Verizon striking

[threecrazykids]

People are pretty sick of outsourcing. I know I am. Companies are starting to catch on to that. I actually had a credit card customer service recording specifically tell me they were located in Ohio. And I will make sure I keep them for that reason. I'm tired of talking to "Peggy' in India.



Onsite technicians are certainly not the only union people working for Verizon. There are plenty of jobs that can be outsourced anywhere. Any type of call center could be history with the flip of a switch. Including the centers the technicians have to call into when out on a job. Then customers will wonder why it is taking so long to get their service hooked up.
And many of the jobs are very skilled. Do you know how much training some of the employees put in? Would you like to be up on a pole or in a bucket truck without that training? Oooops, I just disconnected a whole street. Oh, is that the wire that will get me electrocuted? Unless you have done one of these jobs, you really don't know.

Again...this is just reinforcing my point...if these jobs are union jobs people need to realize they ARE replaceable (and very easily at that!) Not ONLY by outsourcing, but by people on the unemployment lines.

If these "highly skilled jobs" could be history with "one flip of the switch" I'd certainly be thinking about how hard I want to bite the hand that feeds me.

It's the nature of the beast...with EVERY company. Highest profit at the lowest cost. If companies could get rid of employees, making their product 100% automated, and make an extra 100 billion...trust me THEY WILL! Yes, it's corporate greed. But corporate greed isn't exclusive to Verizon.

Give Verizon a reason to WANT to keep your job here. I can ASSURE you...the behavior of the people on the picket lines over the last few days gives Verizon more and more reason to give these people NO concessions.

 

[undertheradar]

Here in CA our calls are already being answered by call centers located outside of the USA. I have spoken to Canada, the Philipines, and India in order to address issues with FIOS. So how would this outsourcing impact what has already been outsourced?

 

[luvestodizz]

Another solution to the Outsourcing of America is to not speak to a foreign agent. Immediately ask to speak to a rep in the US. My Dad does this and as long as there are domestic agents, you will transferred. I work for a company that has outsourced customer service and sales reps. The errors they make are mind boggling, from spelling errors,to just not following company procedure. If the customers refuse to speak to them, guess which country would get more jobs back???

Thanks to all who support the Verizon workers. Remember, united we stand!

 

[eliza61]

Again...this is just reinforcing my point...if these jobs are union jobs people need to realize they ARE replaceable (and very easily at that!) Not ONLY by outsourcing, but by people on the unemployment lines.

If these "highly skilled jobs" could be history with "one flip of the switch" I'd certainly be thinking about how hard I want to bite the hand that feeds me.

It's the nature of the beast...with EVERY company. Highest profit at the lowest cost. If companies could get rid of employees, making their product 100% automated, and make an extra 100 billion...trust me THEY WILL! Yes, it's corporate greed. But corporate greed isn't exclusive to Verizon.

Give Verizon a reason to WANT to keep your job here. I can ASSURE you...the behavior of the people on the picket lines over the last few days gives Verizon more and more reason to give these people NO concessions.

So then why not fight for what you deserve. According to you no matter what you do, companies have the right to treat you any way they want with the simple threat "I'll ship your job oversees".

According to your analysis, no matter what you do, if the bottom line is dollars you're out the door.

Sorry, I teach my kids to stand up for their beliefs and I'm not about to let a company treat me like crap on a stick and blackmail me with "its a recession, all the companies are doing it"

 

[eliza61]

Another solution to the Outsourcing of America is to not speak to a foreign agent. Immediately ask to speak to a rep in the US. My Dad does this and as long as there are domestic agents, you will transferred. I work for a company that has outsourced customer service and sales reps. The errors they make are mind boggling, from spelling errors,to just not following company procedure. If the customers refuse to speak to them, guess which country would get more jobs back???

Thanks to all who support the Verizon workers. Remember, united we stand!

We do this all the time at my job. when we call the tech support, the nanosecond the agent identifies himself I politely but firmly request that they escalate it to a stateside representative.

 

[eliza61]

That isn't the argument. Companies will bench mark themselves against similar companies. When company A learns that their 5 closest competitors are not offering a pension, company A has a choice. Either they stress that difference as an advantage to working for them, or if times are tough, they decide the pension is a reasonable loss.

I'm not hoping you lose your extra perk, only pointing out that the playing field is self leveling.

but you are using that as an argument as why one should not to fight the cuts. which imo is basically wishing everyone get less because you got shafted.

Like I said I'm lucky that my company recognizes the real cost saving method is to attract the best and the brightest. So while we do look at what other companies in our market do, we also take in account the money, time and lost productivity it takes to retain excellent employees.

We offer benefits precisely so we don't have to endure costly and lengthy work interruptions and we retain excellent employees.

Which in turn keeps us as a global leader in our field. which in turn brings in more revenue, which in turn leads to higher profits.

 

[melmar136]

So then why not fight for what you deserve. According to you no matter what you do, companies have the right to treat you any way they want with the simple threat "I'll ship your job oversees".

According to your analysis, no matter what you do, if the bottom line is dollars you're out the door.

Sorry, I teach my kids to stand up for their beliefs and I'm not about to let a company treat me like crap on a stick and blackmail me with "its a recession, all the companies are doing it"

 

[sam_gordon]

I totally agree no one else has mentioned the fact that Verizon wants to OUTSOURCE those union jobs - have any one of you especially the ones that are "welcoming" unions workers to "reality" have to deal with outsourcing??? So I guess I am assuming that this is ok with all of you who call yourselves "American" Shame on you!!!
I don't want to speak to someone with a horrific accent calling themselves John to try and straighten out my issue when I damn well know that a REAL American can probably do the same job here in AMERICA!!
Think about it -How would you like it if you are calling Disney Reservations about planning a trip to Disney in Florida and that reservationist is really in Mumbai where they Google everything to try and prove to you that they are in America???
Verizon Union Workers - stand up and continue your fight Hope it works out for you

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! THIS is exactly what we are trying to prevent.

If this is about outsourcing (which I don't like), why did it take until page 5 of the thread for outsourcing to come up? Everything on the opening pages was pensions, health benefits, etc.

I agree union members have the right to strike. If that's what they want to do, more power to them. I just don't think it's always called for. Until outsourcing came up (meaning union members could be losing their jobs), I don't think health benefits & pensions are worth striking over.

 

[threecrazykids]

So then why not fight for what you deserve. According to you no matter what you do, companies have the right to treat you any way they want with the simple threat "I'll ship your job oversees".

According to your analysis, no matter what you do, if the bottom line is dollars you're out the door.

Sorry, I teach my kids to stand up for their beliefs and I'm not about to let a company treat me like crap on a stick and blackmail me with "its a recession, all the companies are doing it"

Pot? Meet kettle.

Unions do the same thing! Extortion, blackmail...whatever you choose to call it...it's all the same.

They all band together, walk off the job...and tell the company they aren't going to do their jobs until they get X in return.

 

[Muushka]

I don't know if this has been brought up on this thread, but a recall election took place in WI yesterday, which I believe was indicative of how non-union people are understanding the impact of unions, particularly government unions.

 

[melmar136]

If this is about outsourcing (which I don't like), why did it take until page 5 of the thread for outsourcing to come up? Everything on the opening pages was pensions, health benefits, etc.

I agree union members have the right to strike. If that's what they want to do, more power to them. I just don't think it's always called for. Until outsourcing came up (meaning union members could be losing their jobs), I don't think health benefits & pensions are worth striking over.

Actually, this is part of my post on page ONE regarding outsourcing: "and here's a big one, no job security, and the ability to transfer jobs. (hmmm, to India, perhaps?! or to non-union locations"
It has always been part of the whole thing this strike is about. We're not just throwing it in there now to look better to the general public!
We want to keep our JOB! HERE in this country!

 

[OceanAnnie]

Pot? Meet kettle.

Unions do the same thing! Extortion, blackmail...whatever you choose to call it...it's all the same.

They all band together, walk off the job...and tell the company they aren't going to do their jobs until they get X in return.

I don't know if this has been brought up on this thread, but a recall election took place in WI yesterday, which I believe was indicative of how non-union people are understanding the impact of unions, particularly government unions.

I think you are both right.

 

[ccgirl]

IMHO, it comes down to people feeling entitled.

Tying wage increases to performance; do people really think that is bad? At my last job, there was a big lay off and a bunch of dead weight dead beats got to keep their jobs while people that worked their butts off and did most of the work for these dead beats got laid simply due to seniority. I think that is a bad thing.

Wage increases tied to actual performance =

I can't say if it is a subpar insurance plan because I don't know what it is. Is it still one of the big commercial plans? My company was just bought out, new company came in and changed out health and dental. It happens all the time, it's not like they are taking insurance away and leaving you without any - they are wanting you to contribute your fair share.

Pensions - as I understand it, those that already have pensions will be frozen but will still get them. New employees will only have an option of a 401K, is that correct?

I absolutely think an employer should be able to fire an employee for poor performance.

The purpose of companies is to make money.

I'm just not seeing how the company demands are unfair.

 

[Acklander]

Corporate greed has really gotten out of hand. When a company, such as Verison, has record profits, yet decides to cut benefits for no other reason than they want more record profits - I support the strikers. This isn't a case of a company trying to hang on and the union making demands that will put the company out of business with the costs. This is a situation where a thriving company is seeing how much they can get away with. Disgusting.

 

[sam_gordon]

Actually, this is part of my post on page ONE regarding outsourcing: "and here's a big one, no job security, and the ability to transfer jobs. (hmmm, to India, perhaps?! or to non-union locations"
It has always been part of the whole thing this strike is about. We're not just throwing it in there now to look better to the general public!
We want to keep our JOB! HERE in this country!

You're right. You did mention that. But to me, "the ability to transfer jobs" doesn't equal outsourcing (yes it could, but doesn't HAVE to). That could be transferring jobs from NY (for example) to a call center in Atlanta (or elsewhere in CONUS).

"Job Security" is a double edged sword. As has been mentioned by a couple PP, "job security" helps keep "dead weight" around. At the same time, it also prevents management from getting rid of someone for no reason. I've been at my company for 20 years. With the exception of ~6 years I was under contract, I made my OWN "job security". I learned my job and became the one others came to when they had problems.

I don't want anyone to lose their job. However, times change. There is no law that requires an employer to supply a pension, retirement plan, or health plan (yet). That means employees are not ENTITLED to those things. A company can yank them whenever they want. Companies offer them to be competitive in their search for workers.

While I do believe unions CAN serve a valid role, current public perception of unions is low and getting lower. This move by Verizon workers doesn't help.

As far as crossing a picket line (although this strike doesn't affect my area), it depends on what I need to do. If I NEED to go into that business, I will regardless of striking workers or not. People going into a business that has striking workers out front shouldn't be accosted by strikers (not saying that's happening here). Same with people filling in for the striking workers. If you want to strike, go ahead. But you should do it peacefully.

 

[undertheradar]

Since the union members posted part of the memo from Bill Huber, IBEW local 827 President, the facts on the local union website are odd. According to the line the union is taking, this isn't about them, this is an attack on the the American way of life and the Middle Class. The website lists the company demand that the union employees accept the same medical plan that management currently has and that the employee contribution will rise from 7% to 27%. This is confusing since the union employees currently pay zero for coverage, only having co-pays. As for the strikers who were hit by the cars, the police refused to make any arrests for the one who's foot was run over. The union intends to drive that striker to the police station to press charges once the striker is able. All of this info is on the website. What couldn't be found was the amount of compensation Mr. Huber receives. The site did mention that the striking workers earn in a range between $900-$1300 per week. It did not clarify if this was total compensation or just wages. I just find the union directive that this is an attack on the American way of life to be self-serving and believe that they should post the compensation levels of the union employees who are orchestrating this strike.

 

[undertheradar]

Corporate greed has really gotten out of hand. When a company, such as Verison, has record profits, yet decides to cut benefits for no other reason than they want more record profits - I support the strikers. This isn't a case of a company trying to hang on and the union making demands that will put the company out of business with the costs. This is a situation where a thriving company is seeing how much they can get away with. Disgusting.

There is plenty of greed on both sides. This is an area of the company that is losing market share and the number of wired landlines is shrinking by 30,000 - 35,000 lines per month. These employees are directly employed by the landwire division and compensation from that area is rapidly falling. Since the area they are directly responsible for is failing, do you support that the costs for these employees should come from the other divisions of the company? What happens when there is no need for the landline division, is Verizon expected to keep employing these people even though there will be no work for them to do? Like I said, there is plenty of greed on both sides.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Corporate greed has really gotten out of hand. When a company, such as Verison, has record profits, yet decides to cut benefits for no other reason than they want more record profits - I support the strikers. This isn't a case of a company trying to hang on and the union making demands that will put the company out of business with the costs. This is a situation where a thriving company is seeing how much they can get away with. Disgusting.

It's a love/hate relationship isn't it? We are crying out for jobs here in the states. Unemployment at an all time low. Those that have jobs are uncertain how long they will last. Juxtapose that picture with the union issue it is striking.

It isn't about, "I lost mine, you should too.". It's about what is going on around you.

Jobs is the number one issue in this country on many polls, followed by the economy. The two are intertwined. I don't know the whole picture with Verizon. I don't know what they must do with their profits to keep their business going and to grow it. People look at the bottom line and think they have the whole picture. In many cases they don't.

We need jobs. We hate the businesses that provide them.

Something has to give.

 

[Acklander]

We need jobs. We hate the businesses that provide them.

Something has to give.

You know what? We didn't always hate the businesses that provided the jobs. There was plenty of company pride going around. But things have changed. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that the gap between the haves and the have nots has grown quite a bit. On one side you have the businesses who insist that they need the tax credits and loopholes since they're creating the jobs. But instead of creating quality jobs with those tax breaks they're cutting wages and benefits they are paying out the least amount they can get away with and pocketing the difference. Since wages and benefits have been cut so much you now have an entire work base who doesn't earn enough to pay taxes. Since your not getting the taxes from the job creators and your not getting taxes from the ever growing minimum wage earners there is less money in the coffers to pay public service workers so services go down and things start to fall apart.
I applaud the workers who are trying to stand up for fair wages and benefits. Do I think it's going to make a difference? Probably not, personally I think we, as a country, have slipped too far down the slope. I wouldn't be shocked if, within the next couple of years, we see a revolution.

 

[OceanAnnie]

You know what? We didn't always hate the businesses that provided the jobs. There was plenty of company pride going around. But things have changed. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that the gap between the haves and the have nots has grown quite a bit. On one side you have the businesses who insist that they need the tax credits and loopholes since they're creating the jobs. But instead of creating quality jobs with those tax breaks they're cutting wages and benefits they are paying out the least amount they can get away with and pocketing the difference. Since wages and benefits have been cut so much you now have an entire work base who doesn't earn enough to pay taxes. Since your not getting the taxes from the job creators and your not getting taxes from the ever growing minimum wage earners there is less money in the coffers to pay public service workers so services go down and things start to fall apart.
I applaud the workers who are trying to stand up for fair wages and benefits. Do I think it's going to make a difference? Probably not, personally I think we, as a country, have slipped too far down the slope. I wouldn't be shocked if, within the next couple of years, we see a revolution.

I think class warfare is dangerous. There are a lot of variables that come into play with "haves" and "have nots", that fall outside of "business".