Using DDP knowing you won't get value?

[robinb]

What facts? i have no intent of splitting anything, hence the confusion. Clearly, she thought I was someone else. I still want to know if you are spotting me if I run out on your plan?? As I said, without that insurance, it simply doesn't work for me.

Yes, I'm sorry. I was confused over multiple eeyores on the thread . You are not the eeyore who is "working" the system to share 2 DxDDPs between 8 people.

 

[eeyoresmom]

"working the system" or gulp.....saving money???? Sharing is allowed with the ddp.

 

[robinb]

"working the system" or gulp.....saving money???? Sharing is allowed with the ddp.

Or is the previous "non-sharing" rule simply no longer enforced? I think that Disney allows more credits to be used than people in the room as a courtesy to make it easier for families with multiple rooms on the DDP. NOT to have family and friends band together and purchase one DDP between multiple rooms. Believe me, if a lot of guests "save money" by working the system's sharing loophole Disney will catch on that they are losing money and put the kibosh on the whole thing.

 

[eeyoresmom]

Possibly. In the meantime it is allowed and I am taking advantage of the savings. I may even add dining plans to the other rooms, I haven't decided yet.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Who has used the DDP knowing that you were unlikely to come out ahead?

I have added the plan to a coming reservation knowing that I doubt I will get full-value. Primary driver was the cost certainty of paying for the largest expense before you land in Orlando and not having to worry about costs once on the ground.

*Haven't read all the responses yet*

I'm in the camp of the way you worded it you already know you're getting the DDP regardless of the monetary value to your specific family. Sometimes we pay more for convenience and we understand that. I pay $4+ then add on tax for a 2 fl oz travel sized bottle for my contact solution. I pay $0.97 plus tax for a travel sized bottle of shampoo. I understand that I'm paying more for the convencience of the small bottle size that is travel friendly.

If your decision hinges on not worrying about paying, except for tip which isn't included on most meals on the DDP, for your meals then it won't matter the actual cost comparison. However it is becomes complicated if you are looking at it more of a cost standpoint.

I personally would go to the Disney website and review menus for the places you want to go to. Those menus won't include tax or tip but will give you an idea of the price per plate. I would go in it not caring about the price so to speak first but rather what you would actually want to order. Then you can have more of an idea if you would come out ahead or break even if that is your concern. There is also the thread http://www.disboards.com/threads/buffet-character-shows-aycte-pricing.3108466/ so you know more up to date current costs of the buffets, character shows and aycte places/meals. Apologies if that was already mentioned.

It's not wrong to want the convenience factor of the DDP but as long as you know that's really the main reason of getting it then you won't need to concern yourself so much with the cost comparison aspect.

 

[Nancyg56]

Or is the previous "non-sharing" rule simply no longer enforced? I think that Disney allows more credits to be used than people in the room as a courtesy to make it easier for families with multiple rooms on the DDP. NOT to have family and friends band together and purchase one DDP between multiple rooms. Believe me, if a lot of guests "save money" by working the system's sharing loophole Disney will catch on that they are losing money and put the kibosh on the whole thing.

The language that prohibits shareing has been removed. THe language that states children must order from teh children's menu remains, although this is seldom enforced. I think that DIsney backpedaled in regards to sharing credits because they really do want to sell their dining plans. I dont think it is simply a matter of locking in the money for meals, but that it is more complicated.

I believe that Disney wants to provide incentive for guests to commit to onsite, and the all inclusive feel of a DDP helps. The variables that can occur by including the DDP in packages have been discussed, adn I think that DIsney knows losing credits, or for some, too much time dining is an issue so they loosened the language so folks are not as uneasy buying the packages.

Once a guest locks into a package they may stop looking at the individual costs of every component. The tiered prices of tickets comes to mind.

 

[MrInfinity]

Presenting...the "Ratso Disney Dining Plan!"

Hehe. So I may not agree w your argument, nor your dismissal of the DDP as something nobody should get... but this was still funny. I actually thought you were going to end it w offering a gift card that you'd charge ppl the $65 DDP price then self-fund it. But your punch line was the debit card.

Unfortunately that doesn't really work. Because people will consider the DDP a way to make things all inclusive. But people won't just buy a prepaid gift card and start loading it. Really you could use a prepaid gift card for everything in life, why limit to Disney? People just don't do that. Also the prepaid gift/debit card doesn't insulate one from the expensive nature of some entrees at menu places or the expensive character meals. Paying for those things OOP (whether it be cash, credit, gift or debit card) you will always have price influencing you to moderate your eating.

DH and I stayed in October on the DDxP and rented DVC points for one night. Here is my breakdown. For our family of 2 DDxP works.

That's cool... I could never make the DxDP work, but always liked the DDP. I could see how on short trips like this with some expensive meals the DxDP can pay off fast.

 

[smiths02]

The language that prohibits shareing has been removed. THe language that states children must order from teh children's menu remains, although this is seldom enforced. I think that DIsney backpedaled in regards to sharing credits because they really do want to sell their dining plans. I dont think it is simply a matter of locking in the money for meals, but that it is more complicated.

I believe that Disney wants to provide incentive for guests to commit to onsite, and the all inclusive feel of a DDP helps. The variables that can occur by including the DDP in packages have been discussed, adn I think that DIsney knows losing credits, or for some, too much time dining is an issue so they loosened the language so folks are not as uneasy buying the packages.

Once a guest locks into a package they may stop looking at the individual costs of every component. The tiered prices of tickets comes to mind.

They haven't loosened it so much that you can avoid buying the same plan for everyone in the room for every night, though.
I'm guessing the people who share credits with people not in their room is a rather small percentage.

 

[Faldred]

They haven't loosened it so much that you can avoid buying the same plan for everyone in the room for every night, though.
I'm guessing the people who share credits with people not in their room is a rather small percentage.

Personally, if they continue to non-enforce it (or make it officially acceptable), I'm liable to consider getting connecting rooms in a Value resort for the next family trip (family of 5, and all three kids are now over 9), preferably with a free dining discount, and put 2 people in one room upgrading to DxDP and the other three in the other room staying with QSDP, and just share all of the credits (6 Dx, 6 CS, 10 snack per night) five ways. I'd have to run the math to be sure, but on the surface it looks like it'd work out great.

 

[sharonabe]

I'm guessing the people who share credits with people not in their room is a rather small percentage.

I think your guess is spot on correct. The percentage of WDW guests who even know this is a possibility is probably less than 1%. Within that 1% is an even smaller percentage who can actually make it work to their advantage financially.

 

[tori.bh3]

I am using it for sheer convenience and a vacation incentive to get the dang dessert.

We are fairly frugal with food at home - always water, never dessert.

I think it is fun to shake it up and enjoy a vacation without having to think about it at all. I like having the money already paid. Doing the DDP frees me up to get the things I want without feeling like I am not allowed (even as an adult).

 

[Ratzo]

Hehe. So I may not agree w your argument, nor your dismissal of the DDP as something nobody should get... but this was still funny. I actually thought you were going to end it w offering a gift card that you'd charge ppl the $65 DDP price then self-fund it. But your punch line was the debit card.

Unfortunately that doesn't really work. Because people will consider the DDP a way to make things all inclusive. But people won't just buy a prepaid gift card and start loading it. Really you could use a prepaid gift card for everything in life, why limit to Disney? People just don't do that. Also the prepaid gift/debit card doesn't insulate one from the expensive nature of some entrees at menu places or the expensive character meals. Paying for those things OOP (whether it be cash, credit, gift or debit card) you will always have price influencing you to moderate your eating.

That's cool... I could never make the DxDP work, but always liked the DDP. I could see how on short trips like this with some expensive meals the DxDP can pay off fast.

Hang on a sec...and I'm being serious... You load a prepaid credit card with the EXACT amount of the DDP plus tax. I know you can use it for non-dining, but let's say you judiciously use it just for dining and snacks only. It's "worry-free" and gives "peace of mind" since the dining is still prepaid. Remember, the DDP isn't all you can eat/use it as many times as you like. You still have a fixed number of TS/QS/snacks, so there's still tracking and planning to be done. You can end up paying out of pocket for things not covered and lose things you already paid for (like snacks and mug refills) on the DDP.

Here's what I propose: Plan your restaurants and meals as if you were going to do the DDP, but don't buy the DDP. Buy the Ratzo DDP instead. I'll bet the majority of times this is done, you'll have money left over on my plan with less compromises.

 

[Nancyg56]

They haven't loosened it so much that you can avoid buying the same plan for everyone in the room for every night, though.
I'm guessing the people who share credits with people not in their room is a rather small percentage.

No, it's not that loose! I doubt Disney will go that far.

I do think that for family trips that involve two rooms, or vacations that include a friend visiting, sharing the credits works. I agree the percentage is probably rather small.

 

[MrInfinity]

Here's what I propose: Plan your restaurants and meals as if you were going to do the DDP, but don't buy the DDP. Buy the Ratzo DDP instead. I'll bet the majority of times this is done, you'll have money left over on my plan with less compromises.

You have so many assumptions in here.

First assumption, that you think I've been overpaying. I get most of my food at WDW extremely cheap via discounts, gift cards, points, promotions, payment methods, etc... and have been sharing savings strategies on the Dis for 7 years. We used the DDP when it saved us money, which it did lots of on our earlier trips, as well as providing many other great benefits.

Second assumption is that people are picking solely based on cost. (which is what this entire thread is about - is cost the sole factor or does anything else matter). As long as the DDP is within +/- 5% of my estimate, I would still use it for the tangential benefits. Even if it was -10% I still might use it.

Third assumption is that other people for whom the DDP is actually ideal, are really just clones of you, thus should spend the way you do because it's best for you. You seem to be a vet, like you've been around the block and you know the one best strategy. But you don't seem to accept families eat differently! If I was going with newbies or people who haven't been in a long time, I'd suggest they get the plan. It's just -- fun. It's easy. It gets people to prepay in ways they wouldn't if they were just setting aside money for their trip (aka the Ratzo Plan). I also just discovered a good use for the DxDP by reading the above posts, which I'd never thought would be effective for us.

Fourth assumption is that people equate putting money on a gift card with getting an all-inclusive trip. It's not. Now while I go to WDW loaded up on gift cards, most people and we're talking like 99% of people out there, don't. They just want to go have fun, be on vacation, and maybe order items that cost $45 or a $39 buffet for everyone which they would skip if they were paying for it out of pocket. Yes it still comes out of their pocket at some point, but the separation is healthy.

Fifth assumption, is that I've ever compromised on a meal. Who does this? I order what I want when I want it, and if given my style of spending, I can save money or improve our experience w the DDP, then I do. I don't think I've ever uttered the words "oh look we can't order an appetizer". I can't see any adult dropping $5k on a Disney trip sitting in a restaurant and throwing up their arms and going "oh look alcohol isn't covered, guess we're dry this trip". ROFL

Are we going to use the DDP on our upcoming visit? No. But I already know based on where we're eating that it's not going to be close. On past trips tho, we were a family of 2A/3C, ate at places like Akershus, Chef Mickeys and Biergarten, and made out like bandits on the plan. We'd split meals, leverage kid-points efficiently, and so on. We really crushed it on the plan back then which is easy to do when you're 2A/3C and resourceful.

Point is, you just can't generalize. The Ratzo Plan might be better for 2/3 of guests. But then it would be worse for 1/3 of guests. So why sell it to everyone? Why not ask the questions first, then make a recommendation?

 

[cdh]

If I were going to Le Cellier with the deluxe dining plan then I would order: Canadian cheddar cheese soup, New York Strip steak, and Nanaimo Pie. The total without a drink for the meal is $72. If I had a character breakfast the same day that's another $38 and a snack in the park is around $10. So, the plan costs $103 and I would have spent $120 to order the same items. That's a savings of $17 for each of us for a total of $51 for the day. I've never used the refillable mugs. That's a typical day of Disney dining for our family (when we are using the dining plan). Multiply that by five days and we have saved $255 using the plan. For this example, we would be using 3 table service credits and one snack. We have extra snacks when we leave to come home so I go to the gift shop in the Contemporary and pick up some cookies and fudge. When we leave, I will have no remaining meal or snack credits.

If we went and did not have the plan then I'd probably have a grilled chicken sandwich with fries for $17 at The Plaza. We would still have a snack for $10 and breakfast at Rainforest Café where I would have Tonga Toast for $12. Even if we had a third meal for around $20 the total for the day would be $59. So, it's definitely cheaper when we pay OOP because we make different dining choices. I agree that in order to come out ahead using the plan (if you care about that sort of thing) you need to choose more expensive restaurants....but I've never found that to be a problem. Oddly enough, the meals that I'm referring to in this second example would also involve using 3 table service credits and a snack for the day.

We usually make two trips to Disney each year. The first is for our daughter's birthday (which includes lots of character meals, Cinderellas, California Grill, Le Cellier, etc) so we buy the deluxe dining plan for that trip. The second trip is to go to the Halloween party. On the second trip we pay OOP and avoid most of the character meals and eat a ESPN, The Plaza, Tony's Town Square, etc. So, of course, dining on the second trip is far less expensive....and both trips are lots of fun.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Fifth assumption, is that I've ever compromised on a meal. Who does this? I order what I want when I want it, and if given my style of spending, I can save money or improve our experience w the DDP, then I do. I don't think I've ever uttered the words "oh look we can't order an appetizer". I can't see any adult dropping $5k on a Disney trip sitting in a restaurant and throwing up their arms and going "oh look alcohol isn't covered, guess we're dry this trip". ROFL

I actually agree with all your other assumptions but this one....I'll be real honest here your assumption that I'm quoting is a generalization too.

I actually would be that adult who says "oh look alcohol isn't covered, guess we're dry this trip" (though because we have a rental car if I was so inclined that I couldn't bear not having alcohol I can go to the liquor store and get some). I do this all the time at restaurants. I make a conscious decision on whether I want to spend $5-$7 on a glass of beer when I can get a 6 pack for $8-$10. If I decide I don't want to spend the money then yeah no beer for me at dinner. Same with the appetizer. Nearly all the time I get an appetizer it's because it's free with a coupon (though I tip off the subtotal prior to the coupon) or it's on a happy hour and thus discounted.

It comes down to your own personal habits and thoughts on it and it really doesn't matter the cost of your trip. My thoughts on it are the same if I'm spending $3,500 or $5,000 or more.

Now I have actually gone through all the places and then the menus of all the parks. It's an MS Word document that is 16 1/2 pages long. Believe me I haven't sat there saying "ohhh that's too much money I'm not getting it" I'm actually looking at the what I want but that doesn't mean that given my mood at the time or current spending tally at that time that I won't take into consideration the difference between ordering Gorditas for $10.75 OR Pollo al Pastor for $25.50 OR La Hacienda (Serves 2) -for $58.00 at La Hacienda de San Angel for example. All of those options would be perfectly fine but I might actually choose the Gorditas verus the more expensive options or I may choose to spend more at that time. I may choose to get the Empanada de Manzana for dessert for $7.95 but may only choose to get dessert if I got the Gorditas or I may choose to get both the Pollo (edited spelling) al Pastor and the dessert.

My decisions aren't solely based on cost mind you I do take into consideration what I might actually have room for.

 

[Ratzo]

First assumption, that you need to give me advice as you think I've been overpaying. I get most of my food at WDW extremely cheap via discounts, gift cards, points, promotions, payment methods, etc... and have been sharing savings strategies on the Dis for 7 years. We used the DDP when it saved us money, which it did lots of on our earlier trips, as well as providing many other great benefits.

Not quite. I do assume most (not all) don't really know if they're overpaying. A lot of people in this thread think they are doing better with the DDP and claim to have done the math, but almost none can back that up with evidence. I never said the DDP is never going to provide a financial benefit. For example, if it's given for free during off-peak times, it could definitely work out better than OOP.

Second assumption is that people are picking solely based on cost. (which is what this entire thread is about - is cost the sole factor or does anything else matter more). As long as the DDP is within +/- 5% of my estimate, I would still use it for the tangential benefits. Even if it was -10% I still might use it.

No, my issue is that people AREN'T picking solely based on cost. Why? Because the "tangential benefits" are not logical benefits. They're irrational. Rather than overcome this irrational behavior, cognitive dissonance kicks in and people defend the plan even stronger. This is known as "The Backfire Effect."

Third assumption is that other people who the DDP is actually ideal for, are really just clones of you, thus should spend the way you do because it's best for you. You seem to be a vet, like you've been around the block and you know the one best strategy. But you don't seem to accept families eat differently! If I was going with newbies or people who haven't been in a long time, I'd suggest they get the plan. It's just -- fun. It's easy. It gets people to prepay in ways they wouldn't if they were just setting aside money for their trip (aka the Ratzo Plan). I also just discovered a good use for the DxDP by reading the above posts, which I'd never thought would be effective for us.

I never said there is one best strategy. All I am saying is you're probably being screwed out of money with the dining plans and they usually end up being more restrictive than paying OOP. I've cited many examples of this happening. You won't know unless you plan your trip out ahead of time, know exactly what you will order, and crunch the numbers. Again, I read lots of claims, but have seen little proof. Rules of thumb like going to a two point signature restaurant on the DDP is pretty much a guarantee that you just went into the red. The savings is razor thin. One misstep and poof, your assumed savings is gone no matter how carefully you tried to avoid all the pitfalls.

Fourth assumption is that people equate putting money on a gift card with getting an all-inclusive trip. It's not. Now while I go to WDW loaded up on gift cards, most people and we're talking like 99% of people out there, don't. They just want to go have fun, be on vacation, and maybe order items that cost $45 or a $39 buffet for everyone which they would skip if they were paying for it out of pocket. Yes it still comes out of their pocket at some point, but the separation is healthy.

This is a psychological problem, not a money problem. The "I want the all-inclusive prepaid experience" is served equally well with a prepaid card as with the DDP. Neither are unlimited, but the prepaid card is less restrictive and actually ends up saving money of the DDP the majority of the time. Obviously neither option is truly all-inclusive, so it's no different than using your magic band and charging your room, but I'm trying to give people baby-steps.

Fifth assumption, is that I've ever compromised on a meal. Who does this? I order what I want when I want it, and if given my style of spending, I can save money or improve our experience w the DDP, then I do. I don't think I've ever uttered the words "oh look we can't order an appetizer". I can't see any adult dropping $5k on a Disney trip sitting in a restaurant and throwing up their arms and going "oh look alcohol isn't covered, guess we're dry this trip". ROFL

Good for you! You shouldn't compromise on a meal. If you can honestly say that you choose to eat at only at 1 point restaurants, truly prefer all the most expensive entrees every time throughout your entire trip, always want dessert from the TS restaurant and everyone in your group feels exactly the same then you might enjoy a $100 total savings...maybe. Me? Not so much. I like the freedom of going to The Brown Derby at HS or Le Cellier at Epcot. Of course, you are free to do the same, but poof! There go those points.

Point is, you just can't generalize. The Ratzo Plan might be better for 2/3 of guests. But then it would be worse for 1/3 of guests. So why sell it to everyone? Why not ask the questions first, then make a recommendation?

Actually, that's pretty much what I did.

 

[MrInfinity]

Not quite. I do assume most (not all) don't really know if they're overpaying.

Why would you assume this? I assume the people on the Dis are a combination of the top 1% or so of guests who actually do know what they're doing, and those who don't - but want to - and want better answers than blanket statements about how the DDP will not benefit them w/o first understanding them.

A lot of people in this thread think they are doing better with the DDP and claim to have done the math, but almost none can back that up with evidence.

I think it's just wasting time to "back that up with evidence" to you. I know my spreadsheets are accurate. But to take the time to explain them is not really worth it just to satisfy a naysayer who would end up concluding "ok it was good for you but that doesn't prove anything because you're just one person". If you want to do the math, I'm sure you can do it. I actually do the math and have experienced DDP and non-DDP trips (and can relate to the pros and cons of both), so I can generally say when the DDP will be a good value.

No, my issue is that people AREN'T picking solely based on cost. Why? Because the "tangential benefits" are not logical benefits. They're irrational.

That's not any more irrational than any of the other vacation related expenses. So you're saying it's "rational" to pay $50 for a steak that you can get at home for $15... but it's not rational to spend $52 on it if you get even more comfort and enjoyment out of it? The irrational part is eating out on vacation. But it is rational because we enjoy it despite the cost. If DDP adds to the cost but also the enjoyment then so be it! One person overpays by $37, you overpay by $35 but they enjoy it more, then they got a better value.

Rather than overcome this irrational behavior, cognitive dissonance kicks in and people defend the plan even stronger. This is known as "The Backfire Effect."

Works both ways.

All I am saying is you're probably being screwed out of money with the dining plans and they usually end up being more restrictive than paying OOP.

Why would you say that when you don't even know me? You never once asked where I eat, and I assure you I saved a ton on the DDP in the years in which it was a good value to me.

I've cited many examples of this happening.

Agreed, it happens. I'd even give 2/3 of the time, not using the DDP will save money. But still in 1/3 or so, it will. And for the many cases in which it's at least close, other benefits may outweigh the small cost difference.

You won't know unless you plan your trip out ahead of time, know exactly what you will order, and crunch the numbers.

You make it sound so complicated. Estimating what one might eat is hardly any more work than picking the ADRs in the first place.

This is a psychological problem, not a money problem. The "I want the all-inclusive prepaid experience" is served equally well with a prepaid card as with the DDP.

Offering all-inclusive options is not a "problem". That's so strange that you think of it that way. It's offered because people like it and buy it. It is obviously a desired thing, else places all around the world would not sell vacations that way.

Good for you! You shouldn't compromise on a meal. If you can honestly say that you choose to eat at only at 1 point restaurants, truly prefer all the most expensive entrees every time throughout your entire trip, always want dessert from the TS restaurant and everyone in your group feels exactly the same then you might enjoy a $100 total savings...maybe.

Ok, but your math is off. If you did those things, you'd be ahead way more than $100. I was ahead $200 with only about half of my meals being "optimal" ones. I really eat what I want. Then I look at how to pay for them. Add up the prices, compare. Done.

Me? Not so much. I like the freedom of going to The Brown Derby at HS or Le Cellier at Epcot. Of course, you are free to do the same, but poof! There go those points.

It's great having the freedom to do this. You have this freedom to start with, and then once you choose, you decide to pay one way or the other. You don't pick the plan and then choose your restaurants based on that. You seem to have it backwards.

 

[kniquy]

What you should do is take that same amount of money. Put it on to disney gift cards -still paid off ahead- use that as your "dining plan". We found the dining plan to be too much food and it became rather confusing when we were trying to order a few snacks in paris -- we ended up using a QS credit because it was too confusing to figure out what each person was ordering. We now do the gift card route. You can buy disney gift cards from target using the target red card and get 5% off (I think you still can do that). There is a little savings! This allows us to order what we want. If we just want a selection of apps and a salad -- we can do that. I rarely drink soda but because i had the plan i did.

If you know it isn't a good deal then why would you give Disney free money? You already spend so much for a vacation there so save a little where you can. The gift card route works and if you have some left over then use that for souvenirs.

 

[Ratzo]

Why would you assume this? I assume the people on the Dis are a combination of the top 1% or so of guests who actually do know what they're doing, and those who don't - but want to - and want better answers than blanket statements about how the DDP will not benefit them w/o first understanding them.

Apparently they don't. Go back and re-read this thread. They don't care if they lose money. They like the "convenience" of being restricted to a certain number of points to be used on a certain kind of resturant items regardless of cost. I wouldn't call these people the "top 1% or so of guests who actually do know what they're doing."

I think it's just wasting time to "back that up with evidence" to you. I know my spreadsheets are accurate. But to take the time to explain them is not really worth it just to satisfy a naysayer who would end up concluding "ok it was good for you but that doesn't prove anything because you're just one person". If you want to do the math, I'm sure you can do it. I actually do the math and have experienced DDP and non-DDP trips (and can relate to the pros and cons of both), so I can generally say when the DDP will be a good value.

It's simple to share your spreadsheet for everyone's benefit. You don't have to explain it in detail since "it's just simple arithmetic," right? What if I told you I saved $1,000 paying OOP over the DDP? Do you believe me? If you asked for me to tell you exactly how I did it, would it be reasonable for me to say "no" even though I claim the answer is on my hard drive, a few clicks-away? Perhaps there's something else going on?

That's not any more irrational than any of the other vacation related expenses. So you're saying it's "rational" to pay $50 for a steak that you can get at home for $15... but it's not rational to spend $52 on it if you get even more comfort and enjoyment out of it? The irrational part is eating out on vacation. But it is rational because we enjoy it despite the cost. If DDP adds to the cost but also the enjoyment then so be it! One person overpays by $37, you overpay by $35 but they enjoy it more, then they got a better value.

You're paying NOT to leave Disney property and eat somewhere else. That costs time, which is a premium when on a Disney vacation. It also requires additional effort. Time and effort has a price. You're paying more for a "Disney steak" because it's less convenient to get the cheaper one offsite. (Not to mention the "Disney experience" that's not available anywhere else.) On the other-hand, paying extra for the SAME Disney steak because you need to delude yourself into feeling less guilty when on an expensive vacation is irrational.

Works both ways.

Off the "appeal to emotion" logical fallacy and onto the "tu quoque" logical fallacy. Not really an improvement.

Why would you say that when you don't even know me? You never once asked where I eat, and I assure you I saved a ton on the DDP in the years in which it was a good value to me.

Hence the word "probably." Like if you said you smoked a pack of cigarettes every day and I said you shouldn't do that because you're probably going to be less healthy for it. While I don't know you and maybe you'll be lucky enough to avoid cancer, etc., it doesn't make what I said any less true. Odds are, you're worse off.

Offering all-inclusive options is not a "problem". That's so strange that you think of it that way. It's offered because people like it and buy it. It is obviously a desired thing, else places all around the world would not sell vacations that way.

I don't think of it that way. Other people do. Re-read the thread and ask those people why they think of the DDP as "all-inclusive."

Ok, but your math is off. If you did those things, you'd be ahead way more than $100. I was ahead $200 with only about half of my meals being "optimal" ones. I really eat what I want. Then I look at how to pay for them. Add up the prices, compare. Done.

I believe you. Please show your work since others will benefit. It will be a "dining itinerary" people can follow that will guarantee over $200 of savings. Why are you keeping it a secret?

It's great having the freedom to do this. You have this freedom to start with, and then once you choose, you decide to pay one way or the other. You don't pick the plan and then choose your restaurants based on that. You seem to have it backwards.

If you get the DxDDP, it's even WORSE. You'd have to avoid 1 point restaurants and always order appetizers and desserts at every TS location. I assumed you knew that based on your spreadsheet.