Non-Disney Online Games Virtual Family Kingdom Thread

[KingQuackATac]

It is why COPPA is around...because it is a parent's responsibility.

(9) VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT.—The term "verifiable parental consent" means any reasonable effort (taking into consideration available technology), including a request for authorization for future collection, use, and disclosure described in the notice, to ensure that a parent of a child receives notice of the operator's personal information collection, use, and disclosure practices, and authorizes the collection, use, and disclosure, as applicable, of personal information and the subsequent use of that information before that information is collected from that child.​

It is a safety measure to make sure that any child under the age of 13 has parent's approval before giving out the information that VFK (and other websites) request. One of the biggest things with the statute is that the website operator who has requested information about children under the age of 13, must "protect the security or integrity of its website". This is the area that sticks in Aengus' and many other people's craw. There is no security on this website. It is not encrypted. There are no safety measures in place to keep the log-in information, registration information, etc. from falling into other people's hands.

For a full read of the COPPA regulation go to http://www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

Not to mention that same lack of encryption holds true with the credit card information sent to VFK. As a poor masters student, I don't want my credit card information out for anyone to see. I'm going to need that available balance in about 6 weeks for books. But, that is a second place concern for me....the kids safety might ultimately be the parents concern as you say, but it has to be ours as well. You are putting your head in the sand if you believe that every parent in the world knows what is going on in their children's lives.

I'm an adult. I am smart. I am internet savvy. Yet, I was just a party to fraud for 14 months by someone I considered a very good friend on VMK. Everything that I was told was a lie...gender, story, facts. I talked and played with this person every day. We shared a relationship outside of VMK. This person lives at home with her parents. Yet, her parents had no idea this deception was going on in their house...in their daughter's life. The parents were TOTALLY clueless. And, as smart as I am, as old as I am, and as internet savvy as I am, I was still gulled. Took me 14 months to find out, and will take several years in therapy to work it out.

What is going to happen to the 10 year old who isn't as savvy as you and I? Whose parents are clueless as to what he does? Whose parents believe that their information is safe when they hit enter on that keyboard?

The only personal info VFK asked for was a first and last name, and an email address.

What's more important for my under-13 year olds is what their eyes see in game and that the things they can say are limited to game-related topics.

I'm really sorry about what happened to you on VMK. I can understand why you're even more passionate about this subject. I don't approve of scamming in anyway, and I'm it probably happens in most on-line games.

Even though other games have a PG-13 rating, I still would not want my children when they are between 13-17 years old playing a game with unlimited text, which can include lots of bad stuff. That's my choice as a parent. If I did choose to let them play a game like that, my job is to monitor what's going on. That is much more difficult to do with unlimited text.

VFK has a "constitution" which doesn't allow a variety of things. I am watching for things that are unsafe or inappropriate (not that it's my responsibility) and report things to VFK staff when I see it. And they have been very responsive, banning players immediately or asking them them not to do it.

I agree VFK needs to resolve these issues. Hopefully they will.

 

[KingQuackATac]

Not sure if you read this, but this was deep in the thread.



To elaborate further, Sociotown has taking on game guides. These are individuals who are there to help individuals and to moderate in the game. Several VMK players/DIS Members serve this role. Additional changes are in the works as well.

As for Smallworlds, many of us have spoke with staff and asked for "behavior modification" in the game. At one point, they allowed a radio in a public area to play "anything you can imagine", we suggested in the game to be limited to acceptable songs and a few days later the change was made.

As for Gaia, AmberDaze published an awesome guide and has pointed out the best possible way for us to be safe.

While we know these games are not perfect, several DIS members have made strides to communicate and help these games make changes so that others can enjoy and be safe. The community here is trying to find fun homes and safe places for us to play.

I'm thankful for everything this community is doing to keep kids safe. BRAVO!

 

[TLinden16]

The only personal info VFK asked for was a first and last name, and an email address.

But once they started taking paid subscriptions, they were taking credit card info, and I would presume addresses (which are usually required when you use a credit card online).

I'm not under 13, nor do I have a child under 13, but know that most sites have a box to check when you sign up to signify that you are over the age of 13. Does VFK have that? I never signed up so I don't know.

 

[threeboysmom]

I hope you understand its important to bring them back up as new people from our forums read this everyday and I hope they read these things before even thinking about joining the game.

Maybe this has already been discussed... I'm not up to reading the past few pages this morning, BUT...

Why can't you just put a disclaimer in the first post, Aengus. Lay out all your concerns and cautions about the game. Post a warning - proceed with caution... play this game at your own risk...

And if you're so concerned about the "children's safety" all you you need to do is slap a PG-13 rating in the first post like you do for the others that are discussed here on the board.

There. Done. No need to keep flaming away at the game and endlessly "warning" people of the dangers of VFK. I'd really like to see the SARCASM stopped in this thread.

Once the first post is in place, the rest of us can be free to go back to discussing the game itself.

 

[Dreamytime]

The only personal info VFK asked for was a first and last name, and an email address.

If I send an email to that email address you gave me, doesn't matter if it is one just made or your normal everyday email you use to respond to your husband, aunt or grandmother, and you respond to me, I can find out where you live.

That scary enough for you? I found that out during my 14 month scamming. Even using a hotmail account. I was pinpointed when I was at home or at school...enough information was sent along with my email to tell exactly where I was.

 

[cyre]

I'm an adult. I am smart. I am internet savvy. Yet, I was just a party to fraud for 14 months by someone I considered a very good friend on VMK. Everything that I was told was a lie...gender, story, facts. I talked and played with this person every day. We shared a relationship outside of VMK. This person lives at home with her parents. Yet, her parents had no idea this deception was going on in their house...in their daughter's life. The parents were TOTALLY clueless. And, as smart as I am, as old as I am, and as internet savvy as I am, I was still gulled. Took me 14 months to find out, and will take several years in therapy to work it out.

oh my gosh if its who im thinking of, then omg! hug you poor thing!

 

[Dreamytime]

oh my gosh if its who im thinking of, then omg! hug you poor thing!

Yeah. Things are not what they appear to be sometimes.
TY for the hug.

 

[snowgracefulstone]

Maybe this has already been discussed... I'm not up to reading the past few pages this morning, BUT...

Why can't you just put a disclaimer in the first post, Aengus. Lay out all your concerns and cautions about the game. Post a warning - proceed with caution... play this game at your own risk...

And if you're so concerned about the "children's safety" all you you need to do is slap a PG-13 rating in the first post like you do for the others that are discussed here on the board.

There. Done. No need to keep flaming away at the game and endlessly "warning" people of the dangers of VFK. I'd really like to see the SARCASM stopped in this thread.

Once the first post is in place, the rest of us can be free to go back to discussing the game itself.

Seems like a perfect solution to the problem....new players are a lot more apt to read the first post in this thread, then to read thru 220 pages, attempting to pick out the safety issues. As the issues are resolved, they can be removed from the post, that way it makes it very easy for children and adults to see what the current, ongoing safety issues are and they can make an informed decision. I can guarantee that most people just starting in this game are not reading this thread all the way through before they decide whether to play or not, they are probably getting thru the first 50 pages or so and saying the heck with it and signing on, lol. I too want to make sure everyone on this board is informed enough to make their own decisions, this seems like the best and most efficient way to do so and that way we get our thread back...to discuss the fun we are having and help other players in the game.
Or set up two posts.....one strictly to discuss the safety issues in the game.
For those that are unhappy with this website and the way they are conducting themselves have to agree, their is no better way to get the safety issues across than a completely different thread titled....Warning!! Things you should know before playing VFK. Makes sense to me

 

[dudeonator]

Pink, I totally agree with you about the sarcasm going on here. Here's what the disboards guidelines say about it.

3. NO FIGHTING/SARCASM: While we'd like to think that a Disney fan site is always lighthearted, there are times when there are disagreements. Let's face it, there are certain topics that can transform any of us into a raging "Donald Duck." When you sense this is happening, we ask that you step away from the discussion before it escalates into a fight. Just like Mom always said about fighting, we don't care who started the argument and we don't want it on the DIS. (Okay, she didn't say the part about the DIS, but you know what we mean.) No attacking others and no sarcasm please. Either will result in an infraction.

 

[KingQuackATac]

If I send an email to that email address you gave me, doesn't matter if it is one just made or your normal everyday email you use to respond to your husband, aunt or grandmother, and you respond to me, I can find out where you live.

That scary enough for you? I found that out during my 14 month scamming. Even using a hotmail account. I was pinpointed when I was at home or at school...enough information was sent along with my email to tell exactly where I was.

Sounds very scarry. Again, I'm very sorry this happened to you. But VMK was using COPPA - and it didn't stop this from happening.

 

[KingQuackATac]

Maybe this has already been discussed... I'm not up to reading the past few pages this morning, BUT...

Why can't you just put a disclaimer in the first post, Aengus. Lay out all your concerns and cautions about the game. Post a warning - proceed with caution... play this game at your own risk...

And if you're so concerned about the "children's safety" all you you need to do is slap a PG-13 rating in the first post like you do for the others that are discussed here on the board.

There. Done. No need to keep flaming away at the game and endlessly "warning" people of the dangers of VFK. I'd really like to see the SARCASM stopped in this thread.

Once the first post is in place, the rest of us can be free to go back to discussing the game itself.

I agree.

 

[KrazyPete]

There's actually not a lot of disagreement here. Everyone knows there are problems with VFK. Should they be following COPPA? Sure. Are they copying VMK to the point of infringment? Maybe so. Are there risks to children who may be playing the game unsupervised? Yup. Should credit card information be encrypted when it's transferred online? Yes. Does anyone disagree with any of that?

There is some disagreement as to the seriousness of each these issues. Let's talk about it. I love debate. I wanted this thread for precisely that reason. The pros and the cons of the game should be fully and publically vetted. That's what is good for this community.

Here's my main issue with this thread right now; I don't believe for one second that every cheap shot taken at this game is "for the children." I've tried to keep my mouth shut about it but I am bothered by the snarky comments and I don't think it's good for this community.

My other (lesser) problem is simply that once you make a point you don't have to repost it over and over again. All of these issues are continuing to be discussed. They get mentioned in the natural flow of the conversation. You're not going to create agreement simply by repetition. In fact, it's annoying.

ETA: I don't mean to single out any one person with this. If you feel this post is a personal attack then you may be part of the problem but it's not solely directed at you.

 

[snowgracefulstone]

There's actually not a lot of disagreement here. Everyone knows there are problems with VFK. Should they be following COPPA? Sure. Are they copying VMK to the point of infringment? Maybe so. Are there risks to children who may be playing the game unsupervised? Yup. Should credit card information be encrypted when it's transferred online? Yes. Does anyone disagree with any of that?

There is some disagreement as to the seriousness of each these issues. Let's talk about it. I love debate. I wanted this thread for precisely that reason. The pros and the cons of the game should be fully and publically vetted. That's what is good for this community.

Here's my main issue with this thread right now; I don't believe for one second that every cheap shot taken at this game is "for the children." I've tried to keep my mouth shut about it but I am bothered by the snarky comments and I don't think it's good for this community.

My other (lesser) problem is simply that once you make a point you don't have to repost it over and over again. All of these issues are continuing to be discussed. They get mentioned in the natural flow of the conversation. You're not going to create agreement simply by repetition. In fact, it's annoying.

ETA: I don't mean to single out any one person with this. If you feel this post is a personal attack then you may be part of the problem but it's not solely directed at you.

Couldnt agree with you more, just want to add one thing, i think the reason there is not a lot of disagreement on here now is that a lot of "the supporters" of the game have stopped posting, and that is too bad. If u go back.....say 100 pages or so, lol, there is a lot of disagreement

 

[TLinden16]

Maybe this has already been discussed... I'm not up to reading the past few pages this morning, BUT...

Why can't you just put a disclaimer in the first post, Aengus. Lay out all your concerns and cautions about the game. Post a warning - proceed with caution... play this game at your own risk...

And if you're so concerned about the "children's safety" all you you need to do is slap a PG-13 rating in the first post like you do for the others that are discussed here on the board.

There. Done. No need to keep flaming away at the game and endlessly "warning" people of the dangers of VFK. I'd really like to see the SARCASM stopped in this thread.

Once the first post is in place, the rest of us can be free to go back to discussing the game itself.

Pink, the one thing about this is that a lot of people don't naturally go to the first post on a thread. If a thread is as long as this, they are going to want to read the most recent information on it.

While it would be helpful to have that information in the first post, it is just as helpful to have it in later posts and as things come up, especially when there is so much concern surrounding it.

Repeatedly warning people about the dangers of VFK is not sarcasm. Complaining about the similarities to VMK and what is clearly a company infringing on Disney's intellectual property is not sarcasm. We all are welcome to voice our opinions here as long as we are respectful.

If you love the game, and want to play it, that's fine. That's your business. You're welcome to come here and talk about it.

While I can understand people who are looking at VFK as a way to fill the void left by VMK, I have to admit that I can't completely understand why people are so vigorously defending a company with very shady business practices.

While I respect people's rights to play and enjoy this game, I have to admit that I can't understand completely understand why people are trusting their credit card numbers with a company that doesn't follow the COPPPA laws, don't have a secure site to protect people's personal information, and has such shady business practices (i.e. registered domain names the day after vmk announced the closure, copies Disney's intellectual priority). I guess I can't understand why people aren't concerned about protecting themselves when there is so much identity theft and internet fraud out there.

 

[TLinden16]

All this talk about vfk has me wondering something.

Are all of the old VMK staff who joined on as VFK still active in the game? When was the last time you saw the old VMK staff who are now VFK staff on VFK?

With all the discussion this may have gotten lost and I just wanted to put this out there again to see when the last time the active players on VFK have seen the former VMK staff members in the game.

 

[Cardinal]

Maybe this has already been discussed... I'm not up to reading the past few pages this morning, BUT...

Why can't you just put a disclaimer in the first post, Aengus. Lay out all your concerns and cautions about the game. Post a warning - proceed with caution... play this game at your own risk...

And if you're so concerned about the "children's safety" all you you need to do is slap a PG-13 rating in the first post like you do for the others that are discussed here on the board.

There. Done. No need to keep flaming away at the game and endlessly "warning" people of the dangers of VFK. I'd really like to see the SARCASM stopped in this thread.

Once the first post is in place, the rest of us can be free to go back to discussing the game itself.

But why would anyone check the first page in such a long thread?

 

[KrazyPete]

With all the discussion this may have gotten lost and I just wanted to put this out there again to see when the last time the active players on VFK have seen the former VMK staff members in the game.

I saw Phinny recently. I would say it was within the last week or so.

 

[KrazyPete]

But why would anyone check the first page in such a long thread?

Because they are new to the board/discussion? I try to read an entire thread before I post in it. In the case of a thread like this one I would certainly read the first one.

 

[beejer]

Thank you KrazyPete and threeboysmom for your opinions. I was going to quit posting but you encouraged me to return.

I see Surfer daily as well as Lion. I have been busy playing games which I enjoy.

By the posts, here I feel I am regarded as some fool for trusting the game. I gave my credit card over the phone, and as far as wasting money, I have spent much more on one dinner out that I only have to work off the next day with extra exercise. But I do regard the incessant warnings as overpowering any game discussion. My friends do not understand why I continue to return to the thread because they have left.

If posters here are not interested in discussing game events and strategies, I will not continue posting. I will read to keep informed but I have no further input on the negativity. And my comments have nothing to do with the right and necessity of expressing opinions.

 

[Mamacita]

The difference in the games is this, Sociotown and Smallworlds don't allow children under 13 to play. When I see that I look no further, my younger kids, including my 13 year old, aren't allowed to play. After much investigation I'm allowing my 15 year old to play Smallworlds but she knows my nose is in everything she does there. VFK presents itself as a child safe game, and while I am happy it's being moderated in game, parents allowing their children to play a child safe game have expectations that the site has proper security measures in place. Not all parents are internet savvy enough to know what to look for, but the site should be following these rules if they are going to present themselves as being child safe. Besides the violation of COPPA, these kids are being presented with this family plan which is making it extrememly tempting for them to share info with other players outside the game, and that is a very very dangerous thing and we've seen that it's already happening on the message boards.
That is why I keep speaking up, yes I do think that the game is a cheap knock off of VMK and that the company running it has little to no integrity in my eyes, but it's the danger that keeps me posting.