VDH Opening

[take36]

Last time I went to Disneyland we took a layover over flying into LAX in rush hour although next time we probably will just deal with LAX. LAX just seemed too overwhelming flying with a baby and all the stuff a baby requires.

When was this? I just did the trip a week ago with a baby/toddler and I went from plane to luggage to uber pick up (10 min walk and also a shuttle) in under 30 minutes. Usually its 15min (without luggage) to maybe an hour with luggage max with delays. LAX also has more lounges if that is available to you.

But yes its LA, there are plenty of airports and transportation options, I fly into LGA, LAX, BUR regularly and it is no more of a hassle then most other places (barring small regional airports). Uber/taxi options are aplenty and I did car service before which is 150-250 (200 quoted for my trip 2 weeks ago for a "luxury" regular car) including tip depending on what you need which I find comparable to MCO to WDW (I use Mr. Hinds, last quote was 200 but this was last year and included a grocery stop).

 

[DonMacGregor]

I’m planning the first Disneyland trip for this summer. Sounds like Uber in the morning from LAX to Disneyland on a weekday is a good idea? Is Uber from Disneyland to LAX on Saturday around noon also okay?

Weekday from LAX in an Uber would be fine. Maybe try mid-morning if you can, but it’s probably a 15-20 minute difference, max. Heading back to LAX midday on a Saturday is zero traffic, even solo.

 

[SusieQ93]

When was this? I just did the trip a week ago with a baby/toddler and I went from plane to luggage to uber pick up (10 min walk and also a shuttle) in under 30 minutes. Usually its 15min (without luggage) to maybe an hour with luggage max with delays. LAX also has more lounges if that is available to you.

But yes its LA, there are plenty of airports and transportation options, I fly into LGA, LAX, BUR regularly and it is no more of a hassle then most other places (barring small regional airports). Uber/taxi options are aplenty and I did car service before which is 150-250 (200 quoted for my trip 2 weeks ago for a "luxury" regular car) including tip depending on what you need which I find comparable to MCO to WDW (I use Mr. Hinds, last quote was 200 but this was last year and included a grocery stop).

Did you install a car seat in your Uber? Did that take you very long?

I’ve only flown in/out of lax 3 times in recent history. Two times it was only out of LAX and that was no problem. In 2019, we flew into LAX and I recall having to schlep all our stuff on a crowded bus to get over to the Uber area. I didn’t want to do that with a baby in stroller and 4 suitcases. Yes, I also probably packed more than I needed - it was our first vacation not staying with family with our son. Do you not need to do the bus thing anymore?

 

[take36]

Did you install a car seat in your Uber? Did that take you very long?

I’ve only flown in/out of lax 3 times in recent history. Two times it was only out of LAX and that was no problem. In 2019, we flew into LAX and I recall having to schlep all our stuff on a crowded bus to get over to the Uber area. I didn’t want to do that with a baby in stroller and 4 suitcases. Yes, I also probably packed more than I needed - it was our first vacation not staying with family with our son. Do you not need to do the bus thing anymore?

Car seat install was around maybe 2-3 mintues? I guess I do it enough where I am pretty good at it, maybe practice and time yourself at home lol. I have also gotten Ubers with car seats and they are "good enough," passed my basic check of being in good shape, clean, leveled and rigid.

They still have the bus but now there is a well directed walkway that took 10 mins with the toddler walking (there is a big street to cross which I carried my child). Just looking into the shuttle while I was there it seemed maybe 3/4 full (in terms of seats but I was walking when it came by so its just an estimate).

I landed at maybe 10am and was in my uber and on my way to DL by 1030ish and arrived by maybe 1130ish as there was traffic, I have gotten there in 30ish mintues before. I was in my room (checked in had a small issue taken care of) before 12 for sure as I was wondering if I could still make some brunch menus if I hustled to the parks.

Packing wise for a 1 week vacation (3 nights at DL) we had 1 checked in luggage and car seat, regular back pack for me and my spouse as personal item, one big and one small duffle for carry on, and my toddler had his own backpack for his coloring stuff and snacks. Technically we were entitled to one more carry on. No stroller this time as I am trying to get my kid to walk more but it is probably faster getting around with a stroller then going at a toddler's pace and carrying him when he is tired or spooked by large crowds.

Its important to have your backpacks/duffels and suitcase "fit" each other via stacking on top of each other and having the suitcase pass through for carry on. i was able to stack my suitcase and both duffels, carry my own backpack and hold the car seat while my spouse had her backpack and held my kid's hands. I am of course always on the lookout for better bags to increase my efficiency, so please chime in everyone and anyone!

 

[SusieQ93]

Car seat install was around maybe 2-3 mintues? I guess I do it enough where I am pretty good at it, maybe practice and time yourself at home lol. I have also gotten Ubers with car seats and they are "good enough," passed my basic check of being in good shape, clean, leveled and rigid.

They still have the bus but now there is a well directed walkway that took 10 mins with the toddler walking (there is a big street to cross which I carried my child). Just looking into the shuttle while I was there it seemed maybe 3/4 full (in terms of seats but I was walking when it came by so its just an estimate).

I landed at maybe 10am and was in my uber and on my way to DL by 1030ish and arrived by maybe 1130ish. I was in my room (checked in had a small issue taken care of) before 12 for sure as I was wondering if I could still make some brunch menus if I hustled to the parks.

Packing wise for a 1 week vacation (3 nights at DL) we had 1 checked in luggage and car seat, regular back pack for me and my spouse as personal item, one big and one small duffle for carry on, and my toddler had his own backpack for his coloring stuff and snacks. No stroller this time for me as I am trying to get my kid to walk more but it is probably faster getting around with a stroller then going at a toddler's pace.

Its important to have your backpacks/duffels and suitcase "fit" each other via stacking on top of each other and having the suitcase pass through for carry on. i was able to stack my suitcase and both duffels, carry my own backpack and hold the car seat while my spouse had her backpack and held my kid's hands. I am of course always on the lookout for better bags to increase my efficiency, so please chime in everyone and anyone!

So you were much more efficient than me, lol. I made lots of rookie packing mistakes. Next time we fly, my son will be 2, so we’re getting the WAYB car seat which I think will help because it’s a backpack when not in use. Also will be doing Amazon Prime delivery for a lot of things. It also just gets easier as they get a little bigger and need less things. But I’m impressed no stroller, although my son made me carry him pretty much the whole time so, we could’ve skipped the stroller

 

[DonMacGregor]

So you were much more efficient than me, lol. I made lots of rookie packing mistakes. Next time we fly, my son will be 2, so we’re getting the WAYB car seat which I think will help because it’s a backpack when not in use. Also will be doing Amazon Prime delivery for a lot of things. It also just gets easier as they get a little bigger and need less things. But I’m impressed no stroller, although my son made me carry him pretty much the whole time so, we could’ve skipped the stroller

Keep in mind also, that in another year or so, the Peoplemover system at LAX will be finished, and you will be able to hop on the train at any terminal and go directly to both of the brand new rideshare and rental car centers. No busses, no crossing streets.

 

[Brian Noble]

IMO, Never fly into LAX unless you are saving A TON.!!! (Like saving way more than the extra transportation cost, the headache alone is worth hundreds to me)

There is one other reason, namely...

Or it's the only non-stop option to the area.

that. We live in a hub city for Delta and even then we sometimes do not have non-stop flights to the other LA-area airports.

I heard many people think that renters will heavily purchase VDH to only rent.

Interesting, but probably a bad idea. My benchmark for "is this investment a good idea" is the after-tax long-term rate of return of a low-fee SP500 index fund. The long-term pre-tax rate is 10%. That is taxed at long-term capital gains; for middle-income earners that rate is 15%, so the post-tax return is 8.5%.

Rental income is taxed as ordinary income. For a middle-earner, that rate is either 24% or 32%. Let's use the optimistic case of 24%. To get to 8.5% post-tax on rental income, the pre-tax rate needs to be about 11.2%. Suppose they get the points for $220 net after incentives (a big guess). An 11.2% return on that is $24.64. But, that's after dues of $9.06. So, to beat the expected return of an SP500 index fund, you'd need to gross $33.70 per point.

That's going to be tight. Two nights mid-October in a Standard View studio at rack rate is $1,745 after tax. That stay is 40 points. A DVC renter would pay ToT of An equivalent rate for a DVC rental would not include ToT of $109.54, so the break-even point for a DVC renter is about $1635. If the rental is less than that, the rental is cheaper than booking direct. That's about $40.87/point, and a DVC rental that out-performs the SP500 would offer only an 17.5% discount to the renter. It might be hard to get a renter to bite on the terms of a DVC rental to save $290.

And, if Disney discounts that room by even 15%, you're going to be under the SP500 return line quickly. Plus, renting is work.

I'd rather just invest in the index fund.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'd rather just invest in the index fund.

Which is why you keep your work money and play money separate...

 

[SusieQ93]

Keep in mind also, that in another year or so, the Peoplemover system at LAX will be finished, and you will be able to hop on the train at any terminal and go directly to both of the brand new rideshare and rental car centers. No busses, no crossing streets.

Oh that’s great to know, thanks!

 

[elenex]

Which is why you keep your work money and play money separate...

I thought that was so my wife wouldn't find it...

 

[take36]

So you were much more efficient than me, lol. I made lots of rookie packing mistakes. Next time we fly, my son will be 2, so we’re getting the WAYB car seat which I think will help because it’s a backpack when not in use. Also will be doing Amazon Prime delivery for a lot of things. It also just gets easier as they get a little bigger and need less things. But I’m impressed no stroller, although my son made me carry him pretty much the whole time so, we could’ve skipped the stroller

Get those compressible packing cubes, get the largest backpacks you can comfortably wear and get away with for your airline, and spent more for light weight suitcases is my best tips. I use Monos suitcases as they are lite and I can jam most duffel and backpack straps onto it as a pass through, the con is its quite pricey. Backpacks we have a Disney backpack, loungefly pack and a military grade backpack from another past life of mine that does most of the heavy lifting.

My kid is a year older then yours so it was probably a little bit easier as he is potty trained and all that. Last 2 trips to Disney I had a stroller (WDW trip I had to buy a stroller at disney because my stroller was broken on the plane) but he wanted to either walk or be carried that the stroller was just an excuse to carry more souvenirs!

I made a CVS run on the first evening which was actually a longer trek then I thought, I would probably not recommend it as it took about 1 hour total (20 mins there and 20 mins back, and 20 mins to shop). Uber might be worth it to do. After all just saving on one drink at disney is like 3 dollar savings! I use to do Amazon as well but always ended up with too much stuff and threw so much of it away! I just got water, milk, and juice so for 3 days I spent about 30 bucks on outside drinks. Snacks I either brought lite snacks also used for the flight and just loaded up on Disney snacks! I did buy some overpriced sodas when the cravings hit at the 5 dollar cost but I figure all the savings on other drinks I was still coming out ahead.

 

[Brian Noble]

Which is why you keep your work money and play money separate...

Yep.

On the other hand, this does make a decent case for owning. Based on the analysis that folks have offered (purchase price amortized at 3%), that same room for an owner is about $21 per point in the first year, all-in, or $840. That's a discount of about 48% off rack. Pretty good!

 

[take36]

There is one other reason, namely...

that. We live in a hub city for Delta and even then we sometimes do not have non-stop flights to the other LA-area airports.


Interesting, but probably a bad idea. My benchmark for "is this investment a good idea" is the after-tax long-term rate of return of a low-fee SP500 index fund. The long-term pre-tax rate is 10%. That is taxed at long-term capital gains; for middle-income earners that rate is 15%, so the post-tax return is 8.5%.

Rental income is taxed as ordinary income. For a middle-earner, that rate is either 24% or 32%. Let's use the optimistic case of 24%. To get to 8.5% post-tax on rental income, the pre-tax rate needs to be about 11.2%. Suppose they get the points for $220 net after incentives (a big guess). An 11.2% return on that is $24.64. But, that's after dues of $9.06. So, to beat the expected return of an SP500 index fund, you'd need to gross $33.70 per point.

That's going to be tight. Two nights mid-October in a Standard View studio at rack rate is $1,745 after tax. That stay is 40 points. A DVC renter would pay ToT of An equivalent rate for a DVC rental would not include ToT of $109.54, so the break-even point for a DVC renter is about $1635. If the rental is less than that, the rental is cheaper than booking direct. That's about $40.87/point, and a DVC rental that out-performs the SP500 would offer only an 17.5% discount to the renter. It might be hard to get a renter to bite on the terms of a DVC rental to save $290.

And, if Disney discounts that room by even 15%, you're going to be under the SP500 return line quickly. Plus, renting is work.

I'd rather just invest in the index fund.

Does this math work for DVC savings vs cash rooms? As in math/investing wise, VDH simply isn't worth it?

 

[Brian Noble]

And, if Disney discounts that room by even 15%, you're going to be under the SP500 return line quickly.

I will also note that if you wanted to get fancy, you could also depreciate your purchase cost, which would further reduce your cost basis, increasing your rental returns, and converting some of that to long-term capital gains if/when you sell.

Maybe that makes the difference, I don't know. I'm a set-and-forget kind of guy.

 

[DonMacGregor]

IMO, Never fly into LAX unless you are saving A TON.!!! (Like saving way more than the extra transportation cost, the headache alone is worth hundreds to me)

For me, it's what I call the "money value of my time". As someone living in So Cal, I'll actually spend the extra time flying into and out of LAX if it means not having a layover in PHX, SLC, DEN, or wherever. An extra 2 hours, getting on and off another plane, navigating gates in a second airport, the added chance for a delay, etc., all make the 40 or so minutes I might have to take getting to LAX (assuming I'm alone and driving and not using carpool/HOV lanes) worth it. It's also MUCH less tiring to spend a few more minutes in the car versus a mid-trip layover. You also enjoy far more frequency, which means arriving earlier or departing later, getting more "time" on your vacation. Plus, about 90% of the time, any other airport around here (Long Beach, Santa Ana, Burbank, Ontario) are all more expensive than LAX and have infinitely fewer nonstops.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I thought that was so my wife wouldn't find it...

That's the "special" fund. Yours if she doesn't find it, and her "birthday/anniversary gift fund" if she does.

 

[Brian Noble]

As in math/investing wise, VDH simply isn't worth it?

No, I think owning makes sense. You might do better by investing the purchase price/annual dues and using the proceeds to rent from an owner. But renting is more work than owning, and not having to do that work has value.

Plus, as someone on TUG reminded me: "This is a TOY. You are buying a TOY. Treat it like a TOY."

So, not an investment, but a nice toy.

 

[Sandisw]

I’ve seen a lot of talk about paying for parking - when the fact is we still aren’t sure if that’s the case as the verbiage just says “may”…

But I’ll play along. Any thoughts about paying for parking will depend on the room type booked or the season of your travel?

I didn’t look at the chart because we wouldn’t be going there..so I didn’t realize until yesterday that it said “may”.

My guess is that is why..lol.

 

[I Run Long]

I’ve seen a lot of talk about paying for parking - when the fact is we still aren’t sure if that’s the case as the verbiage just says “may”…

But I’ll play along. Any thoughts about paying for parking will depend on the room type booked or the season of your travel?

I assumed that they were just covering their bases. You book on points, free parking. You book with cash, you pay for parking.

 

[nalabear]

I’m on a cruise right now and the guide is trying to talk me into buying direct points elsewhere to use at VDH. My initial reaction is it’s probably because he can’t sell me VDH on the ship, but some of his points kinda make some sense. I personally have all the points I need at wdw and just want some home advantage for west coast. I went through all sorts of emotions since the info drop on VDH and I think I’m back to being on board. I really just want 4 days a year for my bday and oogie boogie. I think I’ll eventually get over paying TOT and parking.

And that's why Disney chose to do this - Disney believes most buyers will be fine with the setup.

Ironically; Disney just did away with all resort parking fees in WDW -- weird.