use short term disability for doctor's visit

[Christine]

OP did meant ion that the employee in question told the manager's manager before being hired that she would need the special accommodations before being hired, and that person hired them anyway. I think part of the blame lays on the manager's manager.

However, not taking vacation days because it punishes the family because they want to go on vacation is bull. If she truly needs these doctor appointments then her health should come first. Her family should understand that.

I agree--the employee did mention this medical issue before being hired and that she would need the extra time for appointment. She needs to let HR and her manager know that this was discussed.

But as far as her vacation goes--tough. I spend years with no annual leave and no vacation because I was dealing with two toddler who were always sick AND I had my own thyroid cancer thing I was going through. You use your sick leave, vacation, and anything else. You do owe *something* to an employer and that's to be at work for the days that you're hired to be at work. If you use your PTO for health reasons--well, I'm sorry but life's not fair.

 

[msjprincess]

How specific was she about the appointments when she told the manager. Did the manager realize there were going to be so many and it would be an ongoing thing.

I can't believe that none of these doctors have weekend or evening hours.

She has type 2 diabetes, she sees an endocrinologist, a regular doctor, she has back pain, and has physical therapy, physical therapy does have Saturday schedule, but she can't take the weekday schedule, hence she has stopped physical therapy. She has regular check up, then mammography. she has not been taking all of them. Then there is the dentist appointments. Say in the last 10 days, she had 2 different minor surgeries, but it took her 4 days, including follow up visits and taking off the stitches, and she used her vacation days.

 

[Christine]

I can't believe that none of theses doctors have weekend or evening hours.

I regularly see an endocrinologist, a GYN, a dentist, a dermatologist, and a gastroenterologist. The dermatologist is the ONLY one that has Saturday hours and that's because she is a new doctor and is trying to build up her patients.

The rest of my doctors barely have office hours 4 days a week and NONE of them have appointments after hours. I do get off at 2:30 so I can usually get a 4:00 appt. with one of them but that is it. I was surprised to read in an earlier post that the woman had managed to get a 6:30PM appt with a doctor. That's unheard of in my circle of doctors.

 

[Kathi OD]

I regularly see an endocrinologist, a GYN, a dentist, a dermatologist, and a gastroenterologist. The dermatologist is the ONLY one that has Saturday hours and that's because she is a new doctor and is trying to build up her patients.

The rest of my doctors barely have office hours 4 days a week and NONE of them have appointments after hours. I do get off at 2:30 so I can usually get a 4:00 appt. with one of them but that is it. I was surprised to read in an earlier post that the woman had managed to get a 6:30PM appt with a doctor. That's unheard of in my circle of doctors.

I have the same issue with many of my doctors. My family doctor recommended a gastroenterologist whose last appointment any day of the week is 3PM. The earliest appointment is 9AM. I had to find another gastro.

Fortunately, I also get out of work at 2:30 and can usually get an appointment at 3:30 or 4. But I feel for those who have to work until 5 M-F, as getting a doctor's appointment without taking time off can be a daunting task.

 

[Tink-aholic]

I teach seniors in high school (and often place them in jobs) and I make sure that they understand that, in this employment climate, it is not acceptable to call in for the first two years. If they make that their goal and HAPPEN to call in once or twice during that time, then they are probably going to keep their job. Probably.

Most of the kids I placed are still in those jobs 5, 6, and 7 years later...so it must work.

 

[tvguy]

Under federal FMLA you can take it a few hours here and there but it has to be for a single consistent condition. For example, if someone has cancer and goes for chemo one day a week (takes whole day) and comes in an hour late for a blood test a different day, and occasionally misses a string of days because of increased susceptibility to viruses, they can take FMLA for all those times.

But if this is a case, for example, where someone just got health insurance so they signed themselves us for a dentist, and an eye doctor, and a check up, and then bloodwork, and then a follow up, and the dermatologist, and then their kids have dentist and one of them had to go back twice. That wouldn't be covered.

Thanks. Never followed up on using FMLA for my mom. Somehow managed to juggle her care using sick days. Still only used 4 of my 7 sick days in 2012.

 

[fac]

I have told my friend to check with HR to look into FMLA. I don't think it is fair to say that she took advantage of the situation...In fact, the reason she brought up to me was that she planned to use her vacation days and sick days for the doctors' visits instead of going in late.

She was my co-worker many years ago, hence I knew the type of work she did. She is exempt, but does require "coverage", which is very rare, because clients/co-workers normally called them direct on their cells and it is 7/24. In her work, there are a lot of (unpaid) overtime hours, or sometimes weekend work, what normally happens is that they would go in late, work from home, or take a day off ("undocumented" comp time with manager's approval). I understand it depends on the "employer" (in fact, mainly the manager), but it is a common practice and I have seen this in all the companies I have worked for and so does she.

(Now I understand why she has this problem, because in her current company, she doesn't get the "comp time").

Before she accepted the job, she told the manager's manager that she need time to see doctors (she didn't know about the diabetes at the time) but for different reason. She was told her it was okay and they were flexible. It was a reason she accepted the job.

Even I listed all the conditions, and I checked with her just now that she didn't take care of all of them, she stopped the physical therapy when she took this job. She would get her manager's okay to go into the office late for doctor's visits on average around (or below) once a month for the last year. She has worked in this job more than a year (it is "new" in my sense). Examples of the visits were mammography, twice for the regular check up, a few dental appointments, when her primary doctor found out she has diabetes, the primary doctor asked to see her before the 6 months check up, then primary doctor sent her to see an endocrinologist who initially wanted to see her in a month, she dragged it on so that she saw the endocrinologist after 3 months and she has seen the endocrinologist twice. She mainly scheduled the appointments at 8:00 am so that she could be in the office no later than 10:00 am.

However, in her office, her team is the only team that works 9 to 6 and she was asked to work overtime quite often and knew about it in the morning (there were a few months she had overtime 50% of the month). There were two reasons she began to think about getting STD for the doctors' visits or tried to find out what she legally can do...

a. She felt that her manager has stabbed her when she tried to use a sick day for doctors' visits.

b. The 2 surgeries in 10 days ( I am surprised someone even questioned whether it was a medical necessity as if she likes to spend the vacation days for surgery). She had an appointment with an ophthalmologist on 12/14 at the recommendation of the endocrinologist, the ophthalmologist noticed she had a zist (??) near her right eye, hence recommended her to remove it and it was done last week (her vacation week). Then the second appointment was for a podiatrist, her foot was hurting, it turned out to be an ingrown toenail, hence a minor surgery on the same day, but a follow up visit last week (her vacation week). She will also have a follow up visit this week to remove the stitches (her vacation time).

Hence she planned to her vacation time to see doctors, but she is trying to find out what she legally can use..Given the amount of overtime work she is required to do, if her manager were not happy for her to come in late or leave early for follow up visits or regular check up but felt that it was okay to ask her for frequent overtime work, I don't think that she is taking advantage of the situation...but just that she has a mean boss.
Obviously, if she is using her vacation time or unpaid FMLA for doctors' visits, she may as well take care of her back pain and see her gynecologist.

 

[Allison]

Holy cow, I could never tell you that much detail about my own job, much less a friends activity at their job.

 

[bigbabyblues]

In our company you have to use your PTO time for your FMLA time. Once your PTO is gone you then go unpaid.

The hospital I worked for was like this as well. I don't know if that was company, state, or whatever policy.

 

[sam_gordon]

I have told my friend to check with HR to look into FMLA. I don't think it is fair to say that she took advantage of the situation...In fact, the reason she brought up to me was that she planned to use her vacation days and sick days for the doctors' visits instead of going in late.

She was my co-worker many years ago, hence I knew the type of work she did. She is exempt, but does require "coverage", which is very rare, because clients/co-workers normally called them direct on their cells and it is 7/24. In her work, there are a lot of (unpaid) overtime hours, or sometimes weekend work, what normally happens is that they would go in late, work from home, or take a day off ("undocumented" comp time with manager's approval). I understand it depends on the "employer" (in fact, mainly the manager), but it is a common practice and I have seen this in all the companies I have worked for and so does she.

(Now I understand why she has this problem, because in her current company, she doesn't get the "comp time").

Before she accepted the job, she told the manager's manager that she need time to see doctors (she didn't know about the diabetes at the time) but for different reason. She was told her it was okay and they were flexible. It was a reason she accepted the job.

Even I listed all the conditions, and I checked with her just now that she didn't take care of all of them, she stopped the physical therapy when she took this job. She would get her manager's okay to go into the office late for doctor's visits on average around (or below) once a month for the last year. She has worked in this job more than a year (it is "new" in my sense). Examples of the visits were mammography, twice for the regular check up, a few dental appointments, when her primary doctor found out she has diabetes, the primary doctor asked to see her before the 6 months check up, then primary doctor sent her to see an endocrinologist who initially wanted to see her in a month, she dragged it on so that she saw the endocrinologist after 3 months and she has seen the endocrinologist twice. She mainly scheduled the appointments at 8:00 am so that she could be in the office no later than 10:00 am.

However, in her office, her team is the only team that works 9 to 6 and she was asked to work overtime quite often and knew about it in the morning (there were a few months she had overtime 50% of the month). There were two reasons she began to think about getting STD for the doctors' visits or tried to find out what she legally can do...

a. She felt that her manager has stabbed her when she tried to use a sick day for doctors' visits.

b. The 2 surgeries in 10 days ( I am surprised someone even questioned whether it was a medical necessity as if she likes to spend the vacation days for surgery). She had an appointment with an ophthalmologist on 12/14 at the recommendation of the endocrinologist, the ophthalmologist noticed she had a zist (??) near her right eye, hence recommended her to remove it and it was done last week (her vacation week). Then the second appointment was for a podiatrist, her foot was hurting, it turned out to be an ingrown toenail, hence a minor surgery on the same day, but a follow up visit last week (her vacation week). She will also have a follow up visit this week to remove the stitches (her vacation time).

Hence she planned to her vacation time to see doctors, but she is trying to find out what she legally can use..Given the amount of overtime work she is required to do, if her manager were not happy for her to come in late or leave early for follow up visits or regular check up but felt that it was okay to ask her for frequent overtime work, I don't think that she is taking advantage of the situation...but just that she has a mean boss.
Obviously, if she is using her vacation time or unpaid FMLA for doctors' visits, she may as well take care of her back pain and see her gynecologist.

I have done the "comp" time thing too. Depending on the company, an exempt employee may be able to adjust their schedule as needed based on hours worked. It seems her "new" employer doesn't work that way.

IMO, coming in an hour or two late once a month isn't really bad. That was not the impression I got from the OP. However, everything stated before should still stand...

depending on the company, all paid leave may need to be take before STD kicks in.
STD (as I understand it) relates to a single "diagnosis". I don't think STD would work for an endocrinologist one day, a podiatrist the following week, and a opthamologist later in the month unless it's all tied to one disease.

The best advice is what you've already done... tell her to talk to HR. They'll be best suited to let her know what her options are.

 

[bittybabygrower]

Most places require you to use your sick PTO time to cover FMLA. And routine appoints such as dentist, mammography, Ect are not covered under FMLA. You have to have a qualifying illness that requires you to be out a certain number of days. You can have intermittent FMLA buy like I said you have to have a qualifying illness.

It sounds like she needs to cluster all her appointments and many places so have appointments on weekends. I don't think the employer is being unreasonable. She was hired to do a certain job and if she can't fulfill the obligation, she needs to find another job or see if she can go part time.

 

[sasywtch]

By the original post, I thought it was one illness which is why I mentioned FMLA.
My suggestion is, combine some of those trips. Doctor appt to take out stitches, get mamogram etc.

I had sciatica and was given exercises by the physical therapist. Perhaps your friend can ask her therapist for exerices at home.

I don't have any recomendations about her manager as I'm fortunate and get 8 hours sick leave a month and 15 hours of vacation a month (plus now, a furlough day). Unless we are gone all the time, it's usually a none issue. If you are constantly off and not on FMLA, they can ask for a doctor's note that you were there (can't say what for).

 

[Castillo Mom]

Most places require you to use your sick PTO time to cover FMLA. And routine appoints such as dentist, mammography, Ect are not covered under FMLA. You have to have a qualifying illness that requires you to be out a certain number of days. You can have intermittent FMLA buy like I said you have to have a qualifying illness.

It sounds like she needs to cluster all her appointments and many places so have appointments on weekends. I don't think the employer is being unreasonable. She was hired to do a certain job and if she can't fulfill the obligation, she needs to find another job or see if she can go part time.

That is correct, FMLA provides job protection for serious conditions that affect the employee's health on a recurring basis and in this specific case would not cover a short term illness such as an ingrown toenail, mammogram appointment, routine office visits or dental appointments. FMLA must be certified by a physician and can be likened to a prescription - it must be used "as directed". If not, the employee can be subject to disciplinary action.

It's unfortunate that it was necessary for this individual to have to take time off from work to attend to her healthcare issues. However, from a manager's point of view, we have to be accountable to someone ourselves and while we need to show compassion and be understanding to our employees, we are agents of the company and tasked to run a business which at times means making tough or unpopular decisions.

 

[fac]

I think as long as she can use FMLA for diabetes or back pain, I suspect it may be okay as she hasn't been focusing on them. By itself, it will cover several days for the year. Then she may be able to schedule her other appointments on the day she sees the endocrinologist.

I initially didn't go into too much about her disagreement with her manager and then deleted it later as it got to be too complicated. Before she took her vacation week last week, her manager told her sick day could only be used when she was sick on the day of work. She told them ahead of time of using the sick day for doctor's visit so that they could plan accordingly. The manager made a "mistake", after she pointed out the manager's mistake, the manager began to keep on finding faults on her during the meeting. (a long story). She told me and from what I found it seems to be true that sick day cannot be used for doctor's visit.

Then last week, she realized that she had to use a couple of days for follow up visits, therefore going forward, her vacation days could easily be used up..if FMLA required her to use sick day before unpaid time off, I assume it would be what she likes to have..

Here is a hypothetical question, if she uses up her vacation days for vacation, say by June, and if she needs to see her endocrinologist, and if there were no FMLA, does it mean that she can't see the doctor?

I understand the manager's point of view, many years ago, my manager wanted me to run a 7/24 support group after he cut some people, the first thing I presented to him was that there was not enough resources as his number didn't plan on people taking vacation time. I could make sure people not taking the vacation at the same time, but I could not deny people taking time off. I had 12 people at the time, with a minimum of 3 weeks vacation, plus the public holidays, it meant that I would need another resource. (No, I didn't get the extra headcount, but he got the picture LOL). As a manager, you don't really want someone to work for you because they can't find a better job. I told my team the same, and as short handed as it was, I made sure they could attend training within reason and for those who didn't ask for training, I encouraged them to go. They did a good job in covering each other.

Again, as I said, her job requirs a lot of overtime, hence, it is quite common to get "comp time".

 

[Ceila]

I think as long as she can use FMLA for diabetes or back pain, I suspect it may be okay as she hasn't been focusing on them. By itself, it will cover several days for the year. Then she may be able to schedule her other appointments on the day she sees the endocrinologist.

I initially didn't go into too much about her disagreement with her manager and then deleted it later as it got to be too complicated. Before she took her vacation week last week, her manager told her sick day could only be used when she was sick on the day of work. She told them ahead of time of using the sick day for doctor's visit so that they could plan accordingly. The manager made a "mistake", after she pointed out the manager's mistake, the manager began to keep on finding faults on her during the meeting. (a long story). She told me and from what I found it seems to be true that sick day cannot be used for doctor's visit.

Then last week, she realized that she had to use a couple of days for follow up visits, therefore going forward, her vacation days could easily be used up..if FMLA required her to use sick day before unpaid time off, I assume it would be what she likes to have..

Here is a hypothetical question, if she uses up her vacation days for vacation, say by June, and if she needs to see her endocrinologist, and if there were no FMLA, does it mean that she can't see the doctor?

I understand the manager's point of view, many years ago, my manager wanted me to run a 7/24 support group after he cut some people, the first thing I presented to him was that there was not enough resources as his number didn't plan on people taking vacation time. I could make sure people not taking the vacation at the same time, but I could not deny people taking time off. I had 12 people at the time, with a minimum of 3 weeks vacation, plus the public holidays, it meant that I would need another resource. (No, I didn't get the extra headcount, but he got the picture LOL). As a manager, you don't really want someone to work for you because they can't find a better job. I told my team the same, and as short handed as it was, I made sure they could attend training within reason and for those who didn't ask for training, I encouraged them to go. They did a good job in covering each other.

Again, as I said, her job requirs a lot of overtime, hence, it is quite common to get "comp time".

First, exempt means you don't get overtime. Working longer than 40 hours is considered part of the job. It's nice when companies allow those staff members some flexibility in their hours, but it isn't required, even if other companies in the field do so.

Second, since it was the manager's manager who gave your friend the impression that coming in late sometimes was OK, she may just have to deal with the fact that her manager sees things differently. Unless she is willing to go over her manager's head and speak to the higher-up, she needs to deal with her schedule as her supervisor requires if she wants to keep her job.

Third, the fact is that many, many working people have to deal with not only routine doctor's appointments, but specialists dealing with specific illnesses as well. I don't know why you keep bringing up the fact that she quit PT. That's probably the easiest thing to schedule outside of work hours. I've had PT myself in the last year for knee surgery, and the place I selected had evening and weekend hours. Your friend may need to choose different doctors and facilities that can accommodate her schedule. They are out there - it is up to her to stop complaining about her schedule and either find different healthcare providers or look for another job. Through your posts, she is coming off as a whiner.

 

[Tink-aholic]

Here is a hypothetical question, if she uses up her vacation days for vacation, say by June, and if she needs to see her endocrinologist, and if there were no FMLA, does it mean that she can't see the doctor?

Of course not. It just means that her job is not protected and she can be fired for going to the doctor. What is her priority? Her job or her convenience?

Your friend is presumably a grown up. If I had her hours and her conditions I would do as PPs have mentioned and seek out doctors, dentists, and PTs who have locations and hours that fit my schedule. If I need a visit with a doctor now and the office suggests an appointment time in the middle of the day, I simply say, "I cannot. I work" and they find me something else.

Many docs and dentists have one day a week or month that they are open late or on weekends to accommodate their working patients, and I have NEVER heard of a physical therapy place without evening appointments.

One of my all-time favorite sayings seems to apply to your friend: "In a storm, a pessimist will complain about the wind, an optimist will wait for the wind to change, and a pragmatist will adjust the sails." Your friend needs to start adjusting her sails if she wants to stay employed, IMHO. There are probably 200 qualified people who would LOVE to have her job, and who would be there every day, all day.

 

[taximomfor4]

I have had to use FMLA in the past. I also ended up going from one of the most-protected employees to being on the top of the short list for RIF. (Yes, I was RIF-ed as soon as FMLA ran out on me while i was hospitalized).

I was very careful to only take time off when I truly had zero other options. Follow-up visits? I cancelled most of them. I can tell if something is getting worse/infected/whatever. All non-essential dr visits were taken outside of work hours. Physicals, mammograms, dentist appointments, etc. that way when I had to go to the dr during work hours, it was absolutely necessary.

My advice to your friend: choose very carefully which appointments truly require missing work. Rock the boat as little as possible. Or find a job that works nontraditional hours, so she's not negatively impacting her fellow employees & the company. For now, I don't work at all. I'm looking for a job that I can commit to around my current schedule restrictions.

 

[DaisyD]

My husband is type 2 and he doesn't take off for drs. He schedules them around his work and he owns his own company. LOL In his company he gives PTL. That is used for sick leave, vacation, personal, whatever. You get so much a month towards it and you use it as you need it. You don't get it ahead of time for stuff. You earn it. He too would be annoyed at a new employee that spends much of her time at the drs, dentists, therapies and so on. Geesh.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

This friend of yours should look for a new job.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

I have to agree your friend is being hard-headed and needs to find new doctors. I agree that PT is very easy to schedule outside of work hours.

I would also recommend that she take one day per month and schedule all appts that day.

Her foot hurt was not an emergency, must go now appt. I know it hurt, but if your job is in jeopardy, she could have gone to an emergency care at the end of work to make sure it was not a "must fix". Then schedule the appt accordingly.

I feel sorry for her as the stress is very hard BUT it is true. She needs to adjust not the manager and by the looks of your posts she needs to do this immediately.