*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[Mad Hattered]

It shouldn't be long now, right?

I am literally salivating waiting for the Mine Train to open but for all the wrong reasons. Let's see how the precious FP+ works out for everyone then.

 

[Mad Hattered]

But it will be long, very long and into the village, then.....

Oh, the puns, they are flying!

If I could post pictures at work still then I would have totally had a Flying Nun one posted here and then stated....my bad.

 

[2Tiggies]

Well, Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land aren't making me "locked in". In fact, by picking those, I probably should have been "locked up".

Of course that's because you know better. Many don't. There are aspects of this new system which rather ironically rely quite heavily on a good dose of ignorance.

I know you've been saying this for a while as well, but I am DYING to see what happens when the Mine Train opens. Will it be a total trainwreck (excuse the pun)?

My concern is that it might prompt tiering to be considered for MK. Unfortunately since it won't be open yet before our FP window comes round, we are going to have to abandon the very sound advice to try not to change things once we've booked them and leave this one open to add in at a later date. This is always going to be a disadvantage when an attraction opens just before your trip not only for new attractions, but I'm thinking for rides that have been closed for a rehab and aren't open yet. (Or can you book FP+ for an attraction that is down at the time but scheduled to be open when you arrive?)

 

[JimmyV]

Let's see how the precious FP+ works out for everyone then.

This one's easier to call than New York on Election Night. People will be posting here that they tried to book it 47 days out (or 58 days out) and got nuttin'. 60 Days = Rope Drop. Unless Disney trickles out the availablity or holds some back for "day of", there is no way that 50,000 summer visitors will not use up 12,000 FP well in advance.

 

[Mad Hattered]

This one's easier to call than New York on Election Night. People will be posting here that they tried to book it 47 days out (or 58 days out) and got nuttin'. 60 Days = Rope Drop. Unless Disney trickles out the availablity or holds some back for "day of", there is no way that 50,000 summer visitors will not use up 12,000 FP well in advance.

Sorta like the Witch standing there offering up the aaaaaapple?

 

[Shaden]

Honestly, I think Disney shot itself in the foot when it came out of the box with 3 pre-booked FPs. Anything less now will seem like a retraction, even though at Epcot, you are really only getting one that is useful. I think a better system would have been to allow guests to book one per day in advance. That way, they could have "locked in" their "must do" attraction, and then left the old system in place, even if that meant replacing the operations of the old system with a digital system. In other words, other than your one advanced FP, all others would be booked while in the park with no restrictions other than a limit of how much time must pass in between your selections. If they had come out of the box with this system, it would give the appearance of giving guests a huge benefit that they never had before without mucking up a system that was actually working. And to the people who would respond that 50% of the people weren't using the old system, I would say that once people got the opportunity to pre-book (just as they have now) it would familiarize them with the system such that they would have used in upon arrival. There is no reason to think that the current system is educating people on its use more so than what I would have done.

Edit to add: And instead of "Lock It In", my marketing campaign would have been: "What's Your Disney Must-Do?"

I think you are right that reducing from 3 now would be a mistake, although, most of this is a mistake so what's another small one ?

But more importantly I don't think it would totally serve the purpose of the system. They aren't just trying to "lock" you in to a trip to the parks, I mean, just by buying tickets you have sort of done that, especially with non-expiring gone now (they are gone arent' they ?) ... they want to know you will be in the parks for a span of time. That's how they get you to spend after all. That is where the 3 FPs are needed, at least, they have you for 3 hours. But also if you can FP Fireworks and parades and all that jazz, they probably have you for longer.

That I think makes the 3 FPs pretty important.

 

[FLchick415]

I am literally salivating waiting for the Mine Train to open but for all the wrong reasons. Let's see how the precious FP+ works out for everyone then.

Hoping for it to fail? Real nice.

 

[donnajherren]

But also keep in mind that many kids don't like to be on a strict schedule...so if he's like that and his only childhood trip memory is him being marched around the parks on a schedule...that might not be the best either.

My goal is to make it seem as little like a touring plan as possible!

I don't really want to do everything, because that's not feasible no matter how you slice it. I definitely want to hit the highlights--which, oddly enough, doesn't really mean "the biggest & most popular rides" for us, so that much will work out well!

 

[Shaden]

Hoping for it to fail? Real nice.

I don't think he is hoping for it to fail, I think he knows its going to fail.

I think the point he is making is that this will really show the limitations of FP+ ... something that others have been trying to down play consistently.

Its the counter side of the "Oh now I get to ride TSMM"
Though again, once summer hits and off site can pre-book, TSMM might be gone at 60 as well ... but it hasn't been yet.

If Mine Train is FP+able ... its going to be gone at 60 ... and then the same people who complained they didn't want to get up early, will be the same once complaining they didn't want to stay up til midnight 60 days out ...

 

[Mad Hattered]

Hoping for it to fail? Real nice.

No....just so I can witness the carnage that FP+ will unleash on it. It's going to be a fundamental fail because of FP+. I am not a fan of FP+ (or so I hear). Why wouldn't I want to see the results I expect? If it had traditional FP then it would be first come first served. Not anymore. And in that lies the beauty of it all.

Aaaaaaapple?

 

[Planogirl]

I don't see how three fastpasses locks people in that well. Of course, people who don't know better won't understand how to maximize their time but I can quickly ride three rides and then wander off to do something else. With the old system I would have been able to use the three fastpasses and then hope to get more which I believe more effectively locked me in. I see a potential for all day fastpass availability as something better (and more like to keep me around all day) than just three.

 

[morethananyonex]

I don't think he is hoping for it to fail, I think he knows its going to fail. I think the point he is making is that this will really show the limitations of FP+ ... something that others have been trying to down play consistently. Its the counter side of the "Oh now I get to ride TSMM" Though again, once summer hits and off site can pre-book, TSMM might be gone at 60 as well ... but it hasn't been yet. If Mine Train is FP+able ... its going to be gone at 60 ... and then the same people who complained they didn't want to get up early, will be the same once complaining they didn't want to stay up til midnight 60 days out ...

It won't be the same people complaining, because they will get up to book whatever FP+ they need in order to improve their vacation experience.

The people who really get the short end in all this are still the unresearched I'll deal with it when I get there type guests. What some people who love this system fail to address is that no matter how you spin this there is still a limited amount of FP for popular rides. So yay for FP+ lovers families, they get to ride TSMM for the first time ever (because they were too good for stand by, just like many of us have been accused of), but those FP are still running out, families are still getting shut out. The difference is now it's not theirs.

That's what this is really about. There is no system that can give everybody a FP for desirable rides every day. There's just not enough to go around. That's why I find the TSMM argument especially silly, people are still missing out, it's just different people. Nobody likes admitting they're only concerned with their experiences, but it's the truth and there's no shame in it, especially when it's your own vacation.

 

[jade1]

Honestly, I think Disney shot itself in the foot when it came out of the box with 3 pre-booked FPs. Anything less now will seem like a retraction, even though at Epcot, you are really only getting one that is useful. I think a better system would have been to allow guests to book one per day in advance. That way, they could have "locked in" their "must do" attraction, and then left the old system in place, even if that meant replacing the operations of the old system with a digital system. In other words, other than your one advanced FP, all others would be booked while in the park with no restrictions other than a limit of how much time must pass in between your selections. If they had come out of the box with this system, it would give the appearance of giving guests a huge benefit that they never had before without mucking up a system that was actually working. And to the people who would respond that 50% of the people weren't using the old system, I would say that once people got the opportunity to pre-book (just as they have now) it would familiarize them with the system such that they would have used in upon arrival. There is no reason to think that the current system is educating people on its use more so than what I would have done.

Edit to add: And instead of "Lock It In", my marketing campaign would have been: "What's Your Disney Must-Do?"

I would have jumped for joy with just one.

And agree a slower roll out may have been better-this system is limitless in what it can do-just needs attraction expansion (or huge price increases).

For us 3 (or 2 even) is still better, but 4 is even better, and 5 is even better.

At this point I think expansion is the only way to get where folks will want (remove tiers, add hopping, add/sell more FP+) so get the next billions spent already.

As for 7DMT, I still wish that was "4TH" MK FP+ you could purchase, or wait SB-as long as the revenue goes into another headliner.

 

[GrimGrinningMom]

I don't see how three fastpasses locks people in that well. Of course, people who don't know better won't understand how to maximize their time but I can quickly ride three rides and then wander off to do something else. With the old system I would have been able to use the three fastpasses and then hope to get more which I believe more effectively locked me in. I see a potential for all day fastpass availability as something better (and more like to keep me around all day) than just three.

I feel the same way about this. However, I wonder if that's just not true of the more "typical" park-goer? The psychological impact of having a "reservation" for something later in the day might keep someone around, killing time SHOPPING , who might otherwise leave after they had done some rides. Don't know... just a thought...

 

[Planogirl]

I feel the same way about this. However, I wonder if that's just not true of the more "typical" park-goer? The psychological impact of having a "reservation" for something later in the day might keep someone around, killing time SHOPPING , who might otherwise leave after they had done some rides. Don't know... just a thought...

True but one can only do so much shopping. If these people stay in the parks and get shopped out then that only leaves the standby lines. Will the inexperienced park-goer use up their three FP+ and then head for the standby lines? I wonder.

 

[2Tiggies]

I don't see how three fastpasses locks people in that well. Of course, people who don't know better won't understand how to maximize their time but I can quickly ride three rides and then wander off to do something else. With the old system I would have been able to use the three fastpasses and then hope to get more which I believe more effectively locked me in. I see a potential for all day fastpass availability as something better (and more like to keep me around all day) than just three.

It really does lock people in. I predict it's going to get harder to secure that those sought after FP's once this is available to all guests including offsite. And while we may get the attractions we want, the only way to ride a quick three rides is if you get your slots consecutively. This may be easy now 60 days out, but if and when it becomes 60 days for everyone (and I think it eventually will) it's going to be the TSM dash, only online on that day and people are going to be reluctant to try change anything if they are even remotely happy with what they want. It all depends what is more important to you: Riding the Mine train, Space Mountain and BTMR all in one day ... or riding them consecutively so you can dash out of the park once you've done them. In theory and yes, right now, it's not that hard to do, but getting 3 specific rides back to back is something I only see getting more difficult.

 

[2Tiggies]

True but one can only do so much shopping. If these people stay in the parks and get shopped out then that only leaves the standby lines. Will the inexperienced park-goer use up their three FP+ and then head for the standby lines? I wonder.

I'm with you on the shopping theory. I'm not sure that the inexperienced guest is necessarily going to stand in a long line for standby. If the posted time is too long, they are perhaps more likely to skip it than a moderately experienced guest IMO because it's harder to peg an attraction as a must do when you've never done it before. The reason we go back to our favorites over and over is because we have done them, experienced them and used our own experience to rate them as Great.

 

[Planogirl]

It really does lock people in. I predict it's going to get harder to secure that those sought after FP's once this is available to all guests including offsite. And while we may get the attractions we want, the only way to ride a quick three rides is if you get your slots consecutively. This may be easy now 60 days out, but if and when it becomes 60 days for everyone (and I think it eventually will) it's going to be the TSM dash, only online on that day and people are going to be reluctant to try change anything if they are even remotely happy with what they want. It all depends what is more important to you: Riding the Mine train, Space Mountain and BTMR all in one day ... or riding them consecutively so you can dash out of the park once you've done them. In theory and yes, right now, it's not that hard to do, but getting 3 specific rides back to back is something I only see getting more difficult.

Good point. This sounds real unpleasant if the parks are crowded though. If I have a FP+ slot in two hours then my choices are to shop or wander or get in a standby line. Maybe others don't mind but I'm not thrilled with those choices.

 

[GrimGrinningMom]

True but one can only do so much shopping. If these people stay in the parks and get shopped out then that only leaves the standby lines. Will the inexperienced park-goer use up their three FP+ and then head for the standby lines? I wonder.

I was thinking more like someone having FP+ reservations spread throughout the day and shopping in between if they deem other standby lines too long, as an example. Or maybe killing some time with SOTMK or a pirate adventure... and getting a dole whip while they wait! Knowing I have that FP+ at 4pm when it's now 2pm and I've done the other rides I wanted to ride, will I hang out and shop, have a snack, etc. until 4pm rather than leave my precious FP+ to be wasted?! Again, just a thought... I really don't know. I just know that an afternoon Living With the Land wouldn't keep me locked in... but if that ride is Soarin'...?!

 

[jade1]

True but one can only do so much shopping. If these people stay in the parks and get shopped out then that only leaves the standby lines. Will the inexperienced park-goer use up their three FP+ and then head for the standby lines? I wonder.

Yea but a lot of folks are looking at "todays" FP+ as if that's it forever. Many of us see this evolving into much more.

Jimmy's "just 1 per day" scenario to start would have bumped up reservations IMO, then they could ramp up over 2, 5, 10 or 20 years to whatever works best for most everyone.

3 will lock even more in IMO-but they need to expand (attractions) into the survey scenarios going forward IMO. The rolling 4th would keep a large percentage in the park and longer, as long as the rolling 4th has decent choices.