UPDATED: Maybe I've been around the DVC block a bit too long, am I wrong?

[chris1gill]

Hi All,

As some of you know, I've been really chomping at the bit to purchase a 50 point BW add on to complete our DVC portfolio... We have 150 at BW & 100 at OKW... I'm perfectly happy with the 100 @ OKW, but since we do like to stay at the Boardwalk more often, I think we would do well to have a total of 200 BW points.... It puts us at an even 300 points, which is perfectly fine....

BUT... I just got a call about a 50 point BW add on... $70.00 a point & there are only 13 points available come 6/2002, the next 50 point allotment would actually come 6/2003....

I figure I'm a patient person, but it seems like too much money to spend on a package I can't really use for 2 years... I put in an offer of 3K with closing to be paid by the seller... Considering the situation, I think that's generous!! Needless to say they want the full $70 a point... Have I been a bit out of touch or what? I would easily fork over 75 or more a point if there was a full allotment available, but there isn't... I don't think I'm being cheap here...

What do you think??? By the way, I'm still chomping at the bit for a 50 point package!!!

 

[Ralph&Pam]

If you use a $10/point reduction for the "rental value" of the 50 points they have already used from the 2001 use year (which just started two months ago) plus another 37 points already used for the 2002 use year (starts 6/2002), it looks to me you are being more than generous. I assume you will be paying the 2002 dues on the points they've used? It's certainly a seller's market for BWV points, but this package strikes me as overpriced. Why should you pay for the vacation(s) they already enjoyed?

Ralph

 

[drusba]

Is there a real estate broker involved? Here is the problem with low point resales through a timeshare broker. Such brokers usually have a minimum commission, $1000 to $1500, for any contract sold (they may do percentages but most often subject to the minimum). Problem that creates in a low point sale is that the seller has to charge a high price to keep from losing his shirt. In other words, the seller needs to charge an unfair price and the buyer should not agree to that price, which is one reason why low point sales are difficult to find as the only profitable way to sell them is without a broker. Strongly agree that the price is too high for what you would be getting.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I agree that it is seriously over priced. $70 a point is one thing, but with no points to use from the package for 2 years is another. I think you are being more than generous in your offer.

 

[chris1gill]

Thanks Everyone, I thought I was being overly generous with my offer, but when I made the offer I was told immediately that they would not accept it.... I'm just glad to hear I'm not cheap LOL... Like I said, I'm dying for a fifty point package, I'd be happy to pay 70 or 75 a point if it had points with it... but two years is a bit long to wait...

If anyone hears of any 50 point packages (with points or cheap with no points) just let me know please!! I've been waiting forever!!

 

[Laurajean1014]

I would pass on this deal. Actually, you may be better off calling Disney and asking if you can be put on wait list for 50 points. Disney has first rite of refusal and obtain these often! Then you can take advantage of your investment now and not later.

On the small add-on, I think it's worth going to Disney direct. On larger add-ons or purchases it is sometimes better to go elsewhere!

Wait it out! The buyer or others may be desperate and accept a lesser value. A former thread indicated that many of the resales are from newly unemployed DVCrs and that vacations are the first thing people will sell.

 

[nettie]

Did you get this offer from the Timeshare store? I've put out the word with them that I am in the market for 50 BWV points too. I hope I'm not dreaming.

 

[chris1gill]

Nettie, yes, it was the Timeshare store... 50 point contract, 13 points available 6/2002 & 50 points available starting 6/2003.... asking price 70/point

LauraJean, I have my name in with Disney directly for the 50 point add on, but I've not been called, and I've been on the list since January.... Maybe I should call my guide for an update... I thought I'd read that they were no longer using the waitlist... I want the add on at Boardwalk directly, so my options are a bit limited here as well... But I think you are right, unless they take my lower offer, I won't make a new offer, it's just not worth it to me...

Thanks so much for the info everyone!

 

[drusba]

Note,I do not believe it is correct that points become available "often" as a result of Disney's exercising right of first refusal. A sales rep informed me once that it is actually rare. There were points available at BWV earlier this year after it had officially sold out not because of Disney's exercising rights of first refusal but because contracts sold by Disney towards the end of the sell out fell through, opening up some original points for sale. Generally the right of first refusal will be exercised only if Disney believes the resale price agreed to is lower than some base that it sets, reported to be about $55 a point now although lower if you are talking about a contract with few or no current points that can be used immediately or a contract with a large number of points(e.g., 1000) that are difficult to sell. It appears unlikely in today's resale market that you will even have a sale below that price. Moreover, Disney will not necessarily exercise the right even when the contract price is deemed too low--it would likely give the seller and buyer the opportunity to bring price in line with what Disney expects. Also, dealing with timeshare brokers who were concerned that one of my resale purchases might not pass muster because of lower than floor price, the deal was negotiated to a somewhat higher point price while the seller paid closing costs and absorbed annual dues. Thus, there are ways, once a deal is agreed to to accomplish the same deal at the higher price that Disney will accept. In other words, do not assume that Disney is out there buying many points through right of first refusal. The event is likely rare.

 

[DVCajun]

This is really interesting as I have been tempted to call Disney about getting an add on to our points at BWV as well. I wonder how many folks are on that waiting list for 50 pt add ons??

Re: this deal-- pass. I think the Seller will discover that they're dreaming too big. If they're not, then more power to them! BWV is pretty popular. I'm just glad I already have my 300 points there!!! We "almost" did our 150 pt add on at another resort just so we would have that booking advantage but I decided against it because I love BWV so much. GOOD decision!

 

[Geyser Gazer]

Hi chris1gill,

If 200 BWV points are a must, how about picking up a decently priced 200 point resale contract (much easier to find than 50 points) and selling your 150 point contract. This would be a little beyond my comfort level but might work for you.

PS: The resale market would just love you for this!

 

[chris1gill]

Believe me, I've thought about picking up a 200 point resale!!!

Hey, if there's anyone out there that wants to trade down from their 200 point package to a 150 point package + cash, let me know! That would work for me too

*****UPDATED

I just got a call, the 50 point contract sold for full price... 70 dollars per point for a contract that doesn't have points for nearly two years... That's a new one to me...

 

[Shamus]

From what I've noticed the biggest discrepancies with resale prices result from the values applied to Banked and Used (Borrowed) points by the two parties involved and the spreading out of realtor and closing costs over the number of points. The greater value applied to points and the difference between the number of points creates a larger spread between the asking price and the buying price.

Lets compare this 50 pt. Contract to the 600 pt. Contract listed at the Timeshare Store. Both are June use Year and are listed at $70 per point. The 50 has a total of 87 points used while the 600 has an additional 600 points banked.

Apply a value of $5 to each banked/used point and the 50 contract values at $78.70/pt [ (3500+435)/50 ] while the 600 contract values at $65.00/pt [ (42000-3000)/600 ]. Change the banked/used point value to $10 each and you have contract values $87.40 vs. $60.00 per point.

As stated by others before: Small contracts sold through realtors are at an additional disadvantage.

Since the seller of a small contract has fewer points over which to spread the realtor costs he has to keep his price per point higher. $1,000 in realtor fees equals a loss of $20/pt on his 50 point contract. Meanwhile the buyer of a small contract has fewer points to spread his closing costs over. $500 in costs adds $10/pt to his contract. That's a $30 spread. Even if you double each of their expenses ($2000 & $1000) the 600 point contract only affects the seller by $3.33/pt and the buyer by $1.66 or a $5 spread.

Using the above numbers: If the seller of the 50 point contract puts a $0 value on his used points he still looks at he deal only netting him $50/pt. While the buyer may apply $10 value to the used points and comes up with a cost of $97.40.

I know this example is at the extreme but I hope it shows how the value of banked/used points and the size of the contract is what generally makes or breaks a resale deal.

In conclusion : When I apply my numbers to the 50 point contract as offered above I would still pass it up in a heartbeat.

 

[chris1gill]

Your numbers really confused me Shamus I think I was able to stick with you though... it did take a couple of re-reads though LOL...

Thanks for agreeing with me though I'm sure someone was happy with the package... but I still believe a 50 point contract will come up with points to go with it!! I'll pay handsomely for that one though inkbounc

 

[Caskbill]

Shamus, the questions involved with determining the true value of a resale contract, based on size, and banked/borrowed points, can be difficult and confusing.

I think your reply was excellent and really puts into perspective the enormous impact any one of these three factors can impart, both to the buyer's costs, and the seller's costs/profits.

Well Done !

 

[gscott8075]

Buying and reselling - very expensive.

After my recent, well documented stay at HH, my wife and I wanted to get 300 points at HHI and sell our 200 points at OKW. In the end, we added on at HH - and it saved us a bunch over doing the buy and sell.

Here's the skinny from the two resale companies...

1. Minimum commission $1500. That's $10 per point on a 150 point contract.

2. Regardless of what is listed, OKW is going for $63-$66 depending on points banked.

3. South Carolina has some of the highest timeshare closing costs as attorneys are required to do the filing. Typical Florida DVC is $400 to close, S.C. is $700-800.

I know you are speaking of BWV, but I think it might cost you more to do the buy and sell then to wait for an addon.

Your cost for the trans if the point value on the buy and sell are the same is almost $2000 to wind up with almost what you have now.