Upgrade deed from Resale to Direct?

[Mai Ku Tiki]

My guess would be they will take a different approach and allow those with restricted points, at 7 months, to pay a per reservation fee to book the other resorts.

For example, OTU points are $20/pt. As a resale owners, you can pay, say $5 to $10/pt plus your points to book the other resorts.

If I want to use 100 resale RIV, it would cost me an extra $500 to $1000 that one trip.

Does anything in "Restricted Resort" contracts address that possibility?

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm thinking of the board sponsor line that SSR is the most transacted timeshare in the world. Heard it more than once on some podcasts.

But even if all they had was SSR, Disney has plenty of lawyering/admin power to make washing points work, if they wanted to.

"Most transacted" isn't even close to "SSR is the largest timeshare in the world". Regardless, the point is they don't have enough points in circulation to make it worth their bother, regardless of how many lawyers they have. Even a lawyer will tell you, sometimes it makes more sense to just pay the parking ticket, rather than wasting your time fighting it.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

My guess would be they will take a different approach and allow those with restricted points, at 7 months, to pay a per reservation fee to book the other resorts.

For example, OTU points are $20/pt. As a resale owners, you can pay, say $5 to $10/pt plus your points to book the other resorts.

If I want to use 100 resale RIV, it would cost me an extra $500 to $1000 that one trip.

At ten dollars per point, it would almost make it cheaper for those owners to rent...

 

[Sandisw]

Does anything in "Restricted Resort" contracts address that possibility?

The language when RIV was added allows them to pretty much do anything they want in reference to restrictions.

But, BVTC also can charge a fee for trades…and not just for those that are restricted either. So, there is nothing to prevent them for creating a program for all owners to pay an upgrade fee.

It would pretty much function like an expanded program of OTU.

 

[Genie+]

But, BVTC also can charge a fee for trades…and not just for those that are restricted either. So, there is nothing to prevent them for creating a program for all owners to pay an upgrade fee.

Where would that money go… anything to benefit owners?

I wonder how far they can go. Could they do something like charge the trade fee from month 6-7 only? Or home priority start at 11m, trade fee at 6m, and open trade 4m?

Any change would cause shockwaves!

 

[AstroBlasters]

I'm thinking of the board sponsor line that SSR is the most transacted timeshare in the world. Heard it more than once on some podcasts.

But even if all they had was SSR, Disney has plenty of lawyering/admin power to make washing points work, if they wanted to.

That’s because of all the SSR SAP buyers that end up realizing they should have bought where they wanted to stay and end up selling…. I kid….I kid…

(we must be careful of the SSR resale mafia)

 

[Genie+]

That’s because of all the SSR SAP buyers that end up realizing they should have bought where they wanted to stay and end of selling…. I kid….I kid…

(we must be careful of the SSR resale mafia)

Here’s the ONE trick Resale Brokers absolutely HATE!

New buyers looking for something other than SSR. Brokers lose out on the extra 10% commissions they get from 1st time SSR buyers coming back to sell and buy something different. Why get one broker fee when you can get THREE!

 

[AstroBlasters]

Here’s the ONE trick Resale Brokers absolutely HATE!

New buyers looking for something other than SSR. Brokers lose out on the extra 10% commissions they get from 1st time SSR buyers coming back to sell and buy something different. Why get one broker fee when you can get THREE!

If I knew how to do emojis on here then I would post a standing ovation slow clap…. Bravo, bravo….

 

[DonMacGregor]

That’s because of all the SSR SAP buyers that end up realizing they should have bought where they wanted to stay and end up selling…. I kid….I kid…

(we must be careful of the SSR resale mafia)

Brokers lose out on the extra 10% commissions they get from 1st time SSR buyers coming back to sell and buy something different. Why get one broker fee when you can get THREE!

Curiously, our first contract was a 150-point SSR contract purchased direct with the specific intention to use them as SAP (and to qualify for a Blue Card). VERY early on, we had considered buying in at HHI with the intention of never staying there, until we became better educated on booking windows and the relative cost of dues. We then opted for SSR. We still have that contract and still use it for SAP (only stayed at SSR once but did like it), even though we have added on an additional 600 points and have enough other direct points to keep Blue Card status.

 

[Sandisw]

Where would that money go… anything to benefit owners?

I wonder how far they can go. Could they do something like charge the trade fee from month 6-7 only? Or home priority start at 11m, trade fee at 6m, and open trade 4m?

Any change would cause shockwaves!

No..it would be profit for BVTC. They can make decisions based on supply and demand. They don’t have to be the same for all resorts.

If they ever did it, my guess is they’d make it more simple and have it apply to all situations.

They can increase/decrease the home resort booking as long as it remains one month. So, they could say home resort is at 11 months and make trades whenever they want.

Point is they have a lot of options when it comes to adjust the program, especially when it comes to trades since the guarantees we have are to our home resort.

 

[Genie+]

No..it would be profit for BVTC. They can make decisions based on supply and demand. They don’t have to be the same for all resorts.

If they ever did it, my guess is they’d make it more simple and have it apply to all situations.

They can increase/decrease the home resort booking as long as it remains one month. So, they could say home resort is at 11 months and make trades whenever they want.

Point is they have a lot of options when it comes to adjust the program, especially when it comes to trades since the guarantees we have are to our home resort.

Interesting. thanks! So supply/demand is all they need to justify.

I think you’re right about keeping it simple. For the most part convoluted applications will be more headache than they are worth. The highest demand rooms/categories already go within the first month of home priority, so it would make no sense to single them out even at at 10 month trade premium. The next high demand group is much larger and across most/all resorts, where a broad simple application would be feasible and work best.

 

[Genie+]

Curiously, our first contract was a 150-point SSR contract purchased direct with the specific intention to use them as SAP (and to qualify for a Blue Card). VERY early on, we had considered buying in at HHI with the intention of never staying there, until we became better educated on booking windows and the relative cost of dues. We then opted for SSR. We still have that contract and still use it for SAP (only stayed at SSR once but did like it), even though we have added on an additional 600 points and have enough other direct points to keep Blue Card status.

The DVC landscape continues to evolve over the years. Comparative values of resorts kept changing as more get added, dues changing, distinctions made to direct, that minimum increasing, etc. It comes down to values of the options at purchase.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm curious if we see them ever doing that?

I think it is likely, but probably not until a substantial number of resales are restricted to their home resort only, because otherwise it is not worth developing the program when the potential sales targets are too few. I'm also not sure whether the model will be closer to Hilton/Diamond (requiring a new points purchase), or if it will follow Marriott's (imposing a hefty fee).

This is exactly the model that the old Diamond resorts (which Hilton bought and folded into MAX) uses: if you buy an HGV resort on the secondary market, your ownership is good for that resort (or resort trust) only. It's a little less restrictive than Disney in most cases, because many Diamond ownerships are in groups of resorts as a trust rather than a single resort. These are mostly the old Sunterra resorts. For HVC, you can re-qualify "dirty" resale points by buying (what is usually) an equal number of developer points.

Note that there are two different Hilton systems. Hilton Vacation Club (HVC) is a rebrand of the old Diamond resorts, and are restricted on resale. Hilton Grand Vacation Club (HGVC) includes the resorts that Hilton managed/owned prior to the Diamond purchase. Those resorts are not restricted on resale, though there may be a very small fee to activate the Club if you are a new owner and/or to bring a new ownership into an existing HGVC account.

Marriott has a different model. Their points cannot be used until paying an "education fee" that roughly doubles the cost of buying Marriott resale point from another owner. They are still much cheaper than retail (about 60% off).

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Disney will go the Diamond/Hilton route, and not the Marriott route, but that's an uninformed guess.

 

[Brian Noble]

One of the problems for DVC is that they created a perk limit of 25-150 points.

The easy way to solve this is to create a tiered system of perks. That's what nearly every other timeshare developer does, and Disney has something of a history of following others' footsteps when it comes to resale/retail differentiation.

Examples:

• Club Wyndham
• Marriott Vacation Club
• Bluegreen
• Hilton Grand Vacation Club
• WorldMark

And of course, DCL does this too.

It would be relatively easy for DVC to create a tiered set of benefits. It could be early access for a portion of the current Membership Extras, or it could be completely new things. Imagine an exclusive "Rare Character" meet-and-greet every Tuesday in Epcot (or whichever park is hurting the most for attendance) for those who own 500 or more developer points, and are staying on a DVC points vacation.

 

[Brian Noble]

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that Disney will go the Diamond/Hilton route, and not the Marriott route, but that's an uninformed guess.

One addendum: I would not buy resale expecting that Disney will ever do this.

 

[zavandor]

The easy way to solve this is to create a tiered system of perks. That's what nearly every other timeshare developer does, and Disney has something of a history of following others' footsteps when it comes to resale/retail differentiation.

Examples:

• Club Wyndham
• Marriott Vacation Club
• Bluegreen
• Hilton Grand Vacation Club
• WorldMark

And of course, DCL does this too.

It would be relatively easy for DVC to create a tiered set of benefits. It could be early access for a portion of the current Membership Extras, or it could be completely new things. Imagine an exclusive "Rare Character" meet-and-greet every Tuesday in Epcot (or whichever park is hurting the most for attendance) for those who own 500 or more developer points, and are staying on a DVC points vacation.

Imagine the outrage! The posts ravaging the new tiered system! The social media storms!
And then the people buying more points to qualify

 

[Robbie Cottam]

The easy way to solve this is to create a tiered system of perks. That's what nearly every other timeshare developer does, and Disney has something of a history of following others' footsteps when it comes to resale/retail differentiation.

Examples:

• Club Wyndham
• Marriott Vacation Club
• Bluegreen
• Hilton Grand Vacation Club
• WorldMark

And of course, DCL does this too.

It would be relatively easy for DVC to create a tiered set of benefits. It could be early access for a portion of the current Membership Extras, or it could be completely new things. Imagine an exclusive "Rare Character" meet-and-greet every Tuesday in Epcot (or whichever park is hurting the most for attendance) for those who own 500 or more developer points, and are staying on a DVC points vacation.

Cast members can't get yes and no right....
All of the programs you have listed are computer controled

 

[Sandisw]

Interesting. thanks! So supply/demand is all they need to justify.

I think you’re right about keeping it simple. For the most part convoluted applications will be more headache than they are worth. The highest demand rooms/categories already go within the first month of home priority, so it would make no sense to single them out even at at 10 month trade premium. The next high demand group is much larger and across most/all resorts, where a broad simple application would be feasible and work best.

They don't really need any justification to amend things, but booking trends is definitely something that would be used. I don't ever see them making home resort period shorter so I think we are all safe to having the 4 months at a minimum.

I can certainly see them increasing it for home resort owners at popular resorts if there came a time where getting rooms was very difficult. And, then it would reduce the time for trades. It is why I would never personally want to own at a resort outside WDW since that is where I want to be.

I also think there is a chance that one of the options they will take in the last few years of the 2042 resorts is increasing home resort priority there so that owners have longer to make sure they can use up their points where they own.

Basically, though, they have a lot of ways that they can adjust owners trading into other resorts, which is why I just don't see them doing the wholesale "point washing" idea...but rather, have a system set up that allows those with restricted points a chance to do the occasional trade. To me, it keeps the integrity of restrictions in place to why DVD wanted them to begin with.

 

[DanCali]

Marriott has a different model. Their points cannot be used until paying an "education fee" that roughly doubles the cost of buying Marriott resale point from another owner. They are still much cheaper than retail (about 60% off).

Marriott also employs the Hilton/Diamond model you refer to, but they do it with resale deeded weeks, not resale Trust points.

DVC may refer to the ownership as "points" but the product is more similar to a Marriott or Westin/Sheraton deeded week, except it's more flexible since it can be booked at any unit size and any length of stay (and it expires).

Marriott started out with deeded weeks and their points system launched around 2010, after they stopped building new resorts following the global financial crisis. Those "points" are based on a real estate trust which has thousands of weeks that were dumped in it over the years, whether it was unsold inventory, or ROFR weeks inventory. Marriott sells the trust as "points" and owners of those points own a sliver of that trust and can book (or exchange into) all the MVC resorts at 12 or 13 months out. As you mentioned, resale buyers who purchase Trust points are required to pay a hefty fee to make those points functional. And that fee has gone up by 200% since 2010, from $1/point to $3/point.

But there are still a lot of deeded weeks out there owned by Marriott owners, not the Trust. Those deeded weeks view the Marriott points system as another exchange option and the weeks that are "enrolled" in that exchange system (mostly those grandfathered pre-2010) can elect a fixed number of points in exchange for their week, which is then made available for points owners to book. Post-2010 resale weeks can trade via Interval but are shut out of that Marriott points exchange system (i.e., resale restrictions). However, owners attending a presentation are sometimes offered the option to have their resale weeks enrolled in the points system if they are willing to buy direct for a relatively large sum.

I suspect that's the route DVC may take as well, but would expect it to start only if resale prices of the restricted resorts are substantially lower than others, and if direct sales take a strong hit as a result of owners opting for a much cheaper albeit restricted resale product.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

ChatGPT told me t

This is not even close to being a reliable source for information and statistics like this.