VGF makes me sad :(

[lockedoutlogic]

Fixed-week sales began with Aulani, not VGF, and the intent was to provide a more traditional timeshare offering that would appeal to international buyers.

I am one of the members you have described that paid the 10% point increase for a fixed-week contract. To me, the increase was well-worth the investment because I do not have to worry about using VGF points to book any available resort at the 7-month mark for a December reservation.

Although it may sound harsh, VGF exemplifies the importance of understanding the product you are buying.

I'm not following your last line.

But I'll explain my stance: vacation club works as a "non-traditional timeshare" specifically because they rejected what was flawed as cheap, non-descript cookie cutter timeshares...

So to me...that exemplifies the importance of understanding the product you buy.

It's s slippery slope. Don't make it out to be "different" for some. We all walked on in and slapped down the cash (in one form or another) and get the same newsletter.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The issue is that even if it is a non-traditional timeshare, there is a set inventory of rooms at any given time. There is no real way for a non-traditional timeshare, such as DVC, to somehow balance supply and demand for high-demand seasons in low-inventory categories, save to raise prices (point values) further.

Realistically, the people with fixed week studios are the happiest owners at VGF, but also realistically, if you got rid of all the fixed weeks, it would still be a struggle at 11 months to book studios during high season.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The issue is that even if it is a non-traditional timeshare, there is a set inventory of rooms at any given time. There is no real way for a non-traditional timeshare, such as DVC, to somehow balance supply and demand for high-demand seasons in low-inventory categories, save to raise prices (point values) further.

Realistically, the people with fixed week studios are the happiest owners at VGF, but also realistically, if you got rid of all the fixed weeks, it would still be a struggle at 11 months to book studios during high season.

The way to do that would be to not sell as many points per unit. Everybody bought X amount of X unit at X development...it's in the contract...

The only effective way to have less demand at 11 months...if it's a problem...is to limit the fish in the sea.

Grand Floridian is a bit of an enigma...nowhere else has that small of a building had all the categories...

If they wanted everyone to be happy with it...they sure didn't set it up that way.

...and down the lagoon the already move to address that problem...just like they have with other "imperfections" in the past.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Grand Floridian is a bit of an enigma...nowhere else has that small of a building had all the categories...

Grand Californian. It's even smaller.

I'm not sure DVD cares if everyone is truly happy. Once points sell out, they've had their take.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Grand Californian. It's even smaller.

Right...good point.

I was more thinking of beach Club and wilderness lodge...the closest two size wise that didn't put in grand villas due to space constraints.

Or the Polynesian...which is leaving the 1 and 2s for "another day"

Grand Californian...a foreign entity to the majority of DVC...is that way due to space restrictions more than anything. Hopefully they one day figure out how to outfit Disneyland more with DVC.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Why doesn't DVC put a stop to "walking" reservations? I assume that that's what causes this issue. This issue is a large part of what pushed us to sell our DVC (we just closed). Totally messed up when you have to compete with people who "walk" reservations at 11 months and cause there to be no inventory on your 11 month date already.

 

[CarolMN]

Why doesn't DVC put a stop to "walking" reservations? I assume that that's what causes this issue. This issue is a large part of what pushed us to sell our DVC (we just closed). Totally messed up when you have to compete with people who "walk" reservations at 11 months and cause there to be no inventory on your 11 month date already.

I honestly do not think it would make a difference. There would still be more people who want to stay at the VGF in a studio for early December than there are rooms available. Some would be shut out.

My fear is that if DVC decides to stop the ability to "walk", the "fix"they choose would be worse than the problem for many of us.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Why doesn't DVC put a stop to "walking" reservations? I assume that that's what causes this issue. This issue is a large part of what pushed us to sell our DVC (we just closed). Totally messed up when you have to compete with people who "walk" reservations at 11 months and cause there to be no inventory on your 11 month date already.

The reality is that DVC was going to start to be "too big for itself" as time went on no matter what. It "worked" better when they had smaller raw numbers and people casually moved around amongst the different locations at different times of year.

They have overbuilt it - honestly - and it has fundamentally changed people's actions and habits. That's at least what my perceptions have been overtime.

It just doesn't seem all that exceptional when people are on the system at 2 am or even 7:59 am for January awaiting a December midweek reservation. Not leisurely at least...

But if the point was only ever to lock in a room price ( never marketed that way - the flex was always the key sales pitch)...then it's 3x the cost up front these days...and all the wdw hotels are the same thing - no matter the roof color - Hilton quality construction with holiday inn quality staffing (maximum).

If you bounce around...appreciate the different places for what they are...use the calendar effectively...it's still a great thing.

Over time if people become fixated on a certain spot at all times in what's perceived (incorrectly) as a private ivory tower...the whole thing is gonna feel slimey and overstated.

Just my take/fear.

 

[keaster]

I mentioned this on a previous thread...one of the problems is that many people who bought VGF bought only enough points to cover a studio for the times they wanted to go. There are only 47 studios...so demand is always going to be greater than the supply no matter what time of year!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I mentioned this on a previous thread...one of the problems is that many people who bought VGF bought only enough points to cover a studio for the times they wanted to go. There are only 47 studios...so demand is always going to be greater than the supply no matter what time of year!

One of the problems when a studio in one spot is double the cost in points than it is 3 miles away in any direction...it's taking "location, location, location" a bit too far.

Your point Is taken - the "chunks" of the larger, more expensive rooms that were sold as individual contracts strain the system.

So they went on another plane with the poly and went studio nuts coupled with point flooding frivolity on the water.

I'm beginning to think old key west was the right idea and they should have left it at that.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Well, in theory they tried to use point costs (both as purchase, and as booking points) to deal with supply and demand issues. Rarer things typically demand higher costs.

They've kind of carried it on into Poly, where studios aren't rare (but who knows what the warped economics of bungalows do to the 11/7 window in 3 years).

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Over time if people become fixated on a certain spot at all times in what's perceived (incorrectly) as a private ivory tower

Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, for most, likely provides the quintessential Christmas holiday. Together, the two story gingerbread house, Grand Christmas tree, and Grand Floridian Society Orchestra create a picturesque sensory experience that evokes the spirit of classic movie moments and fabled Christmas novels. It is a moment that many, I suspect, would like to find themselves a part.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, for most, likely provides the quintessential Christmas holiday. Together, the two story gingerbread house, Grand Christmas tree, and Grand Floridian Society Orchestra create a picturesque sensory experience that evokes the spirit of classic movie moments and fabled Christmas novels. It is a moment that many, I suspect, would like to find themselves a part.

I have no doubts that what you describe is a common thought pattern.

But from an operational and quality standpoint...all the Disney hotels are the same. The prices are largely arbitrarily set beyond the restaurant differences...

Besides...the wilderness lodge has a more "Christmas feeling"...big secret. And you used to be able to book that for $150 not too long ago...and they've since tripled the price, run into an occupancy problem, and now are pondering mass DVC conversion.

It's all an elaborate headfake based on reputation...the location is the main thing and always will be. But I can make the argument that beach club is the best located resort/DVC for a variety of reasons...so really even location is up for debate.

 

[Dean]

We're at the 11 month window for our planned December trip home...and there's no availability We are a family of 3 and purchased enough points to travel at our favorite times of the year - we have a 4 day trip planned for October already and were excited to book our 4 days in December, but there's not a standard or lake view to be had. We've not had this particular problem before (maybe we've just been lucky?) So now we have the fun of waiting 4 more months to see if we can get in somewhere else

Has this been a consistent issue for other VGF owners traveling in early December?

It was predictable for VGF.

What a horrid policy

It's a common approach. Marriott does this in several ways for high demand weeks like Xmas/NY or top ski weeks, 4th of July some places and event weeks. But they sell the entire resort so other owners don't have direct access at all. It can be a very good option, esp if you want a specific week or time of year.

Lol...that is exactly why timeshares sucked...

And I listened to the original head of DVC describe why they wanted no part of that.

It figures...if it ain't broke, fix it.

Who wants "a week"?...that defeats the whole purpose.

There's a place where I sleep in the same rooms on the same days...it's called "home"

Not really, there are a lot of advantages to fixed week/even fixed units. And most people who vacation in such places go a week. The real advantage to points is to the developer. No more low end weeks to sell, every points buying is buying the time they want in their own mind, usually the high demand weeks. Obviously not everyone can get those times though, reference VGF. Points can be good but there are downsides. They also tend to be more expensive than weeks.

 

[Dean]

I understand you point...

But i respectfully submit that it's "lacking vision" for what they bought

So is buying VGF and expecting to get in for studios. It was predictable and it was predicted to be a difficult to almost impossible reservation even 11 months out day one.

Then that is a function of the point structure for grand Floridian...not the program as a whole.

The amount of points sold should allow for the 11 month window to be reasonably effective.

They keep tinkering with this.

Wait till the points are sold on the bloated poly/wilderness lodge Napoleon bungalows...it's gonna crunch them too.

Again, this is not the function of the points system, points actually makes this issue worse. If more people want X weeks and more want studios, guess what, they will be difficult to reserve. This will never change and likely will get worse. In addition VGF owners are probably the least likely to trade out at 7 months out than any others except possibly VGC.

The problem isn't the amount of points sold. It's the individual contract sizes.

I don't disagree but I'll add it isn't the amount of points in any configuration but the size, points structure, unit configuration/sleeping capacity and demand of the resort.

 

[Dean]

I'm not following your last line.

But I'll explain my stance: vacation club works as a "non-traditional timeshare" specifically because they rejected what was flawed as cheap, non-descript cookie cutter timeshares...

So to me...that exemplifies the importance of understanding the product you buy.

It's s slippery slope. Don't make it out to be "different" for some. We all walked on in and slapped down the cash (in one form or another) and get the same newsletter.

DVC really is a traditional timeshare in todays world. Timeshares have evolved sometimes for good and sometimes not. Points or weeks is not good or bad just different. Points likely works better for most people but in part it's because they THINK they're buying the time they want and not realizing they're in competition with the other owners.

The way to do that would be to not sell as many points per unit. Everybody bought X amount of X unit at X development...it's in the contract...

The only effective way to have less demand at 11 months...if it's a problem...is to limit the fish in the sea.

Grand Floridian is a bit of an enigma...nowhere else has that small of a building had all the categories...

If they wanted everyone to be happy with it...they sure didn't set it up that way.

...and down the lagoon the already move to address that problem...just like they have with other "imperfections" in the past.

But that's the nature of a points system, everyone think's they're buying early Dec. In reality some will have to either not use their points, go a different time or stay somewhere else when they can't get what they prefer. It's still based on the concept that the resort will have almost 100% occupancy year around. Selling less points and generating unused inventory is an unreasonable approach from a business standpoint and if they did, the dues would have to go up to match the difference.

 

[GotLabradors]

Would it be better to buy a VGF contract with enough points to get a 1 bedroom villa for the length of time you normally vacation?

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Would it be better to buy a VGF contract with enough points to get a 1 bedroom villa for the length of time you normally vacation?

Yes, 1-bedrooms are significantly easier to book than studios and have better availability at the 7-month mark throughout the year.

 

[DJJimmy9]

Yes, 1-bedrooms are significantly easier to book than studios and have better availability at the 7-month mark throughout the year.

Just curious...how easy is it to get A VGF Grand Villa at the 7-month mark?

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Just curious...how easy is it to get A VGF Grand Villa at the 7-month mark?

For the first few days of December 2016, I had noticed that there was availability and a full week could have been easily booked.