US to designate 80% of countries as Level 4 Do Not Travel

[Mathmagicland]

Received the following email this morning from ABD. We have a July 15 Rhine River cruise departure booked. This feels like the precursor to a cancellation. Can someone remind me of the typical time between ABD sending this email and actually cancelling the trip? I don't plan to move our deposit and will play chicken with ABD to get a full refund (i.e., I will pay in full if I need to). Would appreciate any insights from folks with earlier trips cancelled about the timeline of events on the ABD side between the money grab to encourage folks to move their deposits (yes, my cynical side about ABD is showing) and the actual cancellation.

My last AbD cancellation was last summer, and I seem to recall it was maybe 3 weeks? When they finally cancelled, it was about a week & I had my refund.

I had another trip booked for May 2021 and cancelled it myself a few days before PIF date. I think it was a week or so later that Abd cancelled the departure.

 

[Mathmagicland]

Some articles that may be helpful -

country by country guide to Covid recovery

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/reopening-soon-a-country-by-country-guide-to-coronavirus-recovery/
transiting through European airports

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/transiting-european-airports-covid/
Where you can go if you are vaccinated- by the country’s requirements not US State Dept -

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/country-by-country-guide-to-where-you-can-go-if-youre-vaccinated/

 

[buk110]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/world/europe/american-travel-to-europe.html
BRUSSELS — American tourists who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 will be able to visit the European Union over the summer, the head of the bloc’s executive body said in an interview with The New York Times on Sunday, more than a year after shutting down nonessential travel from most countries to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/world/europe/american-travel-to-europe.html
BRUSSELS — American tourists who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 will be able to visit the European Union over the summer, the head of the bloc’s executive body said in an interview with The New York Times on Sunday, more than a year after shutting down nonessential travel from most countries to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

I was coming here to post the same thing! Great news. Now get me my passport; I'm fully vaccinated and raring to go

 

[aggiedog]

I think that's great, but I still wonder 1.) if the US calling it a level 4 will have any impact, and 2.) how vigilant countries will be about vaccination proof.

Anyone can print out a vaccination card on white cardstock and scribble some numbers. If countries just want tourists, that will be enough. If countries really are trying to limit exposure to the virus, they may want more quantifiable proof. I will be interested to see what they require.

Not trying to be a downer, but I think there are various factors that have to line up.

 

[sayhello]

I think that's great, but I still wonder 1.) if the US calling it a level 4 will have any impact, and 2.) how vigilant countries will be about vaccination proof.

Anyone can print out a vaccination card on white cardstock and scribble some numbers. If countries just want tourists, that will be enough. If countries really are trying to limit exposure to the virus, they may want more quantifiable proof. I will be interested to see what they require.

Not trying to be a downer, but I think there are various factors that have to line up.

I definitely think the State Dept calling it a level 4 will have an impact. I've heard of more than one ABD to countries that are letting Americans in, that got cancelled last week right after the State Department started upgrading countries to Level 4 on 4/20. If the US says "Don't Go", I don't think it matters that the country says "Come on In!".

And I agree with you about the vaccination proof. I'm extremely leery of cruises and such that are saying "everyone on board has to be vaccinated", if all they are requiring is a hand-written notecard from wherever. There is *nothing* about those cards that is in any way verifiable. I really don't think they're going to be contacting my local grocery store pharmacy to see if I really got vaccinated there and if the signature is real. (Can the pharmacies actually even give out that information? I wouldn't think so.)

Sayhello

 

[buk110]

I definitely think the State Dept calling it a level 4 will have an impact. I've heard of more than one ABD to countries that are letting Americans in, that got cancelled last week right after the State Department started upgrading countries to Level 4 on 4/20. If the US says "Don't Go", I don't think it matters that the country says "Come on In!".

And I agree with you about the vaccination proof. I'm extremely leery of cruises and such that are saying "everyone on board has to be vaccinated", if all they are requiring is a hand-written notecard from wherever. There is *nothing* about those cards that is in any way verifiable. I really don't think they're going to be contacting my local grocery store pharmacy to see if I really got vaccinated there and if the signature is real. (Can the pharmacies actually even give out that information? I wouldn't think so.)

Sayhello

I'll purely speculate but I'm going to assume at some point there will be a smart phone app required or requiring proof of vaccinations uploaded to ABD prior to travel.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I'll purely speculate but I'm going to assume at some point there will be a smart phone app required or requiring proof of vaccinations uploaded to ABD prior to travel.

correct. In Europe the vaccinations are being linked to each country's equivalent of the USA Social Security number and the vaccination programs are being run through a centralized data base. The WHO is working with the countries to link the databases for a digital vaccine passport. The USA have a similar type thing for the ESTA tourist visa, which is linked to online check in for flights, cruise ships etc etc.

Its expected that in Europe that this digital vaccine passport will open international travel for vaccinated people between European countries. I would expect down the line, countries outside of Europe will have a similar system. But since USA does not have a central database and there is a lot of opposition to a digital vaccine passport, America tourists may get shut out of Europe if they don't have a compatible and comparable system.

 

[buk110]

British Airways already has the VeriFLY application, I'll remain optimistic that the EU just rolls something like this up for those visiting from outside the EU.

 

[CaliKris]

We have Portugal/Spain back-to-back ABD's booked for this September, so I have been watching their COVID numbers closely. When they both had a COVID surge after the holidays in January, they were classified as Level 3. Now that Portugal's COVID numbers have dropped below the US and Spain (although dropping) is a bit above the US, they have both been reclassified as Level 4. Doesn't make much sense to me. Both countries are behind the US in vaccinations but I am hoping by September that they will have most people vaccinated.

Now the question is whether ABD can successfully run these trips with the new protocols and whether they are willing to run them with both countries currently at a Level 4. I would call ABD, but I am getting tired of the standard "the trip is a go" answer from them (only to have my trips cancelled shortlly thereafter).

We are crossing our fingers that these trips will be a go, but have booked a back up trip to Kauai just in case.

 

[BadPinkTink]

We have Portugal/Spain back-to-back ABD's booked for this September, so I have been watching their COVID numbers closely. When they both had a COVID surge after the holidays in January, they were classified as Level 3. Now that Portugal's COVID numbers have dropped below the US and Spain (although dropping) is a bit above the US, they have both been reclassified as Level 4. Doesn't make much sense to me. Both countries are behind the US in vaccinations but I am hoping by September that they will have most people vaccinated.

Now the question is whether ABD can successfully run these trips with the new protocols and whether they are willing to run them with both countries currently at a Level 4. I would call ABD, but I am getting tired of the standard "the trip is a go" answer from them (only to have my trips cancelled shortlly thereafter).

We are crossing our fingers that these trips will be a go, but have booked a back up trip to Kauai just in case.

My guess is that this trip will be cancelled, purely on the fact that when a Government puts an official Do Not Travel notice on a country and a person does travel, then health and travel insurance becomes void. It is my guess that ABD will not risk travel to a country when they don't have insurance.

 

[CaliKris]

My guess is that this trip will be cancelled, purely on the fact that when a Government puts an official Do Not Travel notice on a country and a person does travel, then health and travel insurance becomes void. It is my guess that ABD will not risk travel to a country when they don't have insurance.

It will be interesting to see. I am hoping that the "Do Not Travel" advisory is lifted by our trip in September.

We will see if ABD continues with the Costa Rica (now a Level 4) trip which has been running.

 

[Mathmagicland]

My guess is that this trip will be cancelled, purely on the fact that when a Government puts an official Do Not Travel notice on a country and a person does travel, then health and travel insurance becomes void. It is my guess that ABD will not risk travel to a country when they don't have insurance.

Thanks for this info, something I’ve been very curious about.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Thanks for this info, something I’ve been very curious about.

You are welcome, its something I am very familiar with as my country Ireland, has an official notice against all international travel. My mom can't visit my sister in England until its lifted, as we will not risk travel with insurance. Most people don't realize the implications of a Do Not Travel notice.

 

[aggiedog]

correct. In Europe the vaccinations are being linked to each country's equivalent of the USA Social Security number and the vaccination programs are being run through a centralized data base. The WHO is working with the countries to link the databases for a digital vaccine passport. The USA have a similar type thing for the ESTA tourist visa, which is linked to online check in for flights, cruise ships etc etc.

Its expected that in Europe that this digital vaccine passport will open international travel for vaccinated people between European countries. I would expect down the line, countries outside of Europe will have a similar system. But since USA does not have a central database and there is a lot of opposition to a digital vaccine passport, America tourists may get shut out of Europe if they don't have a compatible and comparable system.

I see this as a big problem for the US. I believe Biden has already said there will not be a federal system in place to link vaccinations to individuals. Several states, including mine, have already banned "vaccine passports." It really frustrates me. It could have been something similar to the Global Entry system. I do think there will be private companies which will step up (when? which one will "win?"), but it would have been so much nicer to have a single governmental entity in charge. As it is, I got mine at a small, local hospital, signed up by phone. I'm sure I'm on some database somewhere, but it surely doesn't talk to anyone else.

 

[buk110]

As it is, I got mine at a small, local hospital, signed up by phone. I'm sure I'm on some database somewhere, but it surely doesn't talk to anyone else.

Given the number of colleges asking for vaccines prior to being admitted to dormitories and some employers requiring it (in at will states of course) it's going to be tracked. I'm hoping that the 'vaccine passport' thing will be on a state level and at the federal level be an opt-in. But who knows at this point. I was promised the 5G micro-chip implant from Bill Gates would give me super powers but all I got was a sore arm and a headache

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

Given the number of colleges asking for vaccines prior to being admitted to dormitories and some employers requiring it (in at will states of course) it's going to be tracked. I'm hoping that the 'vaccine passport' thing will be on a state level and at the federal level be an opt-in. But who knows at this point. I was promised the 5G micro-chip implant from Bill Gates would give me super powers but all I got was a sore arm and a headache

OMG this is awesome! My super powers took a while to appear. I'm sure yours will, too ROFL!!!

I think NY has a vaccine passport app they are using. I'm hoping CA will do one soon since a number of our local sports teams are requiring vaccinations (or tests) to attend games. It seems silly not to have something more universal. It's a vaccine record--not like we're giving people access to our entire medical record. I'm tired of pandering to a vocal minority about this issue (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/22/soon-we-need-stop-catering-vaccine-holdouts/). We'll see what happens. I'm using the BA Verifly app for my trip to the UK in a few weeks. I'll report back on how it works.

 

[kaseyC]

OMG this is awesome! My super powers took a while to appear. I'm sure yours will, too ROFL!!!

I think NY has a vaccine passport app they are using. I'm hoping CA will do one soon since a number of our local sports teams are requiring vaccinations (or tests) to attend games. It seems silly not to have something more universal. It's a vaccine record--not like we're giving people access to our entire medical record. I'm tired of pandering to a vocal minority about this issue (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/22/soon-we-need-stop-catering-vaccine-holdouts/). We'll see what happens. I'm using the BA Verifly app for my trip to the UK in a few weeks. I'll report back on how it works.

I'm hopeful they are planning some way to track either by state or nationally. When I went in for my annual physical a few weeks ago, my Dr. took the information from my vaccination card and added it to my records. I got my vaccine from a Nat. Guard sponsored drive thru clinic. My card has my first name/married name but not my hyphenated maiden-married name like on my passport and drivers license. There is a good chance my card wouldn't even be accepted as proof since the last names do not match exactly.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I'm hopeful they are planning some way to track either by state or nationally. When I went in for my annual physical a few weeks ago, my Dr. took the information from my vaccination card and added it to my records. I got my vaccine from a Nat. Guard sponsored drive thru clinic. My card has my first name/married name but not my hyphenated maiden-married name like on my passport and drivers license. There is a good chance my card wouldn't even be accepted as proof since the last names do not match exactly.

I've heard there are some states that are actually using a common database that allows access. Unfortunately for me, CA doesn't seem to be one of them. Our vaccinations were done through Sutter Health so I am able to access them through "My Health." But good point about making sure they appear in all records. My son's main physician is actually through Stanford so I should email them to make sure they have the info.

 

[sayhello]

I've heard there are some states that are actually using a common database that allows access. Unfortunately for me, CA doesn't seem to be one of them. Our vaccinations were done through Sutter Health so I am able to access them through "My Health." But good point about making sure they appear in all records. My son's main physician is actually through Stanford so I should email them to make sure they have the info.

My vaccination was done through a Kroger grocery store pharmacy. I have no clue if or how I could access something like that.

Sayhello