VENT: Bad choices

[EMom]

Anyone who thinks it's OK to ignore a screaming kid in public is just plain stupid.

Anyone who thinks it's OK to remain at the show while their kid is screaming and crying and disrupting everyone around them is just plain stupid and inconsiderate of others.

Anyone who thinks that others should tolerate the kid's behavior *just because* is stupider than stupid because there is no way to justify bad behavior.

A parent should have an idea of what their kid can tolerate. If they don't know then they shouldn't pick a paying venue to find out.

Here is a newsflash to all the snowflake parents out there:

We don't want to hear your kid screaming their head off when we paid to see a show. If you can't control your kid, be considerate of others and take them out of there and calm them down. If you can't calm them down, then leave so others can enjoy the show in peace.

Use some common sense for goodness sakes.

On the one hand, that's not exactly the most tactful way to put it, is it? On the other hand, you can't really BE tactful with parents who think it's their God given right to ruin a special evening for everyone in earshot, can you? So I'd say you've hit the nail on the head.

Look, when I've paid good money to take my well-behaved, non-fit throwing DD to an event like this and some screaming kid proceeds to make it impossible to enjoy the evening, my sentiment is that you should remove your hellion from the area and let the rest of us continue to have a good time. We shouldn't have to "tune out" a screamer, especially if we've gone to the trouble to raise a non-screamer and/or have the good sense to not take our little screamers to an event such as this until they have been broken from the habit of pitching a fit and ruining everyone else's good time.

It's called plain old commom courtesy. Give it a whirl. Those around you will appreciate your efforts.

What about the family for whom a night out such as the one in question is a truly special event......something they can afford to do only once a year or every two years? I'm sure they're thrilled to hear a toddler screeeeeeeeeeeching while Oblivo-Mom continues to snap pics and have a good time. You want to teach your kid a lesson? Teach him that until he learns to behave, he won't be taken to special events and that if he's at such an event and proceeds to act like a howler monkey, he'll get a trip to the exciting world of the bathroom. Sure, it's not fun for YOU, but baby, that's YOUR kid, not ours. YOU deal with it. We're dealing with ours and they're not screaming. Time to break yours of the habit.

 

[AustinTink]

We shouldn't have to "tune out" a screamer, especially if we've gone to the trouble to raise a non-screamer and/or have the good sense to not take our little screamers to an event such as this until they have been broken from the habit of pitching a fit and ruining everyone else's good time.

This.

 

[Planogirl]

You take the kid out to the lobby and deal with it. You don't just sit there ignoring it while the child bothers others including other children. It doesn't matter where you are. I can't believe that some are advocating letting the kid just scream instead of actually trying to parent.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

Not giving in to tantrums is a good general rule. However, parents need to use their own discretion at times when giving in might be necessary out of respect for other people. Every situation can't be about teaching your child a lesson.

Example: We were at Disneyland when my kids were 10 and 6 and there was a Snow White stage show. Right after we sat down in the theater, my 10 year (who is mildly autistic) said he changed his mind and didn't want to sit through it. He wanted to ride the train instead (his favorite ride at DL). My DH and I told him we would ride the train after the show. After it started, he got increasingly restless and started whining about not wanting to see the show. I tried to calm him down, but he continued to escalate. We quickly decided to take him out to avoid disturbing the people around us.

Once we got out, we gave him a talking to about being quiet in theaters and that he can't always do what he wants. He's part of a family and needs to do what other people choose sometimes. Then he asked if we could go to the train. Did we take him? Absolutely not! That would have been a reward for his behavior in the theater. So, even though we "gave in" to the tantrum and left the theater, we didn't allow him to do what he wanted next.

As parents, we have to think through these situations and recognize that there are no hard and fast rules. Sometimes we need to do what's best at the time and save the "teachable moments" for later.

 

[hulagirl87]

Anyone who thinks it's OK to ignore a screaming kid in public is just plain stupid.

Anyone who thinks it's OK to remain at the show while their kid is screaming and crying and disrupting everyone around them is just plain stupid and inconsiderate of others.

Anyone who thinks that others should tolerate the kid's behavior *just because* is stupider than stupid because there is no way to justify bad behavior.

A parent should have an idea of what their kid can tolerate. If they don't know then they shouldn't pick a paying venue to find out.

Here is a newsflash to all the snowflake parents out there:

We don't want to hear your kid screaming their head off when we paid to see a show. If you can't control your kid, be considerate of others and take them out of there and calm them down. If you can't calm them down, then leave so others can enjoy the show in peace.

Use some common sense for goodness sakes.

you said this perfectly!

And on a side note, when did the library become a noisy place?!? I go every couple weeks to get books with DD and when we went the other day and it was like a free for all. I remember growing up that it was a quiet place and we had to whisper so I was trying to keep DD quiet (she's only one and I don't think she really knows what I'm talking about, but still... ) I don't even know why I bothered. The place was a madhouse. Kids running and screaming, climbing all over the chairs. I was so confused So if I was in a situation like the OP, and I was the parent whose child was the screamer, there is no way that I would have been sitting there through a whole show, no matter how much money I paid, as I would have been mortified that I was disrupting other people's experience. My responsibility as a parent is to take care of my child. What kind of job am I doing if I am just letting them sit there and scream?

 

[The Pink Cupcake]

Sorry your "teaching moment" doesn't trump the needs of 100 other paying patrons. And for the record I would hope my child's teachers would have more common sense than you are expressing here.

I agree.

I couldn't imagine having to listen to a screaming child during a PAID event because a mom feels she is teaching him a lesson.

Teach your children on your own time and on your own dime

 

[disneyjunkie]

On the one hand, that's not exactly the most tactful way to put it, is it? On the other hand, you can't really BE tactful with parents who think it's their God given right to ruin a special evening for everyone in earshot, can you? So I'd say you've hit the nail on the head.

Look, when I've paid good money to take my well-behaved, non-fit throwing DD to an event like this and some screaming kid proceeds to make it impossible to enjoy the evening, my sentiment is that you should remove your hellion from the area and let the rest of us continue to have a good time. We shouldn't have to "tune out" a screamer, especially if we've gone to the trouble to raise a non-screamer and/or have the good sense to not take our little screamers to an event such as this until they have been broken from the habit of pitching a fit and ruining everyone else's good time.

It's called plain old commom courtesy. Give it a whirl. Those around you will appreciate your efforts.

What about the family for whom a night out such as the one in question is a truly special event......something they can afford to do only once a year or every two years? I'm sure they're thrilled to hear a toddler screeeeeeeeeeeching while Oblivo-Mom continues to snap pics and have a good time. You want to teach your kid a lesson? Teach him that until he learns to behave, he won't be taken to special events and that if he's at such an event and proceeds to act like a howler monkey, he'll get a trip to the exciting world of the bathroom. Sure, it's not fun for YOU, but baby, that's YOUR kid, not ours. YOU deal with it. We're dealing with ours and they're not screaming. Time to break yours of the habit.

Oblivo-Mom

I love it and will use it.

 

[MM27]

Are you serious, IT"S a kids program with kids there they are going to be loud and crazy anyway.

I wouldn't for one second give into my child. If they are throwing a fit OP said they child wanted to leave, so by leaving you are giving in to the child and REWARDING them by giving in.

There is a huge difference between kids being excited and cheering and yelling and a child having a screaming tantrum. I don't want to listen to someone's child have a screaming fit for 5 minutes in the supermarket or for 30 minutes at something I had to pay for. Doesn't matter if it's a kids program. Those kids programs can get very pricey and nobody should have to pay to listen to that because a parent can't control their child. Take the kid into the lobby until they get their act together and calm down.

I would've gone to the usher and explained the situation. If they didn't do anything, I would've gone to the parent.

 

[frijolefrito]

I find that I hate other parents and their kids. It's so easy... if you have a crying kid GO AWAY! I have 4 kids myself and beleive me we've left everything you can think of due to crying kid.

 

[JLTraveling]

I agree with this completely. I don't have kids, but I've been in the child care field for almost 10 years and I never give in to tantrums because it teaches them that throwing a fit will give them what they want.

ETA: I would never take a small child to a show like that, at least until I was certain they could handle it

Well, I spent several years working with children with mental health disorders in residential facilities--much more likely to act out than the kids you deal with, I'd wager. I never had a choice to just let them scream it out, because they were hyper-sensitive to each others' moods. Start with one screaming child, and in less than five minutes I'd have 30 hysterical kids throwing full-blown tantrums all around me.

So what do you do? REMOVE the child from the group immediately and then administer the appropriate consequence (generally a time-out). These kids were prone to violence during outbursts, so it could get interesting when five or six counselors were all trying to find separate safe spaces for time-outs, but we made it work.

I was taught that you NEVER allow the tantrum to continue on-site. Let 'em scream, rant and rail...in a private place. If you're at a public event, the car works quite well. If you took public transportation or are parked far away, a bathroom stall or private corner outside the building works too. Then, once the tantrum's over, you either go back inside or go straight home. Leaving the event isn't a reward. Whatever the kid wants to do next is.

ETA: I don't agree that the solution is not to take young kids to events. How can they possibly learn appropriate behavior if they're never exposed to a situation where they get to see and experience it? IMO, it's much better to start taking them to things very young, as babies, and leave as soon as they get overly fussy. By the age of 2 or 3, they'll be extremely familiar with appropriate behavior and old enough to apply it.

 

[Christine]

ETA: I don't agree that the solution is not to take young kids to events. How can they possibly learn appropriate behavior if they're never exposed to a situation where they get to see and experience it? IMO, it's much better to start taking them to things very young, as babies, and leave as soon as they get overly fussy. By the age of 2 or 3, they'll be extremely familiar with appropriate behavior and old enough to apply it.

That doesn't always work with every child. I have two, who were both quite different. My oldest was the problem. I got her out places very early on. While other babies were resting in their strollers, she was sitting straight up and nosy. That lasted about 15 minutes. Then she wanted out and then she would scream. Taking her to the grocery store? Forget it. She was good for 30 minutes, tops. I went to all sorts of places, and I walked out when she got irritating. It wasn't until she was almost 4 years old that I was able to get her to sit through a movie. She was about 3.5 when we went to our first Disney on Ice. That was the magic age for her. There was no way I was going to spend $30-$50 a ticket when she was 2 years old to see how well she did. I knew my kid.

My second child was a dream. I was able to shop for hours with him, he slept the whole time. We were able to go see Blue's Clues at the National Theater when he was 2.5 and he was GOLD. We went to many Disney on Ice shows very early.

I do agree that you definitely have to get kids out and exposed to things but once you see that you've got a pistol who doesn't want to sit in one place after 15 minutes, I think things like shopping malls, expensive shows, and movies are out for awhile out of respect for the general public.

 

[MushyMushy]

Whoever thinks that removing the tantrum thrower from his current environment is rewarding bad behavior is wrong (unless you remove him and go buy him ice cream or other goodie). Removing the child sends a clear message that bad behavior will not be tolerated and will be dealt with quickly and consistently. (think a time out---just within earshot of what he is missing or just going home to bed)

The young mother missed a teaching moment.

Exactly! When you take a child out of the environment, you give him a chance to calm down and also teach him that his behavior wasn't appropriate there. I spent many an hour sitting in my car with a crying kid. How was that a reward for either one of us? I didn't whisk them off somewhere fun or where they wanted to be. We sat until they could compose themselves, then either went home or went back to finish shopping/eating or whatever we were doing.

It's not rocket science.

I find that I hate other parents and their kids. It's so easy... if you have a crying kid GO AWAY! I have 4 kids myself and beleive me we've left everything you can think of due to crying kid.

My son's girlfriend (also a "young" mother) has a tot who is prone to tantrums. I'm so impressed with her ability to stay calm and remove her from the situation. The tot doesn't see it as a reward -- their thought processes just aren't that sophisticated. Tantrums are a reaction to overstimulation, tiredness, etc. I fail to see how removing them makes them say, "Oh, next time we're in the middle of a movie, I'll just throw a fit so we have to leave."

 

[JLTraveling]

She was about 3.5 when we went to our first Disney on Ice. That was the magic age for her. There was no way I was going to spend $30-$50 a ticket when she was 2 years old to see how well she did. I knew my kid.

ITA, and I think I wasn't quite clear. There's no point in spending money for tickets if you know your kid won't sit through the event. I was thinking more along the lines of malls, restaurants (perhaps super-casual at first), just getting them used to the idea of being out in public, and gradually working toward "theater behavior." I just know that some parents go too far in the opposite direction.

When I was assistant director for a program that provided social services for children of newly immigrated migrant workers, our first-ever field trip was to a bowling alley. There were 12 kids aged 7 to 15. We had to leave within 15 minutes, because the children literally acted like animals--rolling themselves down the lanes, among other things! They had honestly never been exposed to appropriate behavior in public.

So we did a bunch of working and shaping and struggling, and by the end of the summer they were able to complete an all-day field trip to Kennedy Space Center, complete with some specially scheduled educational talks, with a bare minimum of disruption.

I think aware parents like yourself do know their kids and how to shape them. I just don't want parents to get the impression that if they do nothing, just keeping the kids at home till some magic age will automatically give them the skills necessary to behave in public.

 

[HOGFAN]

If my kids acted up not only would they be taken out but they knew their rearends out be tagged..and dont flame me for being a 'bad parent'..everyone has a different approached towards parenting...

 

[Jedana]

Long story ahead:
My nephew has two sons.

He came to our house in Vegas during a move to CA from SD (driving through). First time we had ever met his kids. The kids were 3 and 5 at the time. My son was 4.

We met at a grocery up the street and he followed us to the house (it was a bit of a maze of streets and easier this way). No sooner had they walked in the door of my house had the older one digging into a tray of cupcakes that were cooling on the counter and the younger screaming because my son told him he couldn't play on my computer (no one was allowed on it, we had a different one for the kids)--he threw his sippy cup at the monitor. Lucky for him he missed.

This went on for about an hour, and my nephew said nothing. I redirected and redirected and redirected, and finally put them both in time out. They calmed down a bit after that, but DS went up to his room and "locked" his door (shut it, and put his little chair in front of it). He said he didn't want them breaking his stuff.

My nephew wanted to do some shopping at the grocery (water, snacks, etc) and I had to get a few things. So, they followed me (I left DS at home with DH to guard his treasures ) to the store. In the store, they screamed and threw things into the cart and basically ran wild. The oldest had a meltdown when told he couldn't have Mountain Dew; the youngest was opening candy bars and eating them.

I was done with this, and picked the two of them up, told my nephew to finish his shopping--and to please not get any sweet sugary things for them because they didn't need it--and we would be in my car until they knocked it off. I had one under each arm and headed outside.

I put them in the cargo area of the SUV, rolled the front windows down and shut the doors; I sat in the front seat and put my iPod on. About 15 minutes later, up rolls a police car--guess they had gotten a call about kids screaming in a car, and came to check it out. I explained what had gone on and how I was done with this behavior--and I had only known these kids for about 4 hours! The officer checked on them (they were just about done kicking and screaming at this point), took my name and left.

Nephew comes out. I handed him his children and told him next time he comes to visit to either bring better behaved children or to not bring them at all. His kids need to behave poorly is his problem, the rest of the world does not need to deal with it.

There is a time and place for everything. But common courtesy should never never be forgotten.

 

[Talking Hands]

No way would I allow a child of mine to disrupt other people's enjoyment of a show of ANY TYPE. That's a lesson they need to learn.
For THIS I would have definitely gone for management. If kids cannot understand and cooperate with theater etiquette they should NOT be there. Broadway is NOT for children who cannot comply.

I completely agree with this. I have a year old grandson who is already attending an occasional concert where children are welcome. If he becomes fussy he is removed to an area where he cannot disturb others. When he quiets down he can go back. His parents are adamant about proper concert etiquette as mommy is a musician and daddy a stagehand. He is usually at the concert because mommy is one of the musicians and the sitter takes him since children are allowed. Also means Mommy can be with him between rehearsal and the actual concert.

 

[AustinTink]

Long story ahead:
My nephew has two sons.

He came to our house in Vegas during a move to CA from SD (driving through). First time we had ever met his kids. The kids were 3 and 5 at the time. My son was 4.

We met at a grocery up the street and he followed us to the house (it was a bit of a maze of streets and easier this way). No sooner had they walked in the door of my house had the older one digging into a tray of cupcakes that were cooling on the counter and the younger screaming because my son told him he couldn't play on my computer (no one was allowed on it, we had a different one for the kids)--he threw his sippy cup at the monitor. Lucky for him he missed.

This went on for about an hour, and my nephew said nothing. I redirected and redirected and redirected, and finally put them both in time out. They calmed down a bit after that, but DS went up to his room and "locked" his door (shut it, and put his little chair in front of it). He said he didn't want them breaking his stuff.

My nephew wanted to do some shopping at the grocery (water, snacks, etc) and I had to get a few things. So, they followed me (I left DS at home with DH to guard his treasures ) to the store. In the store, they screamed and threw things into the cart and basically ran wild. The oldest had a meltdown when told he couldn't have Mountain Dew; the youngest was opening candy bars and eating them.

I was done with this, and picked the two of them up, told my nephew to finish his shopping--and to please not get any sweet sugary things for them because they didn't need it--and we would be in my car until they knocked it off. I had one under each arm and headed outside.

I put them in the cargo area of the SUV, rolled the front windows down and shut the doors; I sat in the front seat and put my iPod on. About 15 minutes later, up rolls a police car--guess they had gotten a call about kids screaming in a car, and came to check it out. I explained what had gone on and how I was done with this behavior--and I had only known these kids for about 4 hours! The officer checked on them (they were just about done kicking and screaming at this point), took my name and left.

Nephew comes out. I handed him his children and told him next time he comes to visit to either bring better behaved children or to not bring them at all. His kids need to behave poorly is his problem, the rest of the world does not need to deal with it.

There is a time and place for everything. But common courtesy should never never be forgotten.

Dang.

 

[frijolefrito]

OMG! Parents... who think like me... JOY!

I have 2 views on taking your young kids out. My wife and I would fight over this until we were walking out of every other movie. I think it's okay to try and find out what kind of kid you have. Some kids can only be good at age appropriate places like chucke cheese. It's not something to fight it's something to work with.

Jedana:
"Nephew comes out. I handed him his children and told him next time he comes to visit to either bring better behaved children or to not bring them at all. His kids need to behave poorly is his problem, the rest of the world does not need to deal with it.

There is a time and place for everything. But common courtesy should never never be forgotten. "

Okay you and me can be BFF's.

 

[HannaBelle]

Originally Posted by Ciao Mickey
Anyone who thinks it's OK to ignore a screaming kid in public is just plain stupid.

Anyone who thinks it's OK to remain at the show while their kid is screaming and crying and disrupting everyone around them is just plain stupid and inconsiderate of others.

Anyone who thinks that others should tolerate the kid's behavior *just because* is stupider than stupid because there is no way to justify bad behavior.

A parent should have an idea of what their kid can tolerate. If they don't know then they shouldn't pick a paying venue to find out.

Here is a newsflash to all the snowflake parents out there:

We don't want to hear your kid screaming their head off when we paid to see a show. If you can't control your kid, be considerate of others and take them out of there and calm them down. If you can't calm them down, then leave so others can enjoy the show in peace.

Use some common sense for goodness sakes.

 

[Debbie7452]

It is NOT rewarding to a child to be removed from a situation when they are behaving badly for whatever reason. I have 4 kids and the youngest has been more difficult to deal with. For example: He can't behave in church. Over his lifetime, I have had to take him out of church many, many times. I take him outside and he stands against a brick wall in a boring hallway. He can't stand this. He would much rather go back in and behave than stand outside. Gradually, the kid has gotten better at behaving. We haven't been outside in a while. He is 5, so we have been working on this a long time. You have to be consistant.