VGF makes me sad :(

[lockedoutlogic]

Can someone clarify what "walking" is in relation to this discussion?

I mean...I know what "walking" means in hotels...I sure as heck know what it means in Disney hotels...but it doesn't seem to translate here.

 

[ziravan]

Can someone clarify what "walking" is in relation to this discussion?

I mean...I know what "walking" means in hotels...I sure as heck know what it means in Disney hotels...but it doesn't seem to translate here.

You can book up to 7 nights at 11 months. DVC allows you to modify reservations.

So, if I want to book three weeks from now, I book 7 nights now, and every five days drop the last 5 and add the next five until I "walk" into my reservation. Because nobody can book before 11 months, once the first day is secured 3 weeks out (or however far out you choose to start walking) nobody can step in front of you for the reservation. You are blocking your competitors for access to the reservation.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You can book up to 7 nights at 11 months. DVC allows you to modify reservations.

So, if I want to book three weeks from now, I book 7 nights now, and every five days drop the last 5 and add the next five until I "walk" into my reservation. Because nobody can book before 11 months, once the first day is secured 3 weeks out (or however far out you choose to start walking) nobody can step in front of you for the reservation. You are blocking your competitors for access to the reservation.

Oh ok...

...
.....
That's 100% reprehensible behavior. Anyone doing this should be ashamed. I'll hold the line on this point.

 

[ziravan]

Oh ok...

...
.....
That's 100% reprehensible behavior. Anyone doing this should be ashamed. I'll hold the line on this point.

Is Walking a Reservation Unethical? 235 posts so far.
http://www.disboards.com/threads/is-walking-a-reservation-unethical.3463509/

 

[DebbieB]

If anyone was actively stalking the website today, then you would have noticed full weeks available, for studios, during the beginning of December.

I don't see a full week now. November 30 is available. December 1,2,3,10,12,13 (no 14) for standard. Lake view has December 13 and after, so you could book a full week if arriving December 13 or 14. Nothing before.

Interesting thing I just noticed, Poly has a standard or lake view studio available starting July 5 for the rest of the year.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Is Walking a Reservation Unethical? 235 posts so far.
http://www.disboards.com/threads/is-walking-a-reservation-unethical.3463509/

I don't know if there needs to be a discussion...

It's violating the contract and the rules of the program...it's denying fair rights to everyone that agreed to the same contract.

Because Disney has a loophole...doesn't make in ok. And shame on Disney for not figuring out a way to detect/stop this. They are lazy via computer - as always

 

[ziravan]

I don't know if there needs to be a discussion...

It's violating the contract and the rules of the program...it's denying fair rights to everyone that agreed to the same contract.

Because Disney has a loophole...doesn't make in ok. And shame on Disney for not figuring out a way to detect/stop this. They are lazy via computer - as always

Nevertheless. There are very few places or times where you need to walk a reservation to guarantee success.

BWV standard view during F&W.
AKV value or concierge anytime.
VGF studio in Dec.

This thread is exactly on point. My guess is that more than half of the 43 or so studios (47-4 fixed weeks each week) for VGF for first two weeks of Dec are being walked.

If 30 members are walking (and I wouldn't be surprised if that number were higher), then only a dozen or so rooms are truly avail each morning at 11 months. Or fewer, depending on the number of walkers.

That's way the rooms always disappear right at 8. Already small supply cut in half or worse on the 11 month date by walking.

Walking is allowed. If you want the room, and it's important to you, you either compete where the competition is at, or you lose out. If I were looking to book VGF studio in early Dec, I'd walk.

So long as the rules allow my competitors to do so, I wouldn't devalue my contract by yielding access when I wanted to stay. I'd compete where competing wins.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Walking is allowed. If you want the room, and it's important to you, you either compete where the competition is at, or you lose out. If I were looking to book VGF studio in early Dec, I'd walk.

So long as the rules allow my competitors to do so, I wouldn't devalue my contract by yielding access when I wanted to stay. I'd compete where competing wins.

It is not "allowed"...it is simply an oversight/loophole in the system that should be eliminated. As in rules on modifications - such as reservations can be modified for confirmed bookings at 11/7 months MINUS 7 days...

That is 100% possible and appropriate.

It's just wrong and slimey. I equate it to "cheat if you can"...and "everyone else does it" not being a valid excuse for that.

 

[ziravan]

I disagree and that's why there's a 235 post thread on the subject.

It is within the rules because DVC interprets the rules and they allow it. It may in fact be a loophole, but it's a loophole that DVC has determined is within the rules they've set.

If I were to take steroids to get a leg up in sports, that would be cheating BECAUSE it's against the rules and if you get caught, they will ban you.

You can call MS and straight up tell them, "it's time to walk my reservation." It's not against the rules, so not cheating.

DVC sets and arbitrates the rules. They allow walking. Ergo, it's not against the rules.

Maybe it should be, but that's a different discussion.

 

[Dean]

It's not like they didn't know demand for studios would be problem with only 47 of them. That's not a reason to reallocate. It's different when certain views are not what they are supposed to be ( ie: going from Lake view to standard like they did at BLT). That's different so I can see where that change needed to happen.

Didn't they change BLT after sales started but before it opened. IMO if there is a discrepancy at a given resort and they have enough info to be confident it's a long term trend, they not only should reallocate but have the obligation to do so. IMO it's irrelevant that it was or should have been known up front or even if they did it purposefully.

I don't know if there needs to be a discussion...

It's violating the contract and the rules of the program...it's denying fair rights to everyone that agreed to the same contract.

Because Disney has a loophole...doesn't make in ok. And shame on Disney for not figuring out a way to detect/stop this. They are lazy via computer - as always

This is not accurate. While I personally feel it shouldn't be allowed and that every change should be a cancelation and rebooking, DVCMC is within the rules, contract and laws of the state of FL in doing so. They could make it 14 days if they wanted. The rules simply say one can book starting at 11 months out, there is no wording that precludes a reservation longer than one day. And the POS goes on to say they have full and complete control over the reservation process which this falls under. It's fairly easy to limit but impossible to stop completely. The best and easiest ways to limit are to make every change a cancelation and rebooking and/or to institute fees. Anything else will likely be ineffective and/or cause more issues than it helps. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing along the lines of walking even with cancelation and rebooking unless they hold all cancelations to check the wait list or there are fees sufficient to cause one to pause.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I disagree and that's why there's a 235 post thread on the subject.

It is within the rules because DVC interprets the rules and they allow it. It may in fact be a loophole, but it's a loophole that DVC has determined is within the rules they've set.

If I were to take steroids to get a leg up in sports, that would be cheating BECAUSE it's against the rules and if you get caught, they will ban you.

You can call MS and straight up tell them, "it's time to walk my reservation." It's not against the rules, so not cheating.

DVC sets and arbitrates the rules. They allow walking. Ergo, it's not against the rules.

Maybe it should be, but that's a different discussion.

Have you ever worked at or with DVC?

The didn't "allow" or "interpret" it...they never thought of it and won't take corrective action on it...bet the farm.

I get you're point and wouldn't hold It against you personally...it's tough to get screwed and have to lose on the morale high ground.

I blame Disney for the flaw...

But this seems like a sham for the falsely self important.

Right and wrong are still usually defined...people waste too much time trying to justify painting with the grey in the middle

 

[ziravan]

Have you ever worked at or with DVC?

The didn't "allow" or "interpret" it...they never thought of it and won't take corrective action on it...bet the farm.

I get you're point and wouldn't hold It against you personally...it's tough to get screwed and have to lose on the morale high ground.

I blame Disney for the flaw...

But this seems like a sham for the falsely self important.

Right and wrong are still usually defined...people waste too much time trying to justify painting with the grey in the middle

I have no doubt that walking is due to inertia on the part of DVC. But. By inertia or whatever means, this is how they are enforcing their rules. This is how they have to enforce their rules unless they proactively make a rule change to close the loophole. Any change would be the creation of a new rule.

You say falsely self important. I'll say more motivated. More motivated to learn and understand the system. More motivated to take advantage of the rules as enforced.

In any first come, first serve system, the more motivated will be at a distinct advantage. Whether that's waiting hours in line on Black Friday, setting 8am by atomic clock, or walking.

 

[ziravan]

The bottom line is that if you're not walking VGF studio at 11 months in Dec, then there's a very high probability that VGF is going to make you sad.

 

[disneynutz]

We just booked a GV for December and more than one MS CM told us to walk the reservation.

Bill

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We just booked a GV for December and more than one MS CM told us to walk the reservation.

Bill

That figures...typical gutless behavior by DVC.

Where is this "policy" in the contract and what is the official designation?

I'm not gonna convince anyone...but unless that's answered I can't change my side of the argument.

I don't see this necessarily as "more motivated"...I think some of the membership frankly has nothing to do. Others can't deal with this type of nonsense.

I'm lucky to have a work environment where I'm independent and can what I want when needed to...

But I can't actively use it as a weapon against other people who don't. It's just not fair. And I pay too...but I am content to not angle in this manner.

 

[Dean]

Where is this "policy" in the contract and what is the official designation?

I'm not gonna convince anyone...but unless that's answered I can't change my side of the argument.

The reservation control is clearly spelled out as under their unilateral control. Otherwise there would have to be wording to prevent it and there isn't. There is no need for it to be spelled out specifically to allow it otherwise. To justify the position you'd need to be able to point to something that prevented it, otherwise it'd be allowed. And the statements of reserving 7 or 11 months out would not do so.

 

[DebbieB]

When you "walk", you are modifying your existing reservation. Where does it say in the contract that you can't modify your existing reservation?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

We just booked a GV for December and more than one MS CM told us to walk the reservation.

Bill

A completely unnecessary recommendation of course.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When you "walk", you are modifying your existing reservation. Where does it say in the contract that you can't modify your existing reservation?

Oh come on...by booking two weeks (or six months...if your bored enough hell why not?) in advance with zero intention of using it on those days?

I'm not convincing anyone here who has an opinion...it is what it is.

My opinion is that the sky isn't that grey...these people know what they're doing and yes...it could bog somebody up legitimately trying to book the rooms
They're tying up...and that's not fair.

 

[Dean]

Oh come on...by booking two weeks (or six months...if your bored enough hell why not?) in advance with zero intention of using it on those days?

I'm not convincing anyone here who has an opinion...it is what it is.

My opinion is that the sky isn't that grey...these people know what they're doing and yes...it could bog somebody up legitimately trying to book the rooms
They're tying up...and that's not fair.

Then point us to the wording in the POS that would prevent it.