Use Year and Deed Expiration

[tpskult]

Trying to calculate the years left on a Saratoga Spring Contract I am trying to purchase with December Use Year.
With the deed expiring in January 2054 will you still get a round of points in December 2053? or will the last round of points come in December 2052 so you have just over a year to use? trying to calculate the point cost per year on the life of the contract. any info is appreciated.

 

[erionm]

No one knows how the end of life of a resort is going to work yet.

 

[CarolMN]

Disney has been silent on that, so as @erionm posted, no one knows. My advice is to calculate it based on 2052 being the last allocation of December use year points.

FWIW, I place vey little value on points coming a the end of the contracts, anyway.

 

[drusba]

Disney has not said what will actually happen in the last few years of any expiring resort, five of which--BWV, BCV, BRV, HH, and VB--expire Jan 31, 2042, and one, OKW, partly expires at that time. As the applicable terms relevant to expiration are essentially the same for all resorts, except for different years, one can conclude that for SSR, someone with a Dec use year will be entitled to the full complement of points in Dec 2053, but they would all have to used by Jan 31, 2054. Also, no one will be able to bank 2053 points. If full 100% borrowing is in effect then, I suspect you will see a huge amount of it from the 2053 use year into the 2052 use year, which raises the possible issue that borrowing will be suspended on or before the 2052 use year begins to attempt to partially avoid the probable reservation chaos that is likely to occur in the last two years before expiration.

 

[jbreen2010]

I didn’t realize that DVC had been silent on this.

I would have thought it would be a rolling expiration throughout day 2054 for SSR…otherwise that last year availability will be a cluster in terms of people trying to borrow and use up as many points as possible.

One would think there is indeed a plan in place - even if they haven’t broadcasted it yet. Maybe someone can ask at the annual association meeting?

 

[Sandisw]

I didn’t realize that DVC had been silent on this.

I would have thought it would be a rolling expiration throughout day 2054 for SSR…otherwise that last year availability will be a cluster in terms of people trying to borrow and use up as many points as possible.

One would think there is indeed a plan in place - even if they haven’t broadcasted it yet. Maybe someone can ask at the annual association meeting?

I would venture to guess there is no plan and won’t be until they need it, Between now and then they will have a lot of changes to who is running things and making decisions,

They won’t even speculate for owners because they will want to be able to do whatever makes sense at the time,

My guess is they will limit banking and borrowing the last few years I even think they may remove VB and HH from BVTC early so those owners will only be booking their own resorts…but it’s all just my own speculation.

I own a Dec UY, so I figure I will start borrowing mode years ahead of time and plan on a Dec trip the last year of the resort!

 

[zavandor]

I think they will stop banking one or two years before the expiration, but not limit borrowing. Otherwise it would be quite unfair for December UY owners, who would have only 2 months to use their last set of points. Depending on UY distribution, there might not even be enough time to use the Dec points alone (SSR is quite heavy on Dec). With the lockoff premium eating some of the points away, there should be enough "space" for everyone, if people don't panic and DIS stops prebooking breakage inventory.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I would add that if a single year that is 30+ years in the future makes or breaks the purchase it is too close to the edge to make it a financial decision on if it is "worth it" since too many additional variables may blow it up anyway.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I would add that if a single year that is 30+ years in the future makes or breaks the purchase it is too close to the edge to make it a financial decision on if it is "worth it" since too many additional variables may blow it up anyway.

I was just thinking this. At 87, I may well be very engaged in taking vacations still, possibly with great grandkids. I sure hope I will be. I likely won't, however, be overly engaged in whether I got those last few points out of a contract I purchased 35 years earlier.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say my interests and concerns will lie elsewhere (and hopefully will have some some time).

 

[kandlsutton]

When considering a DEC UY, I asked my guide. FWIW, we should get the last year’s points allotment, but would only have 2 months to use that full allotment. My AUG UY would have 6 months for that year’s allotment, I bought in for 50 years of points, not 49. I probably won’t be here to use them, but hopefully my kids will,

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Pretty hilarious that we all spent tens of thousands of dollars on this without knowing the answer to this question.

 

[CarolynFH]

Pretty hilarious that we all spent tens of thousands of dollars on this without knowing the answer to this question.

Well, we realized when we bought (and especially realize now) that we might not be around to see 2042, so it wasn't really a concern at the time. We're more curious than anything to find out how they're going to handle it. We'll have had a good 44 years of use by then, in any case.

 

[chalee94]

Pretty hilarious that we all spent tens of thousands of dollars on this without knowing the answer to this question.

The contract answer is that you get the points in the last UY and the underlying property transfers to Disney on Jan 31, 2042. So absent some adjustment to the rules, you would get Dec UY pts and have 2 months to use them.

If there are adjustments, we will find out later. Anyone who owns right now cannot claim that they are unaware that Disney has the right to suspend or limit banking and borrowing.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Another un-answered question is what will happen with the Capital Reserve fund over the last 10 or so years?

I know that some DVC Members did ask this at the time of the OKW extension offer and were "promised" that adjustments would be made over the final few years to reduce the maintenance fee structure for those who had not extended their contract.

The Capital Reserve fund , for each DVC Resort, is an annual expense where those funds are set aside for future planned expenses (renovation, new roof, etc., etc., etc..). These funds are programmed to use used for these purposes within a timeframe (10-12 years?) where these expenses can be managed from this account rather than a huge assessment in one year's dues.

At some time during the final years, there will be no benefit for Members to pay into the Capital Reserve since they (WE) will no longer benefit from any improvement found from the use of those funds. For example, while no one yet knows what will become of these resorts after Feb 1, 2042 - they may be resold by DVD, they may addressed by a wrecking ball with a new resort built in their place, or they could be used by Disney Resorts for rental accommodations just like other exiting resorts. Regardless, the Member/Owners on 01/31/2042 will not benefit from any balance remaining in the Capital Reserve fund - so, IMO, that fund should be at "0" by that date and Member/owners should not have paid into the reserve over the final years.

Some of us were told in 2007/08 that this would be the case. It remains to be seen the amount of the annual fee reduction made due to this budget item.

For OKW, it does present a challenge as the 2057 owners (where the number increases each day a direct OKW purchase is made) will bear the entire responsibility to maintain that fund for the final 15 years.

Just something to consider and watch for in the final 10-12 years of every DVC Resort.

Stay Tuned!

 

[DKZB]

Trying to calculate the years left on a Saratoga Spring Contract I am trying to purchase with December Use Year.
With the deed expiring in January 2054 will you still get a round of points in December 2053? or will the last round of points come in December 2052 so you have just over a year to use? trying to calculate the point cost per year on the life of the contract. any info is appreciated.

I literally just signed an SSR contract. It said that they deed expires 1/31/2054. That makes sense. It is after all 2053 points are issued but before any 2054 points are issued. I guess in theory you will only have 2 months to use the 2053 points for a December UY but I would have to imagine that Disney would let people use those points until at least 11/30/2054 even if its at another property. This is 100% speculation though.

 

[Sandisw]

I literally just signed an SSR contract. It said that they deed expires 1/31/2054. That makes sense. It is after all 2053 points are issued but before any 2054 points are issued. I guess in theory you will only have 2 months to use the 2053 points for a December UY but I would have to imagine that Disney would let people use those points until at least 11/30/2054 even if its at another property. This is 100% speculation though.

I don’t think they can do that because then it’s an uneven balance of points. When the resort ends, so do all the points to go with it since your contract ceases to exist.

Those with Dec UYs, can begin using those points for those bookings as early as January 2053, assuming borrowing has been suspended.

 

[DKZB]

I don’t think they can do that because then it’s an uneven balance of points. When the resort ends, so do all the points to go with it since your contract ceases to exist.

Those with Dec UYs, can begin using those points for those bookings as early as January 2053, assuming borrowing has been suspended.

Are you saying they can use December points in January 2053?

 

[Sandisw]

Are you saying they can use December points in January 2053?

If they have not restricted borrowing they can be used for trips as early as Dec 2052.

But trips for Dec 2053 can be booked at 11 months ahead starting January 2053.

My point is that there will be the ability to use them for two months. Sure, it will be difficult but not impossible.

But I plan to be on the borrow mode at least 5 years ahead of time.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Another un-answered question is what will happen with the Capital Reserve fund over the last 10 or so years?

I know that some DVC Members did ask this at the time of the OKW extension offer and were "promised" that adjustments would be made over the final few years to reduce the maintenance fee structure for those who had not extended their contract.

The Capital Reserve fund , for each DVC Resort, is an annual expense where those funds are set aside for future planned expenses (renovation, new roof, etc., etc., etc..). These funds are programmed to use used for these purposes within a timeframe (10-12 years?) where these expenses can be managed from this account rather than a huge assessment in one year's dues.

At some time during the final years, there will be no benefit for Members to pay into the Capital Reserve since they (WE) will no longer benefit from any improvement found from the use of those funds. For example, while no one yet knows what will become of these resorts after Feb 1, 2042 - they may be resold by DVD, they may addressed by a wrecking ball with a new resort built in their place, or they could be used by Disney Resorts for rental accommodations just like other exiting resorts. Regardless, the Member/Owners on 01/31/2042 will not benefit from any balance remaining in the Capital Reserve fund - so, IMO, that fund should be at "0" by that date and Member/owners should not have paid into the reserve over the final years.

Some of us were told in 2007/08 that this would be the case. It remains to be seen the amount of the annual fee reduction made due to this budget item.

For OKW, it does present a challenge as the 2057 owners (where the number increases each day a direct OKW purchase is made) will bear the entire responsibility to maintain that fund for the final 15 years.

Just something to consider and watch for in the final 10-12 years of every DVC Resort.

Stay Tuned!

I can see Disney arguing that the Capital Reserve Fund is intended to provide, not for ongoing and incidental upkeep, but for periodic scheduled major maintenance, repair, and restoration of common area elements such as re-roofs, parking lot repaving and striping, building exterior painting and building envelope upkeep, etc. As the members, through their use and enjoyment of those common elements (normal wear and tear), have caused the need for maintenance, restoration, and repair, Disney will retain those funds to perform that anticipated future work prior to selling the properties or creating new Resort ownerships.

Kinda like a giant non-refundable cleaning deposit, on steroids.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

I can see Disney arguing that the Capital Reserve Fund is intended to provide, not for ongoing and incidental upkeep, but for periodic scheduled major maintenance, repair, and restoration of common area elements such as re-roofs, parking lot repaving and striping, building exterior painting and building envelope upkeep, etc. As the members, through their use and enjoyment of those common elements (normal wear and tear), have caused the need for maintenance, restoration, and repair, Disney will retain those funds to perform that anticipated future work prior to selling the properties or creating new Resort ownerships.

Kinda like a giant non-refundable cleaning deposit, on steroids.

Perhaps, but that is not what DVC stated when asked in 2007 at a public meeting for OKW owners.