Venus Williams accident, I don't understand the legality of this

[bcla]

It looks like this whole story is fuzzy right now. There's reporting on what the police report supposedly says (I haven't seen the actual police report) and what the woman suing is saying in her lawsuit. Those two things don't match. It seems like the story is being sensationalized.

It sounds like the other driver is claiming that she slowed down, then sped up when the light turned green as she entered the intersection believing that her path was clear. Then she said William's car moves.

I don't know if that's what happened, but I could see someone in a backed up intersection where some of the cars could clear, but one driver is just stuck there when it turns red. That is one of the worst feelings when driving. Do you move and risk someone not seeing you? Do you stay there and get honked at by drivers who clearly can see you? Williams (V1) claimed that she was stopped in the median area, but that she didn't see the other car when crossing into the lanes.

This has a photo taken of the narrative description:

http://katv.com/news/nation-world/police-venus-williams-at-fault-in-fatal-car-crash-06-29-2017

 

[wenrob]

I agree. Around here, you'll have 15 people waiting to turn left. The protected green arrow allows maybe four people max to get through, if you're lucky. If the next two people in line don't pull into the intersection to wait for a yielding left turn, you are going to have that left turn lane back up so far, so fast, it's not even funny

Left turns came up within the first few posts. I really didn't see anyone who says they never pull into an intersection and wait differentiate between going straight or turning and really all I was trying to say is there is a difference.

I haven't really seen anybody say they wouldn't pull out into the intersection for a left turn just some debate about how/when it would be proper to do so. Here for a left, green you have the right of way, yellow yield, blinking yellow don't go out there unless you can clear it.

I just saw the GMA video and Venus DID NOT TURN so all this talk about turning is moot. It appears that she was waiting for the traffic to clear in front of her so she could go straight and she got caught in the intersection. She then creeped forward (they said on the video @ 5MPH) to catch up with the traffic when she was t-boned.

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

I did wonder about that. I'm trying to imagine how you miss an SUV in the middle of an intersection. One scenario I thought of was an accident I witnessed years ago. There was a Cadillac at the head of the line, a motorcycle and then me. The light turned green but the Cadillac didn't react right away. The motorcycle jumped on it though and slammed into the back of the Cadillac. The rider went right over the top of the Cadillac. The craziest thing was he got up and walked himself off the road. Anyway the only thing I can think of is that his mind only registered "green light." Wondering if maybe that's what happened here. In that case it seems they bear some of the responsibility. My question would be how long Venus was actually in the intersection for the other car to be up to speed enough to cause that much damage.

 

[wenrob]

It sounds like the other driver is claiming that she slowed down, then sped up when the light turned green as she entered the intersection believing that her path was clear. Then she said William's car moves.

I don't know if that's what happened, but I could see someone in a backed up intersection where some of the cars could clear, but one driver is just stuck there when it turns red. That is one of the worst feelings when driving. Do you move and risk someone not seeing you? Do you stay there and get honked at by drivers who clearly can see you? Williams (V1) claimed that she was stopped in the median area, but that she didn't see the other car when crossing into the lanes.

This has a photo taken of the narrative description:

http://katv.com/news/nation-world/police-venus-williams-at-fault-in-fatal-car-crash-06-29-2017

So she essentially pulled in front of the oncoming car?

 

[bcla]

I did wonder about that. I'm trying to imagine how you miss an SUV in the middle of an intersection.

My reading of the collision report was that Williams entered the intersection on the green, although it was backed up. She said she was stopped in the median, or right in the center of the intersection. The question then would be if she should have just stayed there, or if she should move to try to avoid blocking other vehicles.

Here's the intersection:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/N...2b3ab98abef5176!8m2!3d26.8095105!4d-80.126667

It's one of those intersections where one street becomes another named street at the other end of the intersection.

 

[bcla]

So she essentially pulled in front of the oncoming car?

That's what the other driver claims. I've actually seen something like that before. If you're stuck in the intersection, what do you do? I've made my share of mistakes, although I've never been T-boned before as a result. I've been stuck going slightly into the intersection and blocking the crosswalk. Couldn't back up because of pedestrians and the car behind me. I've made it to the other end but just short. If I can I'll try to duck into to a parking space or shoulder if there is one. I may have even been stuck in the median before. The best thing to do in that case is just wait, although it gets scary when someone is trying to make a left turn and you're stopped right in the middle of the intersection.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I haven't really seen anybody say they wouldn't pull out into the intersection for a left turn just some debate about how/when it would be proper to do so. Here for a left, green you have the right of way, yellow yield, blinking yellow don't go out there unless you can clear it.

I did wonder about that. I'm trying to imagine how you miss an SUV in the middle of an intersection. One scenario I thought of was an accident I witnessed years ago. There was a Cadillac at the head of the line, a motorcycle and then me. The light turned green but the Cadillac didn't react right away. The motorcycle jumped on it though and slammed into the back of the Cadillac. The rider went right over the top of the Cadillac. The craziest thing was he got up and walked himself off the road. Anyway the only thing I can think of is that his mind only registered "green light." Wondering if maybe that's what happened here. In that case it seems they bear some of the responsibility. My question would be how long Venus was actually in the intersection for the other car to be up to speed enough to cause that much damage.

I don't know, maybe it's just me but when the thread is discussing both turning and going straight and someone says something like "I never pull into an intersection unless I will be able to clear it without having to wait" then I think they mean they'd never do it, not I do it when turning.

 

[katie01]

I just saw the GMA video and Venus DID NOT TURN so all this talk about turning is moot. It appears that she was waiting for the traffic to clear in front of her so she could go straight and she got caught in the intersection. She then creeped forward (they said on the video @ 5MPH) to catch up with the traffic when she was t-boned.

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

Turning left is something that I, as the OP, brought up specifically as a separate question. I knew that Venus was not turning left and stated that in my OP. I asked specifically because I wanted to know if "blocking the intersection" also applies to getting caught in the middle of an intersection when making a left turn if oncoming traffic runs THEIR light and leaves you stuck in the intersection basically, forced to continue making your turn after it's turned red.

 

[bcla]

I don't know, maybe it's just me but when the thread is discussing both turning and going straight and someone says something like "I never pull into an intersection unless I will be able to clear it without having to wait" then I think they mean they'd never do it, not I do it when turning.

That's the preferred way in at a busy intersection. Having to wait for it to be perfectly clear will often mean waiting until just the right opportunity presents itself. It's also somewhat less of an issue because if the turning direction is backed up, when it turns green, the drivers in that direction should notice that.

 

[wenrob]

I don't know, maybe it's just me but when the thread is discussing both turning and going straight and someone says something like "I never pull into an intersection unless I will be able to clear it without having to wait" then I think they mean they'd never do it, not I do it when turning.

I'm not sure why you feel like I'm debating with you. You threw the "perfect" jab and then say later you assumed everyone was talking about left turns. Two posts after my first I clarify my position on left turns. You're not fully reading the thread but somehow I'm the one not being clear? The statement about not seeing anyone say they wouldn't pull out for a left was for further clarification, that's it. Not everyone on the DIS is spoiling for a fight.

 

[anniemae]

So she essentially pulled in front of the oncoming car?

Yes. She pulled forward as the other car accelerated through the intersection. Don't know how or why all the left turn stuff started.

She was basically in a tough spot. Should she stay or go? The other driver must have thought she would stay. I am guessing they accelerated at the same time.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

If you watch the video it looks like she was at fault if what they show is true. She was stopped in the wide medium area and should have waited there. Instead she went through when the other side had the green light. It was a multi-lane road and the car closest to her (in the left lane) was stopped, the car in the right lane didn't know she would go through the light so they hit her.

It's a horrible accident, but she was at fault.

Advance the video to :50.

 

[bcla]

If you watch the video it looks like she was at fault if what they show is true. She was stopped in the wide medium area and should have waited there. Instead she went through when the other side had the green light. It was a multi-lane road and the car closest to her (in the left lane) was stopped, the car in the right lane didn't know she would go through the light so they hit her.

It's a horrible accident, but she was at fault.

Advance the video to :50.

I know it's a re-creation, but the graphics aren't necessarily that accurate if compared to what Google Maps shows. That makes it seem like the median divider is wider than the lanes, while it's maybe about 3/4 the width of the lane. They also have the traffic lights hanging from poles, although maybe they have no programming for wires. The re-creation gives the impression that there should have been ample space to just wait it out in the center of the intersection.

From the description, yeah it sounds like she was at fault. It might be difficult to charge her with anything unless it was something reckless.

 

[katie01]

If you watch the video it looks like she was at fault if what they show is true. She was stopped in the wide medium area and should have waited there. Instead she went through when the other side had the green light. It was a multi-lane road and the car closest to her (in the left lane) was stopped, the car in the right lane didn't know she would go through the light so they hit her.

It's a horrible accident, but she was at fault.

Advance the video to :50.

Thank you for posting this, it explains things so much better. When I hear the word "median" I think of a boulevard that separates opposing lanes of traffic in the middle of a major road. I couldn't understand how she was "stopped in a median". Makes sense now, and also makes more sense now how she was at fault. Although as the video said, being at fault doesn't necessarily mean criminal charges will be filed against her, time will tell

 

[bcla]

Thank you for posting this, it explains things so much better. When I hear the word "median" I think of a boulevard that separates opposing lanes of traffic in the middle of a major road. I couldn't understand how she was "stopped in a median". Makes sense now, and also makes more sense now how she was at fault. Although as the video said, being at fault doesn't necessarily mean criminal charges will be filed against her, time will tell

The accident report calls it the "median break". I think they're just trying to say it was the extension of the median out into the intersection. She was stuck in the intersection. I've been there before, and it's kind of hard not to panic when you're worried about being hit by someone who might not notice you're there while concentrating on other directions.

 

[bcla]

There's security camera footage that shows a car cut her off after she'd entered the intersection legally.

http://www.cbssports.com/tennis/new...ully-entered-intersection-in-fatal-car-crash/

 

[adisneyaunt]

I just viewed that tape they released as well. Looks like Ms Williams entered on a green light, she made it thru 6 of 8 ( I think) lanes of traffic heading straight, when it appears she may have paused or stopped ...for another car when she was struck on her passenger side front by the adverse vehicle, and that impact looked hard! The passenger in that vehicle was likely not wearing a seatbelt either, as there appears to be his head impact to his front windshield and airbag deployed.
Very very sad he lost his life, sad all around!

 

[Squirlz]

Saw that tonight. I think she should be suing them. I would never enter an intersection at that kind of speed without making sure it was clear.

 

[jliehr]

There's security camera footage that shows a car cut her off after she'd entered the intersection legally.

http://www.cbssports.com/tennis/new...ully-entered-intersection-in-fatal-car-crash/

And this is why you use caution entering an intersection always, the other driver was driving way too fast for a light that had just rolled green.

Sometimes I think the lights should go yellow then green to remind drivers to be more aware. Lights did this in London and it seemed to make more sense then the typical drop the flag green we get in the US.

 

[bcla]

My link didn't have any video, but several sites have that now. It looks like she was exiting from a gated community, and there was a pretty good camera at the security kiosk.

The driver waiting at security seems to react immediately, and the security guard comes out to investigate. I'm wondering if the driver is known to security and can serve as a witness.

Everything about it now seems like the other driver went through at an unsafe speed and didn't check to see that the intersection was clear. Legally that's not failure to yield right of way if it was generally safe to enter the intersection on a green. A lot of the speculation was that the traffic was blocked ahead and it should have been obvious, but the traffic ahead is obviously clear. She only stopped due to being cut off.

The other driver's attorney seems like a toad. The video destroys any argument had previously had that she entered the intersection without any safe means of clearing it.

 

[bcla]

The Palm Beach Gardens Police Dept has a statement:

http://www.pbgfl.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=308

Statement Regarding the June 9, 2017 Traffic Crash

The Palm Beach Gardens Police Department initiated an investigation into a traffic crash involving Venus Williams on June 9, 2017. The crash occurred at 1:13 P.M. at the intersection of Northlake Boulevard and BallenIsles Drive in the City of Palm Beach Gardens. The passenger of Vehicle 2 (Jerome L. Barson of West Palm Beach, FL) was transported to the hospital where he later died on June 22, 2017.

UPDATE:

After the initial investigation was conducted, new evidence into the incident was located. Video surveillance footage was obtained from a community south of the intersection which recorded the traffic crash. Based on the evidence obtained in the ongoing investigation, it has been determined the vehicle driven by Venus Williams lawfully entered the intersection on a circular green traffic signal, and attempted to travel north through the intersection to BallenIsles Drive. As Williams was traveling through the intersection, a Nissan Altima entered the intersection traveling south, and made a left turn in front of William’s vehicle, causing her to stop advancing through the intersection to avoid a collision. After the Nissan had proceeded past Williams, Williams then started to proceed north through the intersection in accordance with F.S.S. 316.075 (1)(a)1. The vehicle driven by Linda Barson was traveling west on Northlake Blvd, in the outside lane, approaching a steady red traffic signal. The traffic signal then cycled to green, at which time Barson continued westbound and entered the intersection. The front end of Barson’s vehicle collided with the right front of William’s vehicle. This updated information, based upon new evidence, is still under investigation.

As per Florida Statutes, due to the continuing investigation of this incident, no additional information will be released at this time. To request a copy of the initial traffic crash report, please email the Palm Beach Gardens Office of the City Clerk at psnider@pbgfl.com. The surveillance video referenced in this press release is available at the link below.​

The police dept also has the video footage available from DropBox. The crash is at about 6:33.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhjp91zyd2p7nr3/6-9-17 Crash Surveillance Footage.mp4