W. Va Hospitals Will Fire Unvaccinated Workers

[FireDancer]

I just wanted to highlight that because every now and then someone posts something that simply takes your breath away and all you can say is "Wow..."

Let's hope that either your immune system is somehow super-human or that you aren't unfortunate enough to come across an organism that normal human immune systems all too often cannot "handle".

We are talking about a flu vaccination here, not Ebola. More people get and recover from the flu every year then die from it.

I eat right, take vitamins, and exercise daily. Somehow it has managed to keep my immune system firing on all cylinders. I'm not anti-medicine nor do I refuse all medical treatment or convention but for me lifestyle is the first tool in the battle against disease, not pills and shots. I'm not even against all vaccination but I am against the mandating of any vaccination and I am especially against mandating a vaccine for something that is so survivable.

I'm no more afraid of getting the flu then I am of getting a sunburn. I don't want either but if I do I'll get over it. If I am ultimately wrong and the flu manages to kill me I guess you can say "I told you so".

 

[mhsjax]

I have known a few people to have this flu, guess what, none of them died. I have three kids and no one is there schools have died. Yes I know that people do, but like Firedancer, I will take my chances, I very rarely get sick and I am not a germaphobe, which is probably why I don't get sick. I actually come into contact with germs sometimes. Shocking isn't it.

 

[FireDancer]

I have known a few people to have this flu, guess what, none of them died. I have three kids and no one is there schools have died. Yes I know that people do, but like Firedancer, I will take my chances, I very rarely get sick and I am not a germaphobe, which is probably why I don't get sick. I actually come into contact with germs sometimes. Shocking isn't it.

You must be one of those silly people that even get dirty from time to time.

 

[mhsjax]

You must be one of those silly people that even get dirty from time to time.

Yep you caught me, Shoot, I even live by the 20 second rule instead of 10 second rule for food on the floor and that is even if I haven't mopped in a couple of days. I like to live dangerously. lol

 

[chloelovesdisney]

The seasonal flu isn't a problem this year, the vaccine is unnecessary. A young healthy person may feel they are better off taking their chances with the flu than the vaccine, it's their body and they should have the basic right to make that decision. The vaccine does carry risks. A nurse I work with had a rare immune reaction to the seasonal vaccine last year, was hospitalized for month, and out of work for another two months or so after that. She nearly had an AICD implanted due to complications from the low risk vaccine.

We can take our sick time at my hospital when needed without getting in trouble, unless you call out sick more than 6 separate occasions in 12 months, and really who gets sick that often. Those with a chronic illness are covered by intermittant FMLA and can call out sick as much as they want.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Something I just thought about.. the military doesn't care about religous reasons when it comes to vaccines. The only reason they will allow you to skip a shot is if you're allergic. You can get in a heck of a lot of trouble for skipping the shots, more than just getting fired from a civillian job.

For the record, this is incorrect. DoD guidelines permit servicemembers to request, and Commanders to grant, exemption from vaccination on religious grounds. See paragraph 2-6b(3) of this regulation, which applies to all service branches. I have a military client whom I am assisting with pursuing a religious exemption from vaccination.

If the request for a religious exemption is denied, then the servicemember can be disciplined if he or she refuses vaccination. However, the fact remains that all service branches do permit servicemembers to request exemption on religious grounds.

Sorry for the diversion from the main topic.

 

[locolala]

Sorry PC, I haven't actually read the various regs (I should have, but didn't). Now I know better . I know the CO of my old unit was very pro vaccine and made it difficult to refuse vaccines. He would make you come in and show scripture or other religious texts that say not to do them.

On another note, it irritates me when people don't vaccinate and then their kid gets me or other kids sick. For example, my DTaP shot is over due, and I can't get it while pregnant. If I get pertusis (whooping cough) I'm really quite outta luck.. I'm allergic to the main antibiotics they treat it with. One of the kids I babysit for had pertusis not long ago and I'm terrified that it's going to spread among the kids in my neighborhood. A lot of them aren't vaccinated for one reason or another, and pertusis could spread like wildfire here.

 

[Praying Colonel]

^No sweat, locolala. Most servicemembers don't know about the possibility of exemption, either. I've been doing military legal assistance for 12 years and I've only had 2 clients come in to discuss the possibility.

 

[Bluestars]

I don't think anyone should be forced to be vaccinated. If a person wants to protect themselves, they can do it. If they don't feel it's necessary, they should have the right to skip it. Everyone should be able to do what they believe is best for themselves.

My family and I got the H1N1 and flu vaccinations. If nobody else wants to get it, it will not bother me at all.

 

[lsyorke]

I am not aware that the health service was crippled in 2008 - 2009 by excessive staff absence due to seasonal flu even though the vaccination rate was so low. Do you?
The premise is incorrect
The idea that unvaccinated hospital workers pose a serious threat to anyone is unproven at best? Certainly last years low vaccination rate does much more than imply that.

Exactly! Medical professionals use universal precautions and isolation procedures to protect their patients. The immunocompromised are well know and special precautions are taken. Having the flu shot is not one of these precautions. If a medical professional is sick they stay out of work so that they don't compromise their patients.

The whole premise of the mandatory vaccine is and absurd, feel good measure. Until they stop visitors from entering a hospital to visit "immunocompromised grandma" and the whole host of other non employees from entering the patient care area the vaccination of a chosen few is a moot point.

Amazingly, even with the low hospital vaccination rates, patients aren't catching the flu and dying due to their nurse not having had a flu shot.

 

[Carly_Roach]

That is all the hospital is asking these people to do and I don't think they are asking too much.

And this is where I disagree. To tell a citizen that they have to put a foreign body - ANY foreign body - into their own body in order to earn a living or attend a public gathering (such as school), I believe that's going too far. Once employers have the precident set that they can tell people what to do or how to behave when they're off the clock, more demands will come.

I'm glad I'll be dead by the time America finally reaches the point where "Land of the free and the home of the brave" bears no resemblence to its citizens. Right now it seems that much of the populace is hell-bent on giving up their freedoms (or giving up other people's freedoms which will eventually lead to everyone's freedoms) because they're afraid of something.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Sorry PC, I haven't actually read the various regs (I should have, but didn't). Now I know better . I know the CO of my old unit was very pro vaccine and made it difficult to refuse vaccines. He would make you come in and show scripture or other religious texts that say not to do them.

On another note, it irritates me when people don't vaccinate and then their kid gets me or other kids sick. For example, my DTaP shot is over due, and I can't get it while pregnant. If I get pertusis (whooping cough) I'm really quite outta luck.. I'm allergic to the main antibiotics they treat it with. One of the kids I babysit for had pertusis not long ago and I'm terrified that it's going to spread among the kids in my neighborhood. A lot of them aren't vaccinated for one reason or another, and pertusis could spread like wildfire here.

So the fact that you didn't keep up with your shots becomes everyone else's problem?

 

[wdwfan16]

Sorry PC, I haven't actually read the various regs (I should have, but didn't). Now I know better . I know the CO of my old unit was very pro vaccine and made it difficult to refuse vaccines. He would make you come in and show scripture or other religious texts that say not to do them.

On another note, it irritates me when people don't vaccinate and then their kid gets me or other kids sick. For example, my DTaP shot is over due, and I can't get it while pregnant. If I get pertusis (whooping cough) I'm really quite outta luck.. I'm allergic to the main antibiotics they treat it with. One of the kids I babysit for had pertusis not long ago and I'm terrified that it's going to spread among the kids in my neighborhood. A lot of them aren't vaccinated for one reason or another, and pertusis could spread like wildfire here.

You are 24 and you are made that kids in your neighborhood are not vaccinated again whooping caugh but you obviously were not vaccinated as a kid again whooping caugh. If you were vaccinated as a kid this would be a none issue right now. Remember this when your Dr. wants to give the vaccine to your child. Your kid could be protecting another unborn child.

 

[shrubber]

Exactly! Medical professionals use universal precautions and isolation procedures to protect their patients. The immunocompromised are well know and special precautions are taken. Having the flu shot is not one of these precautions. If a medical professional is sick they stay out of work so that they don't compromise their patients.

The whole premise of the mandatory vaccine is and absurd, feel good measure. Until they stop visitors from entering a hospital to visit "immunocompromised grandma" and the whole host of other non employees from entering the patient care area the vaccination of a chosen few is a moot point. Amazingly, even with the low hospital vaccination rates, patients aren't catching the flu and dying due to their nurse not having had a flu shot.

Seems very true.....

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

We are talking about a flu vaccination here, not Ebola. More people get and recover from the flu every year then die from it.

I eat right, take vitamins, and exercise daily. Somehow it has managed to keep my immune system firing on all cylinders. I'm not anti-medicine nor do I refuse all medical treatment or convention but for me lifestyle is the first tool in the battle against disease, not pills and shots. I'm not even against all vaccination but I am against the mandating of any vaccination and I am especially against mandating a vaccine for something that is so survivable.

I'm no more afraid of getting the flu then I am of getting a sunburn. I don't want either but if I do I'll get over it. If I am ultimately wrong and the flu manages to kill me I guess you can say "I told you so".

Yeah - how wonderful for you! I too have a great immune system and never get sick - and if I was just selfishly concerned about myself I would not get it. However I get the flu vaccine to not protect only myself but people I come in contact with at the store, the mall, the airplane, etc.

Just because I am healthy enough to fight off the flu, I feel a moral obligation as a member of the human race to care about others as well.

 

[FireDancer]

Yeah - how wonderful for you! I too have a great immune system and never get sick - and if I was just selfishly concerned about myself I would not get it. However I get the flu vaccine to not protect only myself but people I come in contact with at the store, the mall, the airplane, etc.

Just because I am healthy enough to fight off the flu, I feel a moral obligation as a member of the human race to care about others as well.

I don't follow the logic. If someone at the store, mall, or airplane is so worried about the flu they would get vaccinated. If I, in turn, get the flu and come in contact with them they would be just fine since they were vaccinated. If the flu I have is different then the one prevented by the vaccine it wouldn't have done anything anyway as the vaccine doesn't stop all strains.

If on the other hand they are not vaccinated I feel no moral obligation to take preventative measures against myself that they are not willing to take against themselves.

In the end we all have a choice as to how we medicate ourselves and what criteria we use. As long as it is a choice I don't care what other people do I only care about what I do.

 

[Geoff_M]

We are talking about a flu vaccination here, not Ebola. More people get and recover from the flu every year then die from it.

The same is true for Bubonic plague for that matter. If you think I was referring to exotic bugs that rarely touch our shores when I said that, you'd be mistaken. There are plenty of "normal" bugs that are capable of killing or maiming. The last wave of H1N1, for example, had a noted streak of killing outside of the normal playbook and striking down perfectly healthy people like yourself with perfectly functioning immune systems, who took vitamins, who exercised regularly, had positive outlooks on life, etc. And you also don't have to die to be affected for life. One of my grandfathers lost a significant portion of his hearing due to a case of plain ol' Measles.

I'm no more afraid of getting the flu then I am of getting a sunburn. I don't want either but if I do I'll get over it. If I am ultimately wrong and the flu manages to kill me I guess you can say "I told you so".

However, you don't get sick in a vacuum... you become part of the disease vector. Unless you're taking about something like tetanus or rabies, odds are you were infected by another person. Likewise there's a very good chance that when you get sick, you in turn are infectious even before symptoms appear and stand a good chance of passing it on to someone else. And while this may not pose a problem for the vaccinated (though vaccination does not offer 100% protection), you do pose a problem for the unvaccinated (whether due to medical contraindication or choice).

 

[sbell111]

I also work in a hospital.
And I get vaccinated.

BUT maybe all of you should realize that as a health care worker if I miss more then 6 days a year due to sick leave I can be fired!!!
So many, many of my friends/coworkers come to work sick. And have gotten there patients sick. Because they are afraid of losing there jobs. In some parts of the country there is a health care worker shortage but not where I live. People cant loose there jobs.

How about some outrage over this.

It seems like the bolded bit is the best reason of all to require them to be vaccinated.

I have known a few people to have this flu, guess what, none of them died. I have three kids and no one is there schools have died. Yes I know that people do, but like Firedancer, I will take my chances, I very rarely get sick and I am not a germaphobe, which is probably why I don't get sick. I actually come into contact with germs sometimes. Shocking isn't it.

The problem is, these healthcare workers are not just taking chances with their own health. They are taking them with the very lives of their patients.

The seasonal flu isn't a problem this year, the vaccine is unnecessary. ...

Tell that to the 36,000 people who die each year from the seasonal flu.

... If a medical professional is sick they stay out of work so that they don't compromise their patients.

Ummm, just above, two medical professionals stated that they don't have the freedom to take off simply because they are sick. Therefore, medical professionals ARE compromising the health of their patients.

The whole premise of the mandatory vaccine is and absurd, feel good measure. Until they stop visitors from entering a hospital to visit "immunocompromised grandma" and the whole host of other non employees from entering the patient care area the vaccination of a chosen few is a moot point.

I think that you are wrong. Here's why:

Lets say that you come into contact with five medical professionals while in the hospital and you receive five visitors. If no one is vaccinated and the flu is especially bad, your odds of being exposed by these people might be as high as ten out of ten, right? Now, imagine that you are in a hospital that required all of it's staff to be vaccinated. Now, your odds of being exposed by these people are reduced to five in ten. Given that many (most?) sick people will not visit someone in the hospital, your true odds would be much less.

Amazingly, even with the low hospital vaccination rates, patients aren't catching the flu and dying due to their nurse not having had a flu shot.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. Also, it is directly refuted by an earlier poster (see above).

And this is where I disagree. To tell a citizen that they have to put a foreign body - ANY foreign body - into their own body in order to earn a living or attend a public gathering (such as school), I believe that's going too far.

No one is forbidding these people from earning a living. They are welcome to go work somewhere else.

Once employers have the precident set that they can tell people what to do or how to behave when they're off the clock, more demands will come.

Ummm, you realize that employers have always been able to dictate many after hours activities (or the lack thereof), right?

I'm glad I'll be dead by the time America finally reaches the point where "Land of the free and the home of the brave" bears no resemblence to its citizens. Right now it seems that much of the populace is hell-bent on giving up their freedoms (or giving up other people's freedoms which will eventually lead to everyone's freedoms) because they're afraid of something.

I asked you earlier in teh thread to eplain which freedoms are being given up in this scenario and you didn't respond. Please share which specific freedoms you feel are being violated by this employer.

... If on the other hand they are not vaccinated I feel no moral obligation to take preventative measures against myself that they are not willing to take against themselves.

What if they are allergic to eggs and therefore cannot take the vaccine? As a medical professional, would you not be duty bound to avoid placing them in harm. Would the hippocratic oath not require you to do so? What is wrong with a hospital requiring it's staff to live up to the oath that they swore to?

 

[Geoff_M]

And this is where I disagree. To tell a citizen that they have to put a foreign body - ANY foreign body - into their own body in order to earn a living or attend a public gathering (such as school), I believe that's going too far. Once employers have the precident set that they can tell people what to do or how to behave when they're off the clock, more demands will come.

I'm glad I'll be dead by the time America finally reaches the point where "Land of the free and the home of the brave" bears no resemblence to its citizens. Right now it seems that much of the populace is hell-bent on giving up their freedoms (or giving up other people's freedoms which will eventually lead to everyone's freedoms) because they're afraid of something.

Let's step back for the ledge for a second and look at some facts. For starters, the issue at the center of your concern is not new. As others have pointed out here, the requirement of vaccination for work in healthcare facilities has been in place for a long time. This does not represent some new assault on the rights of workers/students.

Also, there are legally recognized limits on what employees can medically require of their workers. For example, in current case law the SCOTUS has held that workers cannot be barred from jobs that expose them to known fetal hazards unless they show proof of medical sterilization.

 

[Piecey]

And this is where I disagree. To tell a citizen that they have to put a foreign body - ANY foreign body - into their own body in order to earn a living or attend a public gathering (such as school), I believe that's going too far. Once employers have the precident set that they can tell people what to do or how to behave when they're off the clock, more demands will come.

I'm glad I'll be dead by the time America finally reaches the point where "Land of the free and the home of the brave" bears no resemblence to its citizens. Right now it seems that much of the populace is hell-bent on giving up their freedoms (or giving up other people's freedoms which will eventually lead to everyone's freedoms) because they're afraid of something.

We just really don't see eye-to-eye on this at all!

I agree with the fact that no one should be able to force me to put a chemical/foreign body/whatever into my body.
It should be my choice.

I still view this as the hospital workers do have a choice! They just forfeit their jobs for making a certain choice.
I don't see how that negates freedom or any of the values of our country. They are welcome to leave and find another job and there are other hospitals in Charleston and the surrounding area.
If CAMC weren't an hour from here I'd happily deliver my baby there rather than the local hospital ... because now I know they are all vaccinated.

I do believe that the hospital is enforcing this rule to try to save the lives of their patients and employees and I think they are well within their (constitutional) rights to do so.
The first few deaths of H1N1 (which I know is not the vaccine they're mandating) were ALL in Charleston. Then it slowly spread to my town. I have friends that go to college there and they said it was crazy when people started dying.