Venus Williams accident, I don't understand the legality of this

[bcla]

My mom always did, when we were going on road trips.
Not all states allow you to turn right legally on a red light for example.

Every state in the US allows right turns on red unless otherwise posted. Some municipalities don't allow it unless posted otherwise - especially NYC. I remember the scene from Annie Hall where Woody Allen's character is saying something about not wanting to visit California. Something about the only benefit being that he can make a right turn on a red light.

In my state a right turn isn't allowed on a red arrow, but that's not the case in all states.

 

[wenrob]

I forgot to add that they've added blinking yellows for left turns here. (I will pull out on the green for a left) So you have your regular green, yellow, blinking yellow, red. A little bit into the green for oncoming traffic the left turn arrows will blink yellow. If you can find a clear opening you can go. This has really helped traffic and accident wise.

 

[Klayfish]

It's like that here too. But you know what? Let them lay on their horn or go around me. Unless I know I can clear the light I'm not entering the intersection no matter how green that light is. I'm not going to risk my life or the life of someone else so they can get somewhere two minutes faster.

Am I a horrible person for saying I'd be one of those honkers?

 

[sunshinehighway]

Am I a horrible person for saying I'd be one of those honkers?

Nope. I know people here like to pretend they are all perfect and always do everything 100% according to all rules and all that but obviously in real life, people pull into intersections waiting to turn. I can think of a bunch of lights that you'll be sitting at for quite a while if you don't, especially at certain times of day.

 

[bcla]

Nope. I know people here like to pretend they are all perfect and always do everything 100% according to all rules and all that but obviously in real life, people pull into intersections waiting to turn. I can think of a bunch of lights that you'll be sitting at for quite a while if you don't, especially at certain times of day.

It's legal in my state to pull into an intersection to make a turn while it's green, but not yellow. I've seen quite a few drivers who won't do so unless there's zero traffic in the opposite direction and have even seen a driver wait three complete cycles before making the turn.

https://patch.com/california/sanbru...waiting-for-oncoming-traffic-to-pass_2c7b8d8a

I was pretty sure I knew the answer to this one. I started thumbing through the California Vehicle Code and found answers… and more questions. I was forced to query the folks behind the curtain! I contacted the CHP Academy where they study this stuff like college professors. Here is the answer:

If a person is driving straight through an intersection (NOT TURNING) law requires a motorist to enter the intersection, only when there is enough room to completely traverse the intersection. For drivers making a left turn, this rule does not apply! If a driver faces a green light, they are authorized to enter the intersection and wait for clearance to complete their turn. HOWEVER, the driver is not allowed to enter the intersection for a left turn if they are facing a yellow light.​

Of course it's about reading the conditions. There may be the chance that pulling into the intersection may be when there doesn't appear to be a way to clear the intersection or you're making a guess as to whether or not there will be clearance to move in. Sometimes I've made the turn and just ducked into a parking space or maybe a shoulder. And there's nothing worse than the feeling of being stuck while drivers are honking at you and you can't really move.

 

[pryncess527]

I think the law is that you are not supposed to enter the intersection unless you can clear it. If cars are backed up into the intersection, you are supposed to stay back and not enter the intersection until you can drive all the way through, even if the light is green.

This scenario happens fairly often, especially in very congested areas. However, it is usually more of an annoyance and really causes gridlock. I

This scenario is my pet peeve. I can't tell you how often I have sat through my green light because someone from the cross direction was blocking the intersection so sure they'd make it through, but didn't, leaving the rest of us to burn a green light because of their poor planning.

Don't enter an intersection unless it's clear all the way through.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Am I a horrible person for saying I'd be one of those honkers?

No not at all. By the way, I'm truly sorry about my car stalling in front of you Mr or Mrs Horn person. I was just a bit flustered and turned the car off. You know, step on the gas, turn the car off. Totally similar in operation and a totally easy mistake we've all made I'm sure. It was pure coincidence I got it restarted just in time for me to make it through and you not to. It wasn't deliberate. Honest. By the way there was a comedian on the radio and we were all laughing at that. Not you. Honest.

HAHA no I've never done that but my mom sure did.

 

[sunshinehighway]

This scenario is my pet peeve. I can't tell you how often I have sat through my green light because someone from the cross direction was blocking the intersection so sure they'd make it through, but didn't, leaving the rest of us to burn a green light because of their poor planning.

Don't enter an intersection unless it's clear all the way through.

I've had that happen (usually with people going straight through the intersection not people turning) and do find it irritating. I think the thing is that each situation is different and you can't really just treat all like they are the same. I can think of set of lights down the street that you aren't getting through if you are turning and sit behind the white line waiting until it's totally clear. The line is set back a bit and the oncoming traffic comes from a bit of a curve so you really can't see if you'll have time move up from the white line and turn. Coming from the other direction, people are always getting stuck in the intersection (going straight) and blocking the traffic. It's a weird intersection and there's a lot of lights.

 

[katie01]

It's legal in my state to pull into an intersection to make a turn while it's green, but not yellow. I've seen quite a few drivers who won't do so unless there's zero traffic in the opposite direction and have even seen a driver wait three complete cycles before making the turn.

https://patch.com/california/sanbru...waiting-for-oncoming-traffic-to-pass_2c7b8d8a

I was pretty sure I knew the answer to this one. I started thumbing through the California Vehicle Code and found answers… and more questions. I was forced to query the folks behind the curtain! I contacted the CHP Academy where they study this stuff like college professors. Here is the answer:

If a person is driving straight through an intersection (NOT TURNING) law requires a motorist to enter the intersection, only when there is enough room to completely traverse the intersection. For drivers making a left turn, this rule does not apply! If a driver faces a green light, they are authorized to enter the intersection and wait for clearance to complete their turn. HOWEVER, the driver is not allowed to enter the intersection for a left turn if they are facing a yellow light.​

Of course it's about reading the conditions. There may be the chance that pulling into the intersection may be when there doesn't appear to be a way to clear the intersection or you're making a guess as to whether or not there will be clearance to move in. Sometimes I've made the turn and just ducked into a parking space or maybe a shoulder. And there's nothing worse than the feeling of being stuck while drivers are honking at you and you can't really move.

Thank you, this is very helpful clearing up the legality of pulling into the intersection while trying to go straight vs. for a left turn. What you said describes what I normally do, but I was getting concerned to read some people say that you should not pull into an intersection at all during green to wait to yield for a left turn. Like I said, the problem where I live is that a LOT of drivers in that uncoming traffic will run a red light, leaving me stranded in the middle of the intersection on a red too...if oncoming traffic wouldn't run the red, I could easily clear that left turn before it turns green for the traffic that is perpendicular to me, but this isn't how it always works out. I would think that technically, the oncoming traffic who ran the red light should be ticketed in that scenario, not me waiting in the middle as long as I entered the intersection when the light was green. But I suppose it could still depend on the state or the officer on the scene if there were an accident

 

[katie01]

I've had that happen (usually with people going straight through the intersection not people turning) and do find it irritating. I think the thing is that each situation is different and you can't really just treat all like they are the same. I can think of set of lights down the street that you aren't getting through if you are turning and sit behind the white line waiting until it's totally clear. The line is set back a bit and the oncoming traffic comes from a bit of a curve so you really can't see if you'll have time move up from the white line and turn. Coming from the other direction, people are always getting stuck in the intersection (going straight) and blocking the traffic. It's a weird intersection and there's a lot of lights.

I agree. Around here, you'll have 15 people waiting to turn left. The protected green arrow allows maybe four people max to get through, if you're lucky. If the next two people in line don't pull into the intersection to wait for a yielding left turn, you are going to have that left turn lane back up so far, so fast, it's not even funny

 

[AppleDumpling]

Around here they've installed cameras at many of the busiest intersections. You're allowed to go through a yellow light, but if you cross the line even a fraction of a second after it turns red, you'll get a ticket in the mail. Also, you must come to a complete stop before turning right on red (which has always been the law). Lots of people slow down and look, but roll through them if it's clear. Now I've gotten into the habit of counting to myself for a few seconds before I will turn right on red.

 

[mom2rtk]

Here in NJ, if you didn't proceed into the intersection at a green light, even if there was still a car in the intersection, drivers behind you would be laying on the horn! Folks go nuts when you stop for pedestrians, and try to drive around you. There are 30,000 people in my 3 mile town.

It's like that here too. But you know what? Let them lay on their horn or go around me. Unless I know I can clear the light I'm not entering the intersection no matter how green that light is. I'm not going to risk my life or the life of someone else so they can get somewhere two minutes faster.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "They were all honking a lot" won't be much of a defense.

 

[robinb]

I just saw the GMA video and Venus DID NOT TURN so all this talk about turning is moot. It appears that she was waiting for the traffic to clear in front of her so she could go straight and she got caught in the intersection. She then creeped forward (they said on the video @ 5MPH) to catch up with the traffic when she was t-boned.

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

 

[mom2rtk]

I just saw the GMA video and Venus DID NOT TURN so all this talk about turning is moot. It appears that she was waiting for the traffic to clear in front of her so she could go straight and she got caught in the intersection. She then creeped forward (they said on the video @ 5MPH) to catch up with the traffic when she was t-boned.

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

You want to confuse this conversation with FACTS??????

 

[sunshinehighway]

I just saw the GMA video and Venus DID NOT TURN so all this talk about turning is moot. It appears that she was waiting for the traffic to clear in front of her so she could go straight and she got caught in the intersection. She then creeped forward (they said on the video @ 5MPH) to catch up with the traffic when she was t-boned.

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

Oh. I assumed she was sitting there waiting to turn because it really doesn't make sense to me otherwise.
If she was sitting in traffic stuck in the intersection and going straight, how did the car other car not notice her and hit her? It seems like the other car must have been going pretty fast to not notice a line of backed up cars and at least one blocking the road.
I know insurance and traffic/accident things different greatly from state to state but I don't think she's necessarily considered totally at fault just because she was cited for being in the intersection.

 

[robinb]

Oh. I assumed she was sitting there waiting to turn because it really doesn't make sense to me otherwise.
If she was sitting in traffic stuck in the intersection and going straight, how did the car other car not notice her and got her? It seems like the other car must have been going pretty fast to not notice a line of backed up cars and at least one blocking the road.
I know insurance and traffic/accident things different greatly from state to state but I don't think she's necessarily considered totally at fault just because she was cited for being in the intersection.

Take a look at the condition of the car. The airbags deployed and the occupants of the Hyundai sustained serious injuries. I know that they had a little car that hit Venus' big SUV ... but still. They certainly didn't hit her from a starting up from stand-still at the light.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Does anyone else wonder how fast the other car had to go going to injure the driver so seriously and kill the passenger? I wonder if they were not really paying attention themselves. I find it curious that they waited until today to file their lawsuit, as if they didn't think they had a case until the police report said Venus was at fault today.

Yes, I wondered and yes, I agree, as I posted earlier, the other driver likely is also at fault for hitting Venus, even though the light was green.

It may be that the lawsuit wasn't filed until after the man's death. According to what I read, the accident occurred on 6/9 and he died this past weekend on 6/25.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Take a look at the condition of the car. The airbags deployed and the occupants of the Hyundai sustained serious injuries. I know that they had a little car that hit Venus' big SUV ... but still. They certainly didn't hit her from a starting up from stand-still at the light.

It looks like this whole story is fuzzy right now. There's reporting on what the police report supposedly says (I haven't seen the actual police report) and what the woman suing is saying in her lawsuit. Those two things don't match. It seems like the story is being sensationalized.

 

[wenrob]

Am I a horrible person for saying I'd be one of those honkers?

Not at all. Just sayin it won't get me out there if it's not safe to do so.

Nope. I know people here like to pretend they are all perfect and always do everything 100% according to all rules and all that but obviously in real life, people pull into intersections waiting to turn. I can think of a bunch of lights that you'll be sitting at for quite a while if you don't, especially at certain times of day.

The original topic is not about left turns (that I DO pull out for because that's what you're supposed to do) it's about going forward in backed up traffic when the intersection is not clear further blocking the intersection and possibly finding yourself stranded there or worse, causing an accident. I'm not perfect, I'm using common sense.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Not at all. Just sayin it won't get me out there if it's not safe to do so.


The original topic is not about left turns (that I DO pull out for because that's what you're supposed to do) it's about going forward in backed up traffic when the intersection is not clear further blocking the intersection and possibly finding yourself stranded there or worse, causing an accident. I'm not perfect, I'm using common sense.

Left turns came up within the first few posts. I really didn't see anyone who says they never pull into an intersection and wait differentiate between going straight or turning and really all I was trying to say is there is a difference.