danielmorgan03]

I love Wal-Mart. They have helped to keep inflation in check. Without downward pressures exerted by Wal-Mart through their suppliers (economies of scale) we may be paying more for consumer staples.

 

[Nie0214]

Maybe they stopped 10 white people that day and you were the only non-white, you really just don't know. When I worked at JCPenney for a few months back in college, we were trained to keep "shrinkage" (aka theft, losses, etc.) to a minimum. Now that retail profits have decreased because of the economy, it wouldn't surprise me at all that companies are really enforcing the rules with their employees to minimize losses.

I have been followed by employees in Best Buy when I'm just browsing through the DVDs because I don't know which movie I want to buy (and I'm a 22yo, white female, usually dressed in business clothes because I stop at the store on my way home from work).

I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood (I haven't lived in Maine for even 1/10th of my life), and I think people jump on the "profiling" bandwagon a little too quickly sometimes.

That said, I haven't been inside a Walmart in two years (I refuse to shop there), so I can't tell you if I've ever seen them checking receipts in my town.