Using DDP knowing you won't get value?

[eeyoresmom]

What do you mean you'd have to avoid 1 point restaurants on DxDDP???

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Sheesh... outside of my previous comments...

Who the heck wants to keep track of all these credits for an entire family??
Sounds like a full time job.

Not for me...

MG

 

[Farro]

Apparently they don't. Go back and re-read this thread. They don't care if they lose money. They like the "convenience" of being restricted to a certain number of points to be used on a certain kind of resturant items regardless of cost. I wouldn't call these people the "top 1% or so of guests who actually do know what they're doing."

So I read all these arguments in good fun, because let's face it, we are discussing a trip to Disney World, not how to approach Iran. It's a lazy Saturday morning I'm reading the boards before starting the day.

I realize you think I am fooled/tricked by the psychological manipulations of Disney, but I can't understand why you care? Why does it bother you and a couple others that I buy the dining plan for my reasons and don't care if I am saving money or not. It's my money to do with as I please. If we didn't have the money, we wouldn't spend it. I'm not telling anyone to get it or not, it's their own decision. It's really none of your concern, unless...Dad, is that you?

9 nights, Polynesian, Halloween Party, dining plan, Food/Wine, park hoppers, Memory Maker, this entire trip is an exercise in excess - which doing every once in a while makes life worth living in our opinion. (our fish tank would also annoy you I think, I picked it out solely on aesthetic rather than practical value. And I love it, gives me great enjoyment, so I consider it worth it. Want to see a picture?....)

As for not knowing what I'm doing...I know what I'm doing when I plan trips anywhere we go. As evidenced when we come home happy. (now I have really screwed up some trips, but live and learn )

Have a great Saturday, I'm trying a new recipe tonight, so maybe we'll be going out to dinner.

 

[Faldred]

What do you mean you'd have to avoid 1 point restaurants on DxDDP???

Yeah, that makes no sense at all. 1 credit restaurants are almost always more "cost effective" than 2 credit restaurants, regardless of regular or deluxe. The only reasons signature dining is generally recommended for DxDP users are that 1) you can, especially with the appetizers, and not be wasting money, and 2) 3 TS meals a day is an awful lot, both in food and time spent.

 

[Nancyg56]

So I read all these arguments in good fun, because let's face it, we are discussing a trip to Disney World, not how to approach Iran. It's a lazy Saturday morning I'm reading the boards before starting the day.

I realize you think I am fooled/tricked by the psychological manipulations of Disney, but I can't understand why you care? Why does it bother you and a couple others that I buy the dining plan for my reasons and don't care if I am saving money or not. It's my money to do with as I please. If we didn't have the money, we wouldn't spend it. I'm not telling anyone to get it or not, it's their own decision. It's really none of your concern, unless...Dad, is that you?

9 nights, Polynesian, Halloween Party, dining plan, Food/Wine, park hoppers, Memory Maker, this entire trip is an exercise in excess - which doing every once in a while makes life worth living in our opinion. (our fish tank would also annoy you I think, I picked it out solely on aesthetic rather than practical value. And I love it, gives me great enjoyment, so I consider it worth it. Want to see a picture?....)

As for not knowing what I'm doing...I know what I'm doing when I plan trips anywhere we go. As evidenced when we come home happy. (now I have really screwed up some trips, but live and learn )

Have a great Saturday, I'm trying a new recipe tonight, so maybe we'll be going out to dinner.

You articulated so well what I have struggled to say. Some trips we economize, others we go all out. One thing we do not skimp on is food and dining experiences because my family uses dining time to spend time together, and to just revisit the day. At home I cook, clean, shop, and do laundry. Not on vacation. We buy dining plans, stay Deluxe and book CL, and buy hoppers on some trips, and find that it is money well spent. I do not purchase what we are not going to use, but do not begrudge the money we do spend.

What I cannot understand is the mindset that some folks have in regards to "the right way" to do Disney. Whether it is how to tour, where to stay, or dining plan or no, we kow what works for us, and do not need a stranger to tell us we have not done our own research, or that because we decided not to indulge questioning, we are ignorant.

Sheesh... outside of my previous comments...

Who the heck wants to keep track of all these credits for an entire family??
Sounds like a full time job.

Not for me...

MG

It's not as hard as it might seem. I track them for nine people and all I do is plan our adrs ahead. We have made changes while we are there, but the remaining credits always show up on the receipt. I honestly don't think any of this is the hard work some are suggesting. For those who like to plan their park days and restaurant choices ahead of the trip it's just one more step to see if they should use a plan.

 

[MrInfinity]

Apparently they don't. Go back and re-read this thread. They don't care if they lose money. They like the "convenience" of being restricted to a certain number of points to be used on a certain kind of resturant items regardless of cost. I wouldn't call these people the "top 1% or so of guests who actually do know what they're doing."

You keep going back to this silly concept of restriction. No one is restricted by being on the DDP. DDP is one more (flexible) option available to those who don't rule it out. So technically, by having fewer options, you are more restricted than someone who would consider the DDP. One on the DDP can order the same things as you... you just have one less option than them when it comes to paying for the bulk of your expenses.

it's just simple arithmetic, right? What if I told you I saved $1,000 paying OOP over the DDP? Do you believe me?

Honestly I don't care. I do my math for me, not you. I also help other people who ask genuinely out here because I like to do that.
If you saved $1000, that's great. Maybe you brought in sandwiches. It can be done.
But I don't indulge you for the same reason everyone else doesn't. You ignore what you want and stick to your point. So even if I pointed out my savings, you'd just conclude something absurd like "I'm the exception" or "I picked those places". See, you don't approach anyone's ideas as equal to yours so nobody really wants to share them w you.

I believe you. Please show your work since others will benefit. Why are you keeping it a secret?

Ok, tell you what. If you're interested, go to the search function above, and search me out. I've discussed dining many times. Go back thru posts from 2010-2013. You won't. But you just want me to spell out something for you to argue.

If you get the DxDDP, it's even WORSE. You'd have to avoid 1 point restaurants and always order appetizers and desserts at every TS location. I assumed you knew that based on your spreadsheet.

Why would you assume this, when I explicitly said the DDP benefited us, and several times I said I don't use the DxDP, and I even found it novel that someone above found a way it worked for them? You're just way out in left field here.

I guess this conversation has kind of died as there wasn't much in this post I'm replying to to even reply to. You simply restated to show you the math, and several people have already showed you the math, but when they do, you just write it off. So we move on. Right? See you in the next thread? Or do you have something else constructive here to prove why any DDP purchase is irrational? ROFL.

 

[Ratzo]

You keep going back to this silly concept of restriction. No one is restricted by being on the DDP. DDP is one more (flexible) option available to those who don't rule it out. So technically, by having fewer options, you are more restricted than someone who would consider the DDP. One on the DDP can order the same things as you... you just have one less option than them when it comes to paying for the bulk of your expenses.

If you buy the DDP with the hope of paying less, you are restricted in what you can purchase to achieve that goal. If you are able to abide by all those restrictions, you MIGHT save a LITTLE money. Both those statements are true. Anything else has to do with illusions of convenience and peace of mind, so you can spin that any way you like. Just don't claim it's based on facts or rational thought.

Honestly I don't care. I do my math for me, not you. I also help other people who ask genuinely out here because I like to do that.
If you saved $1000, that's great. Maybe you brought in sandwiches. It can be done. But I don't indulge you for the same reason everyone else doesn't. You ignore what you want and stick to your point. So even if I pointed out my savings, you'd just conclude something absurd like "I'm the exception" or "I picked those places". See, you don't approach anyone's ideas as equal to yours so nobody really wants to share them w you.

I can only conclude from your response that you either didn't calculate anything or you did and you know darn well you're fudging numbers that will be obvious. It's pretty telling how little evidence of savings have been provided.

I guess this conversation has kind of died as there wasn't much in this post I'm replying to to even reply to. You simply restated to show you the math, and several people have already showed you the math, but when they do, you just write it off. So we move on. Right? See you in the next thread? Or do you have something else constructive here to prove why any DDP purchase is irrational? ROFL.

I only remember one person having the guts to show their work in detail. I didn't check all their numbers, but they were honest enough to provide the caveat that the savings depended on the fact they they were going to purchase the refillable mugs for everyone in their party anyway even if they didn't get the dining plan (double pinky swear). The "value" of the mugs was a little over $60 and the "savings" were a little over $30. If what they said was true about the mugs, then they definitely saved 3-4 sawbucks on the DDP. Good for them. It's up to anyone else reading this thread to decide for themselves whether they think that deal is a good one.

 

[Ratzo]

I realize you think I am fooled/tricked by the psychological manipulations of Disney, but I can't understand why you care? Why does it bother you and a couple others that I buy the dining plan for my reasons and don't care if I am saving money or not. It's my money to do with as I please. If we didn't have the money, we wouldn't spend it. I'm not telling anyone to get it or not, it's their own decision. It's really none of your concern, unless...Dad, is that you?

Please don't get the wrong impression. It's your money. Put it into a big pile and light it on fire if that's what you desire. I don't care. However, people come to this board for advice. The default assumption is that the dining plan is a perk and therefore must be cheaper. It used to be a long time ago...

Ever hear the anecdote about boiling a frog in a pot? The DDP is like that. It started out as a way to get people to stay at Disney all-day and not venture out to competitors' parks. Every minute Disney keeps you on Disney's property increases revenue for them. The dining plans were a good deal. You got to stay at a Disney resort with free transportation to and from the airport and discounted dining with tax and gratuity included. (Remember that?) The discounted dining offset the more expensive lodging costs. It was super effective! It became so popular, Disney did the logical thing: raised the price and took away perks...but gradually. It happened so gradually that people didn't realize what happened until it was too late. What's worse, the idea that the DDP is a universal good is ingrained in the so-called "top 1% Disney experts'" minds. Once a human makes up their mind, it's very difficult to get them to change it. If you think I'm making any of that up, don't take my word for it. Watch this attorney explain something that seems very counter-intuitive even to many other lawyers. The only way to avoid bias is to rely on concrete numbers, not feelings or assurances. That's why I ask for them. The dining plan is a business transaction between you and a large corporation. Treat it as such.

 

[bumbershoot]

Gift cards are not an option.

I used the dining calculator and it comes out just a little behind. So that doesn't bother me so much.

I guess what I am saying is, who has used the dining plan without obsessively trying to optimize it? Going to the most expensive places, getting the most expensive item. Doing character lunch/dinner instead of breakfast. Etc.

As others have said that's a different question than your first.

You seem to be buying the plan and then just using it to get what you get without working to make it work financially for you. That's not something I would do. I know how we eat at Disney. We had a lot of experience at Disneyland to find that out before hitting wdw. Our way of eating doesn't work with the dining plan. And I see very little convenience in it. I read of others feeling it's so convenient and it's like they are speaking a different language.

Because I would probably not buy a refillable mug.

I would buy it and have, twice. For coffee. Dh doesn't drink enough brewed coffee to make the cost work it and ds drinks nothing the mug includes. But for me oh yeah, it works.

I feel it's the right moment to quote my own post!

Except that no one has insulted anyone. Someone has asked specific questions repeatedly and isn't getting many responses.

Actually, I have chosen not to humor you. I cannot speak for anyone else.You seem fixated on this and for some reason you feel the need to "be right". The problem with that attitude is that it chases off people who would normally want to share tactics, hints, or their own reasoning for whatever their chooses are.

Ratzo was asking you questions. I'm not sure how ratzo caused such offense while being curious about your dining math.

Not once have you asked me the ages of our group, how many folks we travel with, how we like to dine, or how we break

But ratzo has indeed asked you for your math on how you saved, which would naturally include that stuff! So really the question that you've stated you aren't going to answer was asking the questions you now want him to ask. Confusing.

Not quite sure why the DDP tends to illicit such a divisive response to be honest

There are those who naturally eat in such a way that the plan makes sense. That's awesome. There are those who create a meal plan that helps the plan make sense. If that works without feeling sick the whole time then that's awesome. There are those who actively lose money or who end up using it willy nilly and I guess if they are happy that's awesome but I'm not sure they should give an unqualified "the ddp is great" response. Then there are those who end up (not *plan to* but *end up* doing it) with 40 rice krispie treats to bring home to make sure they spent it all. And that sort of thing is where I tilt my head like a confused puppy. Is there a cheaper snack to make for yourself at home? I could make those using vegan marshmallows without hfcs, with organic krispie cereal and really good butter (or with Earth Balance as a vegan friend does) (so that my family could eat them) for cheaper than what Disney charges. Use hfcs&gelatin marshmallows and regular butter and generic krispie cereal (as wdw no doubt does) and it's beyond cheap. How does that make the plan a deal?

So you get those of us who are confused about that last one and have questions about all but the first, and then those who are in those categories don't seem to like being asked questions about it. And then they perceive division when it's mainly just confusion.

Even the convenience factor is hard. I don't see how it's more convenient to pay for credits for a product than it is tonoay for the product. I don't see how it's ok for a husband to see that it's all paid for and that makes it ok for him when he knows the cost of the plan and he can see the costs of the food and can do the math. I could not separate the parts of my mind like that and it mystifies me that some can.

But no doubt someone will be offended that I can't figure out how that works psychologically.

Sometimes we pay more for convenience and we understand that. I pay $4+ then add on tax for a 2 fl oz travel sized bottle for my contact solution. I pay $0.97 plus tax for a travel sized bottle of shampoo. I understand that I'm paying more for the convencience of the small bottle size that is travel friendly.

Pay $2 for a 100ml container and fill it with the shampoo of your choice and use that same container for years and then there's no convenience fee. Plus it's more shampoo. Isn't contact lens solution a medical liquid and you can bring full sized bottles?

It's not wrong to want the convenience factor of the DDP but as long as you know that's really the main reason of getting it then you won't need to concern yourself so much with the cost comparison aspect.

Totally.

Fifth assumption, is that I've ever compromised on a meal. Who does this?

Many. Read this thread if people saying that they would or their spouses or parents would do exactly that without the plan.

And I think you were taking ratzo's post too personally rather than as general as I read it.

Point is, you just can't generalize. The Ratzo Plan might be better for 2/3 of guests. But then it would be worse for 1/3 of guests. So why sell it to everyone? Why not ask the questions first, then make a recommendation?

He has been asking questions that for the most part are getting refusals to answer.

And I believe the post you replied to said "a majority", which would go along with your 2/3 vs 1/3.

You don't pick the plan and then choose your restaurants based on that. You seem to have it backwards.

And now we're back to the question basically asked in the OP's second post on this thread. Asking us if we do that.

What you should do is take that same amount of money. Put it on to disney gift cards -still paid off ahead- use that as your "dining plan". We found the dining plan to be too much food and it became rather confusing when we were trying to order a few snacks in paris -- we ended up using a QS credit because it was too confusing to figure out what each person was ordering. We now do the gift card route. You can buy disney gift cards from target using the target red card and get 5% off (I think you still can do that). There is a little savings! This allows us to order what we want. If we just want a selection of apps and a salad -- we can do that. I rarely drink soda but because i had the plan i did.

If you know it isn't a good deal then why would you give Disney free money? You already spend so much for a vacation there so save a little where you can. The gift card route works and if you have some left over then use that for souvenirs.

Ayep.

What do you mean you'd have to avoid 1 point restaurants on DxDDP???

Because if you use them at one credit restaurants you've devastated a lot of the financial value of the deluxe plan.

Honestly I don't care. I do my math for me, not you. I also help other people who ask genuinely out here because I like to do that.

You and Nancy decided that ratzo isn't asking genuinely. I'm mystified. Ratzo asked multiple questions about how people have made it work and I don't know why that has been so suspiciously received.

 

[eeyoresmom]

Because if you use them at one credit restaurants you've devastated a lot of the financial value of the deluxe plan.

Please explain. A deluxe credit, assuming NO value for the refillable mug and $4 snack credits is valued around $30. I'm getting a beverage, appetizer, entree and dessert at Tuttu Italia for that $30 credit. Other 1 credit ADR's planned are 'Ohana, Raglan Road and Whispering Canyon Cafe. Which of these meals am I losing money on?

 

[cdh]

If anyone really wonders why we buy the dining plan, and isn't just looking to tell me how foolish we are for buying the plan, I'll explain. When we booked our first trip to Disney I had no idea of what I was doing. There were so many choices. Why was a club room at the Contemporary as much as a treehouse villa at Saratoga Springs? Which was nicer? Which would result in a better trip for our family? Where should we spend our days? Which rides were just right for our little girl? Which ones would scare her? Did we need park hopper tickets? What about waterpark tickets? Then, came what I considered to be an easy choice, dining plan or no dining plan?

I had read enough threads on disboards to realize that we wanted the princess experience. So, for the first day, I scheduled an early breakfast at Chef Mickey's, a mid-morning makeover at the BBB, a late lunch at Akershus, and a 9pm dinner at CRT. It was my daughter's fourth birthday. Based upon the schedule of the first day I decided that the deluxe dining plan would fit our needs. I was trying to figure out what we might spend on the trip and knowing the cost of our room, tickets, and dining was beneficial for us. Almost every meal that we had on the trip was a table service meal. Several were character meals. However, I will confess that I did waste one table service credit at the pool snack bar. The servers at each restaurant encouraged us to try a appetizer and dessert because we had already paid for those items. So, at each meal, we ordered those items and tried a bite or two of each. It felt like we saved money on dining but I never actually did the math. Either way, it was nice to know, before we left our home that our vacation was paid in full.

For people who are new to Disney dining, I believe that the plan seems beneficial because the meals that you need to schedule 180 days in advance are usually quite expensive, at around $50 per person. If the deluxe dining plan costs $103 per person, per day and you have already scheduled a character breakfast (at around $38 per person) for 8am and a dinner at BOG (at around $50 per person) it's a safe assumption that sometime between noon and 3pm you will be hungry enough to buy another meal or snack that will make up the $15 difference.

With each additional trip to Disney we have made some changes. I don't like breakfast at Disney World. So, now we stay at Club Level and snack on something small each morning. I schedule lunch at around 11:30am. We have a snack at around 3pm and dinner around 7pm. I make two separate resort reservations. One for five nights with deluxe dining and one for one night room only. That saves us $309. It gives us 45 table service credits. It isn't hard to keep up with the number of credits remaining because we eat together. Each of us has 15 meals for the week and it's easy to figure out how many we have used and how many are remaining. That may not be the case for families with teenagers who eat separately from their parents. We tend to eat the more expensive meals, not because we are forcing ourselves to choose expensive options, but because we like steak. We enjoy California Grill and Le Cellier and we order appetizers and desserts with those meals. So, the deluxe plan works for us. It's excessive but it's Disney World. I'm more concerned about the $15 to $20 balloons on Main Street than on whether or not we come out ahead on our dining expenses. But, that's just the way that we do Disney. If others do things differently then I don't think that their choices are foolish, they're just different choices than we make for our family.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Pay $2 for a 100ml container and fill it with the shampoo of your choice and use that same container for years and then there's no convenience fee. Plus it's more shampoo. Isn't contact lens solution a medical liquid and you can bring full sized bottles?

You're right about the contact solution=medical liquid. I guess at this time I don't feel like dealing with the potential hassle with the TSA agents. I totally get what you're saying though with both things

 

[Farro]

Nobody wants to see my fish tank?

 

[senadler]

You and Nancy decided that ratzo isn't asking genuinely. I'm mystified. Ratzo asked multiple questions about how people have made it work and I don't know why that has been so suspiciously received.

Ratzo has been very clear about anyone who is saving on the dining plan is either purposely misleading people or doing the math wrong. Ratzo has pointed to my honest details about only saving money on the first half of the trip using the dining plan because we do get the refillable mugs. That does not change the fact all three of us will indeed get the mugs, but whatever. What Ratzo has never mentioned was my post regarding the second half of our trip when we will save over $500 using the deluxe plan. Clearly there is an agenda to prove that the dining plan will never save anyone money.

 

[quandrea]

Hang on a sec...and I'm being serious... You load a prepaid credit card with the EXACT amount of the DDP plus tax. I know you can use it for non-dining, but let's say you judiciously use it just for dining and snacks only. It's "worry-free" and gives "peace of mind" since the dining is still prepaid. Remember, the DDP isn't all you can eat/use it as many times as you like. You still have a fixed number of TS/QS/snacks, so there's still tracking and planning to be done. You can end up paying out of pocket for things not covered and lose things you already paid for (like snacks and mug refills) on the DDP.

Here's what I propose: Plan your restaurants and meals as if you were going to do the DDP, but don't buy the DDP. Buy the Ratzo DDP instead. I'll bet the majority of times this is done, you'll have money left over on my plan with less compromises.

I agree. Just back yesterday. We spent $1447.83 on food. Period. Thirteen nights, three Disney adults and two kids. We ate everything we wanted to, enjoyed desserts, appetisers, no compromises.

The dining plan--WITHOUT TIPS ADDED--would have cost $3255.59 for the thirteen nights.

No way convenience is worth 1807.76.
Paying on my magic band and then paying off my credit card when the statement comes in is perfectly convenient. And I've saved nearly two grand.

 

[Farro]

Guess what? I can't tell you it's worth it, and you can't tell me it's not. (my worth isn't measuring in a monetary sense)

I've solved the argument!

 

[Farro]

Please don't get the wrong impression. It's your money. Put it into a big pile and light it on fire if that's what you desire. I don't care. However, people come to this board for advice. The default assumption is that the dining plan is a perk and therefore must be cheaper. It used to be a long time ago...

Ever hear the anecdote about boiling a frog in a pot? The DDP is like that. It started out as a way to get people to stay at Disney all-day and not venture out to competitors' parks. Every minute Disney keeps you on Disney's property increases revenue for them. The dining plans were a good deal. You got to stay at a Disney resort with free transportation to and from the airport and discounted dining with tax and gratuity included. (Remember that?) The discounted dining offset the more expensive lodging costs. It was super effective! It became so popular, Disney did the logical thing: raised the price and took away perks...but gradually. It happened so gradually that people didn't realize what happened until it was too late. What's worse, the idea that the DDP is a universal good is ingrained in the so-called "top 1% Disney experts'" minds. Once a human makes up their mind, it's very difficult to get them to change it. If you think I'm making any of that up, don't take my word for it. Watch this attorney explain something that seems very counter-intuitive even to many other lawyers. The only way to avoid bias is to rely on concrete numbers, not feelings or assurances. That's why I ask for them. The dining plan is a business transaction between you and a large corporation. Treat it as such.

I understand what you are saying. As a reasonable person, I realize I may be wasting money. But, I'm okay with that sometimes as I've explained previously. And I certainly am not going to tell anyone else to get the dining plan for the reasons we choose to purchase it.

I will say I'm quite confident going during Food/Wine will alleviate the problem of leftover snack credits!

 

[quandrea]

It boggles my mind that people will willingly spend more money on something than they need to. Would you go into a grocery store and fork over two hundred dollars if the bill was $150? Would you pay $300 for a $39.85 pair of pant? Why pay more for food than you need to?

 

[eeyoresmom]

Please explain. A deluxe credit, assuming NO value for the refillable mug and $4 snack credits is valued around $30. I'm getting a beverage, appetizer, entree and dessert at Tuttu Italia for that $30 credit. Other 1 credit ADR's planned are 'Ohana, Raglan Road and Whispering Canyon Cafe. Which of these meals am I losing money on?

So I've given my math. At least 2 posters here have stated the dxddp credits are even worse value. All I hear is crickets......

 

[Farro]

It boggles my mind that people will willingly spend more money on something than they need to. Would you go into a grocery store and fork over two hundred dollars if the bill was $150? Would you pay $300 for a $39.85 pair of pant? Why pay more for food than you need to?

If I'm causing your mind boggling, I've already responded numerous times in this thread about it.

If after you read my replies your mind is still boggled, I'm afraid I won't be able to help you. Perhaps a drink would be in order.

I can't find anymore ways to say what I've already said.

Off to find a thread discussing how I'm wasting money staying at a Deluxe!