Vaccinations

[hucifer]

But my pediatrician is, as are the thousands upon thousands of medical, scientific and epidemiological professionals who recommend vaccinations. That is good enough for me.

I think people are becoming somewhat disillusioned with the medical field, and that is why they are turning to other sources for additional information. They know a lot about what prescriptions go with what symptoms, but little about disease prevention. I even had a doctor ask me once, "What are refined grains?" I am not kidding.

So folks get a little cautious and start researching health issues on their own...and are concerned when their opinions start to differ from their doctor's.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Seriously, are you talking to me?

Brandie

I was addressing "Nikel" and making an observation based on on a number of things that have been said here....

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I consider myself pretty damn smart, but I am not a doctor, I am not a scientist, and I am not an epidemiologist. I could look at epidemiological study on vaccinations all day long and not be able to make heads or tails of it. I am neither trained nor qualified to interptet the information.

But my pediatrician is, as are the thousands upon thousands of medical, scientific and epidemiological professionals who recommend vaccinations. That is good enough for me.

First of all, not all of them DO recommend vaccinations. There are epidemiologists who know the facts of infectious diseases and their spread as well as anyone else and STILL don't vaccinate their own children. I also know other health care professionals who do not vaccinate (and again, anecdotally, all of their children are extremely healthy). Pediatricians are NOT as well-educated about vaccines as people think, either. They learn about them in a general way (mechanisms, etc.), but they do NOT have the latest research delivered to them on a platter in medical school so they can make a fully informed professional decision about them. There is no debate about their efficacy or safety. It is simply presented as the way it's done, and why, and let's move on to the next topic. This reminds me of how people think their doctors know ALL about their specific medications. Truth is, they don't. When something new comes out, doctors hear about it from the pharmaceutical companies selling it and MAYBE a little blurb in a medical journal (which they may or may not read and is by no means comprehensive). Independent studies are great, but by no means the final word on anything, even when readily available. Doctors very often defer to pharmacists, who make thousands of calls to physicians' offices each day to confirm/change questionable scripts. My point is that doctors aren't the end-all, be-all of vaccine information.

My son's pediatrician is an extremely intelligent man who has been in practice as long as I've been alive. He has admitted to me that I do more research about vaccines than he does, and he is PRO-vaccine, so he's certainly not trying to kiss up to me when he says that. He tells me my son is an interesting patient because he is unvaxed yet totally healthy, which he would not have expected...and he enjoys watching him grow and change. I can't help but think maybe patients like my son will give him pause and get him to think more critically about a few issues surrounding vaccinations or the schedule.

 

[Minniemouse07]

That is easy to say, given that the 'herd' immunizations have made it possible for these diseases to be pretty much a thing of the past. Herd immunity isn't a theory, it's a fact, when it comes to communicable diseases.

Those millions of children AND the millions who are not being vaccinated due to 'objections' are making us vulnerable to diseases. It's only a matter of time.

I think that the point is that there are WAY more children that aren't vaccinated due to lack of access to the vaccinations than there are where their parents have actively chosen not to vaccinate.

So another take home message, until every child who has parents that WANT their child vaccinated (or don't actively choose not to vax) are vaccinated... don't worry about the even smaller minority of children that are not vaxed by choice.

Did I get that right pan?

 

[meandtheguys2]

I just don't think parents should be able to have it both ways. If you don't want to vaccinate then your child shouldn't be allowed in a group setting for extended periods - i.e. school, community sports and art programs etc.

Art programs...? How long would be appropriate, would you say?

Mine aren't vaccinated, due to a familial history of catastrophic reactions on both my husband's and my side of the family (niece, first cousins). (1 death, 2 deaf.) This was by recommendation of a genetics specialist, and is supported by all of the medical personelle which were consulted. So, I guess they are just SOL in your book. Perhaps a little colony for them would be appropriate.

 

[mickeyboat]

I think people are becoming somewhat disillusioned with the medical field, and that is why they are turning to other sources for additional information. They know a lot about what prescriptions go with what symptoms, but little about disease prevention. I even had a doctor ask me once, "What are refined grains?" I am not kidding.

So folks get a little cautious and start researching health issues on their own...and are concerned when their opinions start to differ from their doctor's.

I can agree with you there. We all have to make a concerted effort to be the #1 person in charge of our health care. We have to ask questions, we have to do research on our own. Anyone who blindly follows the advice of their medical professional is a fool.

But I also know that as a lay person, there are limitations to what I am capable of understanding. And at some point, when my concerns are answered as completely as I can expect them to be, I need to follow my doctor's advice. And when the subject is protection from a life-threatening illness, I an darn well going to take my doctor's advice seriously.

Denae

 

[poohandwendy]

I think that the point is that there are WAY more children that aren't vaccinated due to lack of access to the vaccinations than there are where their parents have actively chosen not to vaccinate.

So another take home message, until every child who has parents that WANT their child vaccinated (or don't actively choose not to vax) are vaccinated... don't worry about the even smaller minority of children that are not vaxed by choice.

Did I get that right pan?

The way it comes about is irrelevant, the result is the same...more and more people unprotected means more and more vulnerability for everyone.

 

[KariC]

Actually, some of these vaccines are very new on the market (and none of them hundreds of years) so forgive me if I want to actually research what you are injecting my child with. Last night I came across the fact that the DTap lists one of the potential adverse reactions as SIDS . Obviously, I need to look further into that one. Rotovirus may not be needed because I will, hopefully, be breastfeeding. I want to be able to weigh the risks vs. benefits of each one and do what I feel comfortable with. Sorry, but you telling me "this isn't some radical procedure" just doesn't cut it . I'm still in the early stages of research, which is what I why I'm looking for help.

Kim....this is a bit off topic.....but, now that Brandie has joined the
'convo".....she is a great source on breastfeeding, practically a consultant . So is Transparent...she's a lactation consultant. I'm often dis-ing one-handed (right now), since giving birth. Also check out the la leche league forums (even now) for a lot of great tips.

back to the debate.... (that bev. is decaf)

 

[hucifer]

I find it appalling that any thread about vaccinations on the DISBoards (or elsewhere, for that matter) always devolves into people posting with bad tempers.

Now we just need to throw in a little mug-sharing and pool-hopping thoughts out there and see what else might happen.

It's bound to happen, people are passionate about their ideas. But there are still folks on this thread who are willing to share opinions from both sides in a civil manner.

Sorry OP...you said you didn't want this to be a debate, didn't you?

 

[Nikel]

I find it appalling that any thread about vaccinations on the DISBoards (or elsewhere, for that matter) always devolves into people posting with bad tempers.

I've been in this thread for 2 pages and am already ticked off at people being ugly to me.

Think about that... We're no longer being friendly, we're no longer listening or sharing, we're putting people on ignore and dismissing them as idiots.

What point is there in this thread? To just irritate the crud out of each other by just practicing our ugly responses?

Some people believe one thing, some people believe something else. Same as politics. We each cling to our "facts" and denounce the other side's facts.

I know, same old, same old. Sorry to interrupt the poster bashing.

Brandie

Clearly you misunderstood me and continue to misunderstand me. Again, I apologize for completely unintentional snark.

I NEVER EVER said you were an idiot. You could be the most intelligent person ever, but the fact is, that I DON'T KNOW YOU. That's all I was saying and implying. I'm also not not denouncing your facts. Again, I have no way of knowing your qualifications to give your facts. That's it. The only point I was making. The only "fact" I am clinging to is that my dd did have a bad reaction. You are free to not believe me as you wish, as I too am just a random message board poster.

 

[mickeyboat]

Pediatricians are NOT as well-educated about vaccines as people think, either. They learn about them in a general way (mechanisms, etc.), but they do NOT have the latest research delivered to them on a platter in medical school so they can make a fully informed professional decision about them. There is no debate about their efficacy or safety. It is simply presented as the way it's done, and why, and let's move on to the next topic. ... My point is that doctors aren't the end-all, be-all of vaccine information.

Maybe I have just had a better experience with my pediatrician than most. I questioned her at length about the chicken pox vaccine, and she refered me to the long-term studies which were done in Japan on the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine, which I think reviewed on my own (not that I consider that any kind of comprehensive review by any means). I am confident that she is up to date on most of the latest vaccine-related research.

There are definitely some bad apples out there!

Denae

 

[KikiFan]

I consider myself pretty damn smart, but I am not a doctor, I am not a scientist, and I am not an epidemiologist. I could look at epidemiological study on vaccinations all day long and not be able to make heads or tails of it. I am neither trained nor qualified to interptet the information.

But my pediatrician is, as are the thousands upon thousands of medical, scientific and epidemiological professionals who recommend vaccinations. That is good enough for me.

Several years ago my daughter became very sick with a terrible cough. She would cough until she either passed out or threw up. Our Dr, an allergy/asthma specialist at Children's Medical <a very respected children's facility> began prescribing more meds right and left.

I discovered that one of the lesser known side effects of Advair is that horrible cough. Within 48 hours of taking her off the medicine, the cough was gone. My daughter spent three month in agony, pumped full of meds she didn't need, when all she needed was a simple fix.

This Dr prescribes Advair a dozen times a day. How could he not know that coughing was one of the side effects?

Frankly I think any parent that blindly accepts what their Dr tells them is really dropping the ball when it comes to parenting.

When my daughter was born I didn't really know enough about the vaccines and just followed the set schedule. But there really wasn't any reason to do it that way since she didn't even start daycare till she was 4. If I was to have another child right now, I'd probably do selective vaccination. The Dr that I have now, really encourages waiting till children are a little older and spreading them out. That seems like a more reasonable compromise.

 

[LadyShiva]

Clearly you misunderstood me and continue to misunderstand me. Again, I apologize for completely unintentional snark.

I NEVER EVER said you were an idiot. You could be the most intelligent person ever, but the fact is, that I DON'T KNOW YOU. That's all I was saying and implying. I'm also not not denouncing your facts. Again, I have no way of knowing your qualifications to give your facts. That's it. The only point I was making. The only "fact" I am clinging to is that my dd did have a bad reaction. You are free to not believe me as you wish, as I too am just a random message board poster.

I think the big deal for me is you're assuming I was going to "tell" you. I was actually going to pass on a link to a website that does an explanation of how vaccines work, showing immune response, etc. It's good for breastfeeding moms to see to understand how breastmilk provides protection, but yet kiddoes need to have their own immune systems challenged via their own shots. If you weren't actually interested, then I wasn't going to go through the work of finding the link in my Favorites (let's just say it would be a pain to find in there... ).

Oh, and I have a loooooong way until I can become IBCLC. Transparant is the one who is certified (or did she say she let it lapse--can't remember). "Certification" means passing a grueling exam, and over 2500 supervised hours doing consultation with nursing dyads.

Brandie

 

[mickeyboat]

Several years ago my daughter became very sick with a terrible cough. She would cough until she either passed out or threw up. Our Dr, an allergy/asthma specialist at Children's Medical <a very respected children's facility> began prescribing more meds right and left.

I discovered that one of the lesser known side effects of Advair is that horrible cough. Within 48 hours of taking her off the medicine, the cough was gone. My daughter spent three month in agony, pumped full of meds she didn't need, when all she needed was a simple fix.

This Dr prescribes Advair a dozen times a day. How could he not know that coughing was one of the side effects?

Frankly I think any parent that blindly excepts what their Dr tells them is really dropping the ball when it comes to parenting.

When my daughter was born I didn't really know enough about the vaccines and just followed the set schedule. But there really wasn't any reason to do it that way since she didn't even start daycare till she was 4. If I was to have another child right now, I'd probably do selective vaccination. The Dr that I have now, really encourages waiting till children are a little older and spreading them out. That seems like a more reasonable compromise.

I hear you. See post #166.

 

[KariC]

Maybe I have just had a better experience with my pediatrician than most. I questioned her at length about the chicken pox vaccine, and she refered me to the long-term studies which were done in Japan on the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine, which I think reviewed on my own (not that I consider that any kind of comprehensive review by any means). I am confident that she is up to date on most of the latest vaccine-related research.

There are definitely some bad apples out there!

Denae

Sounds like there are.....I am thankful for the two we've had! Both are agressive, into being proactive, and listen to me. A few substitute peds we've had, arent such good listeners to mom. Both are pro-vaccination, one got our ins. co. to pay for the twins monthly synagis shots, and this one Does research, etc, and we're currently doing a vaccine study (y'all can thank anderson in a few years for being a guinea pig, and helping w/ dvelopment of a better protecting vaccine...no side effects, here).

 

[KariC]

I think the big deal for me is you're assuming I was going to "tell" you. I was actually going to pass on a link to a website that does an explanation of how vaccines work, showing immune response, etc. It's good for breastfeeding moms to see to understand how breastmilk provides protection, but yet kiddoes need to have their own immune systems challenged via their own shots. If you weren't actually interested, then I wasn't going to go through the work of finding the link in my Favorites (let's just say it would be a pain to find in there... ).

Oh, and I have a loooooong way until I can become IBCLC. Transparant is the one who is certified (or did she say she let it lapse--can't remember). "Certification" means passing a grueling exam, and over 2500 supervised hours doing consultation with nursing dyads.

Brandie

i'd like the link.....if you have time.

i think you're right, she did let it lapse due to time?

 

[mickeyboat]

Sounds like there are.....I am thankful for the two we've had! Both are agressive, into being proactive, and listen to me. A few substitute peds we've had, arent such good listeners to mom. Both are pro-vaccination, one got our ins. co. to pay for the twins monthly synagis shots, and this one Does research, etc, and we're currently doing a vaccine study (y'all can thank anderson in a few years for being a guinea pig, and helping w/ dvelopment of a better protecting vaccine...no side effects, here).

What is synagis for? I have seen you talk about it on other threads. Is it an RSV vaccine? DD8 was a premie (34 weeks) and they never recommended any monthly shots to us.

 

[3jsmommy]

First, I'm very sorry about your sister.

I'm not sure I buy into the theory that the "Big Pharm" tries to coverup the possible harmful side effects of drugs. Everytime I get a prescription from my pharmacy it comes with several pages describing every possible side effect, from the common to not so common.

I don't believe for one second that drug companies are perfect, but I can see how they can be put in a bind. You can test a medication on 5 million people and have it work perfectly and flawlessly, and then a few people will come along and have some severe or fatal adverse reaction to it. Does that mean that it should be pulled off the market or be deemed unsafe for everyone else? I struggle with that idea.

I attended congressional hearings where "Big Pharma was accused by congressmen for those cover ups. N.Y. attorney general fined the drug companies millions of dollars for doing just that.
Drug companies pay ALOT of $ for advertising.....try to find a magazine or t.v. network that does not have such sponsors. It is very naive to think otherwise...not to sound rude because I had the same type of mindset before I experienced it first hand.
check these out to start....http://www.newstarget.com/011764.html
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050602pharmaceuticalindustrycoverup
There are many more....

 

[LadyShiva]

And for the record, DH and DD have life-threatening food allergies, and I know about vaccines having trace contents of allergens (eggs, etc). I completely agree about not killing your kid now in order to not have them contract something later that would kill them. *wry grin*

I have been to India and I got evacuted with cholera on a public flight. I got shot up with a ton of vaccinations before going, but chose to not do the rabies series because A) I didn't have time before my trip and B) I could also choose not to pet any animals.

I get the heebie jeebies thinking of all the people who now travel internationally (like me) and what they come in contact with. I understand and agree with having reservations about vaccinations, but I disagree with the rationale that there is so little incidence of XYZ, I don't need to protect myself or my kid from it. Unless you plan on always staying home or never going to Sam's Club, WDW, or any place where a stranger would be, don't think you're safe from getting sick. ANYBODY from anywhere can get on a plane nowadays and sit next to someone who is actually very sick.

Brandie

 

[Pooh's Pixie]

Failing to vaccinate children out of fear is not something I advocate because it would be a shame for a perfectly healthy child to die of a preventable illness.

I agree with you. I haven't read all the posts, but I have worked in epidemiology and science. Autism happens to occur at the time when vaccines are given...it is a correlation and NOT a causation. Never been proven. I believe the fear of vaccination goes to people being generally bad risk assessors: autism from vaccines has never been proven, but we fear it because we 1) need to blame something for autism; 2) don't understand it, and we always fear what we don't understand; 3) have a much higher risk of having a bad illness from one of the unvaccinated against diseases than getting autism. It is the same way we fear guns more than swimming pools, when many, many more kids drown in swimming pools each year than get accidentally shot...

Vaccinations protect not only the individual but also the community; Talk to someone who has lived through the polio fears and what that did to people's lives and see whether you are willing to go back to those days...

I support people''s rights to choose, but it worries me for our future...