UPDATE pg 11, post 155, CONAN is COMING TO TBS!!

[momrek06]

NBC's new late-night schedule: Brilliant by accident?
by Ken Tucker

NBC is the media’s pinata, slammed for everything from screwing up the 10 p.m. original-drama slot to ruining Conan O’Brien’s sleep. But in its own accidental, cynical, necessity-as-mother-of-invention way, NBC’s new late-night schedule could really work for the network. Here’s why:

Presuming Conan agrees to all this (and I think he’d be making a big mistake going over to Fox), we’ll soon have an NBC late-night schedule with Jay on from 11:35 to around to 12:05, and The Tonight Show from 12:05 to 1:05. Jimmy Fallon will rub his eyes and broadcast from 1:05 to 2:05. This is a minor revolution in late-night: No network has ever timed its shows to air in this formation.

You can read the rest of the article here....
http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/01/11/jay-leno-conan-david-letterman-craig-ferguson/


I would rather Jay Leno from 11:35-12:35am, Conan from 12:35-1:35am and give Fallon the 1/2 hour slot from 1:35-2am slot.

 

[bicker]

Westly-C on AVS Forum finally pieced together the entire situation for me, this morning:

The Jay Leno Show has been performing pretty close to expectations, in just about every way. So what's happening is not any type of reflection of failure to achieve objectives. Instead, it has been clear that the show has been canceled due to the bad PR that folks who don't like the idea of Jay Leno at 10PM every night have been able to inspire. The most likely parties were the affiliates -- they have been, as anticipated since the announcement of Jay Leno at 10PM, the most significantly adversely affected, with the ratings for the late local news, in many markets, really being harmed.

What Westly-C pointed out was why it is so important to take this action, to quash this bad PR that people who don't like Jay Leno at 10PM have been able to create: As you probably know, Comcast is in the process of acquiring NBC Universal from GE. The bad PR could be readily turned into political pressure to impose more draconian restrictions on the acquisition than otherwise. That impact would so significant and so long-lasting, that it trumps practically any short-term considerations that would otherwise justify ignoring the bad PR.

 

[Imzadi]

What a mess NBC is in.

No, what a mess GE (General Electric) is in.

GE owns NBC. I unfortunately own a lot of GE stock. I HATE GE. I know a lot about that company since my Dad worked there for decades and was routinely given stocks, (the way Starbucks gives stocks to their employees.) I've observed for decades their MANY blunders. I've been working long & hard to dump my GE stocks. It only ever goes down and stays at a new, all time low for months to YEARS at a time. <insert contemptuous hiss> That makes it hard to get rid of. My mother no longer has a retirement fund. I sold some last week. It went up after the announcement that Leno is going back to 11:35.

GE should never have bought NBC. They really only know how to make lightbulbs and that era has long since been over. They thought they could be another Disney, owning ABC, but they failed to realize, Disney is actually IN the entertainment business and understands what people want. They even know how to hire execs who understand that.



Here is the latest financial article from MarketWatch:

http://research.tdameritrade.com/public/stocks/news/story.asp?docKey=4018-74AA31C5DE544F7D95EB60BCF49FBC5E-03KQ5HJP7LC4DDOS83UMMENCB6

"NBC's Leno fiasco shaping up as one for the books

5:55p ET January 11, 2010 (MarketWatch)

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- NBC's failed attempt to plug Jay Leno into primetime five nights a week will go down as one of the biggest blunders in television history, experts said Monday.

After NBC controversially moved Leno out of his "Tonight Show" slot to a 10 p.m. program five nights a week, affiliates found that the show provided a poor lead-in to their local-news programs, which depend heavily on popular shows but instead got sharp ratings declines coming after Leno.

"The average ratings decline for local newscasts around the country was probably 25% to 30%," said Bill Carroll, vice president and director of programming at the media-buying firm Katz Television Group. "And in some cases ratings were down by 35% to 40%. So, that became too much for the network to ignore. And of course it was affecting NBC's owned-and-operated stations, as well."

The affiliates pressured NBC to move Leno back to 11:35. At first, the network would say merely that it sought to "improve" the comedy hour at 10:00. But local stations wouldn't let up, and NBC decided that Leno will return to the later slot after the Winter Olympics conclude next month.

NBC had no illusions that the 10:00 Leno program would get huge ratings, according to Brian Hughes, vice president and manager of audience analysis at Magna Global.

"They were very clear from the beginning that it was about cutting costs, not ratings," Hughes said. "The only thing that was surprising was that the show got canceled in five months. We thought it would last a year."

The seeds for trouble may have been planted as early as 2004. At that time, NBC, a unit of General Electric , had promised Conan O'Brien, the long-time host of "Late Night With Conan O'Brien," that he would become host of "The Tonight Show" when Leno exited that program in May 2009, according to Walter Podrazik, co-author of "Watching TV: Six Decades of American Television."

"This was a network afraid to undo a situation it had set in motion five years before. In today's changing media environment, that's forever," said Podrazik said in comments sent by e-mail.

He said NBC network wanted to avoid the turmoil that resulted when, upon the surprise announcement of Johnny Carson's retirement in 1992, it ended up losing the 12:30 slot's host, David Letterman.

Letterman had long expected NBC to give him the "Tonight Show" gig when Carson left. But when the show was given to Leno, Letterman angrily bolted NBC and went on to host his own 11:30 show on CBS.

"It may be they were never going to be able to hold onto the whole package,"Podrazik said. "Conan O'Brien was getting restless and, short of the 'Tonight Show,' there was nothing they really could offer him ... This may have been a case in which it would have been better to let Conan go or let Jay go.

"Conan would not have had the general public connection to take on Leno directly," Podrazik added. "Even Jay walking elsewhere would have been to a position of lesser reach than the established 'Tonight Show.' "

Aside from what the Leno fiasco says about NBC's inability to assess the late-night landscape accurately, it showed a fundamental misunderstanding of network television, Podrazik said.

"NBC couldn't understand the definition of what a network can credibly [air] in primetime, or the relationships between itself and the creative community. It sent the message to [producers of dramas] that five less hours were available," the author said.

Since the 2004-05 season, NBC has been in fourth place among the major broadcast networks.

Its unprecedented decision to move Leno into a prime-time time slot Monday through Friday was seen as a simple cost-cutting measure in an industry in which scripted dramas are expensive to produce.

But NBC executives said the move was made to take advantage of a renewed appetite for "live, topical programming" after ratings for "Saturday Night Live" surged during the 2008 presidential election cycle."​

 

[Imzadi]

Bicker NBC did make a statement

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...ws%2Fentertainment+%28Text+-+Entertainment%29

Umm, your quoting FOX for news on NBC. Fox is not a reliable source to begin with. But, of course, they will try to make NBC look bad when thjey have no real inside info to the innter workings inside NBC.

Since they are probably in a unique position to possibly get one of the hosts from this debacle, (if one wants' to jump networks,) they will probably say anything to help that cause.

 

[daisax]

Conan just announced that he will quit if they bump him to 12:05.

 

[bicker]

Here is the latest financial article from MarketWatch:

http://research.tdameritrade.com/public/stocks/news/story.asp?docKey=4018-74AA31C5DE544F7D95EB60BCF49FBC5E-03KQ5HJP7LC4DDOS83UMMENCB6

"NBC's Leno fiasco shaping up as one for the books

5:55p ET January 11, 2010 (MarketWatch)
​

Isn't 20/20 hindsight nice?

Newsweek put it best, today:

Contrary to the conventional wisdom, The Jay Leno Show wasn't a terrible idea. It was a good idea made under a set of terrible circumstances.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/230397

The world of television is changing. Some changes are accepted; others aren't; and the difference typically has nothing to do with whether or not they're good ideas. It has to do with luck, more than anything else.

Anyway, in more recent news, Conan O'Brien has said that he won't do the Tonight Show at 12:05 am.
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.c...-says-he-wont-do-tonight-show-following-leno/

@daisax: He didn't really say "quit".

 

[bicker]

Conan just announced that he will quit if they bump him to 12:05.

As I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, he didn't actually say "quit". I wanted to expand on that a bit:

In the law of remedy, there is a concept called "specific performance", i.e., an order that requires a party to perform a specific act, usually what is stated in a contract. There are a number of conditions where specific performance is precluded. One of those exceptions is when the act is a personal service, such as performing on stage. So they cannot make Conan do the show. All they can do is try to sue him for money damages. I think, at this point, NBC would be better off giving him lots of money to just go away quietly.

What we're seeing, here, is "negotiation by media manipulation".

 

[daisax]

He might be holding them over a barrel for more money, or he might be sincerely refusing to budge on the time slot issue. He can get a show on any number of other networks that will probably do as well (with fewer content restrictions).

If he feels they're destroying the franchise he thought he had inherited, he may be angry enough to pack up his things and go, especially if he feels that he was already in a downward spiral.

If I tell my boss I will quit if he moves my office down the hall, it's still an announcement that I will quit, whether or not I secretly intend it as a salary renegotiation technique.

 

[bicker]

He might be holding them over a barrel for more money, or he might be sincerely refusing to budge on the time slot issue.

He's a professional. He knows that they can move his show to 12:05 am (according to the best available info on his contract). There is no "refusing to budge" -- they didn't ask.

He can get a show on any number of other networks that will probably do as well (with fewer content restrictions).

If NBC will let him out of his contract. Fox will not hire him if NBC then has a legitimate cause of action against Fox.

If he feels they're destroying the franchise he thought he had inherited, he may be angry enough to pack up his things and go, especially if he feels that he was already in a downward spiral.

I don't think anyone should be snowed by his tugging of heartstrings. The show was not bequeathed to him by a loved one or life-long mentor. He's just an employee.

If I tell my boss I will quit if he moves my office down the hall, it's still an announcement that I will quit, whether or not I secretly intend it as a salary renegotiation technique.

He didn't tell his boss that he would quit if he was moved to 12:05 am: He made a public statement. See the difference?

 

[bicker]

Another article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/business/media/12conan.html

NBC wouldn't say that moving O'Brien to 12:05 am isn't a breach of contract (i.e., they wouldn't say anything in regard to that) unless there was a pretty legitimate case to be made that it isn't.

I also note how O'Brien is reacting from an emotional standpoint, not really making any strong statements about contracts or legalities.

 

[Imzadi]

and the difference typically has nothing to do with whether or not they're good ideas. It has to do with luck, more than anything else.

That's not necessarily true. That kind of thinking leaves people kind of powerless and at effect. It also doesn't explain the success of ABC, which has been the #1 or #2 network, of the big 3, for decades, even before Disney owned it.

It also doesn't explain the powerhouse: HBO, with their constant ground breaking series: The Sopranos, Sex & The City, True Blood, etc.

These two networks have been consistently "pretty lucky." Where luck plays a part is in knowing to hire creative individuals as execs who know how to think out of the box and have an intuition which risks to take. Then knowing how to push their "luck."

GE has always been a practical company. Thomas Edison, was probably their last, real creative innovator. GE makes practical items, light bulbs, electrical appliances and items, their expertise hasn't even in electronic and especially not computerised items. Their left brained thinking has made them often too slow, and well behind the times in coming up with innovations. (Philips Co. actually puts out a better florescent ligh bulb. )

If you look at a stock chart, charting GE's financial ups & downs, the heyday for GE has long since past. <insert funeral smiley> Their decline started, on their own, even before 9/11. (Which totally toppled their stock.) They are a company living off a previous reputation. It's kind of like saying, "Well, the Titanic was unsinkable for a time!"

They don't even know how to talk to a creative individual or can recognise how to HIRE a creative exec who knows how to successfully think outside of the box, ad push the envelope.

Their acquisition of NBC was probably due to some executive, left brained, accountant Bozo, who probably said, "Hey look at the graphs & numbers, we should get this company."

It never occurred to anyone to ask, "Do we have the creativity to run a TV network? Can we even recognise a creative idea if it hit us? It's more than about numbers."

Disney has their Imaginarium.

Google hires the best & brightest. Then they provide an exceptional work environment, gives them games to play at work, feeds them for free, and invites their families to visit as often as they want, and feeds them too. They foster creativity, fun & passion.

To quote the 9/11 Commission's findings on the inability to prevent the 9/11 attacks, which are just as applicable to GE's owning of NBC, it is "A failure of imagination."

GE should stick to practical goods.

 

[bicker]

That's not necessarily true. That kind of thinking leaves people kind of powerless and at effect.

In this regard, individuals are powerless. But you've completely misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying that what people like to watch is random. I was saying that what radical cost-cutting changes people will be willing to accept is random. Read over what you replied to again, and you'll see that you totally missed the point.

It also doesn't explain the success of ABC, which has been the #1 or #2 network, of the big 3, for decades, even before Disney owned it.

Uh, no. ABC spent many years as #3 of 3.

It also doesn't explain the powerhouse: HBO, with their constant ground breaking series: The Sopranos, Sex & The City, True Blood, etc.

The nudity explains it.

Seriously, HBO actually had its share of crappy shows. Remember Flight of the Conchords? Indeed, many folks are saying that Showtime had taken over the original series crown, among premium channels, with Dexter. However, even Showtime has had its share of failures, like Meadowlands. You cannot rely on the preferences of the American television viewer -- you just can't.

And by comparison, NBC had a number of years where it was far and away the best television network, with the strongest Thursday night line up (remember -- Thursday night is the most lucrative, and therefore most competitive, night of television). In the 1988-89 season (and yes, this was while it was owned by the GE Company, you so unfairly maligned), NBC, had 18 shows in the top 30. That year, NBC won every week in the ratings for over a full year, an achievement not since duplicated. Indeed, most of the criticisms of NBC now highlight how far it has fallen.

I think you're really off-track here, both with regard to what I was actually saying, and with what you've highlighted as support for your objections.

 

[dinahghost]

poor leno...but who knows what'll happen to conan

 

[momrek06]

Conan makes a statement.

Conan O'Brien Says He Won't Move
By Brian Wallace
Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:51 PM

The murky mess that is NBC's late-night schedule got a little clearer today, as Conan O'Brien announced he would not host "The Tonight Show" at 12:05am to accomodate moving a shortened "Jay Leno Show" to 11:35pm.

O'Brien, who took over the "Tonight Show" reins from Leno on June 1, issued a statement in which he explained "The Tonight Show" would no longer be "The Tonight Show" if it were moved back, and said he wanted no part in damaging what he considered the "greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting."

The question of what's next for the veteran comedy writer and 16-year host of NBC's "Late Night" remains unclear. O'Brien addressed talk of a jump to Fox by saying: "I currently have no other offer and honestly have no idea what happens next."



Read O'Brien's full statement below:


People of Earth:



In the last few days, I've been getting a lot of sympathy calls, and I want to start by making it clear that no one should waste a second feeling sorry for me. For 17 years, I've been getting paid to do what I love most and, in a world with real problems, I've been absurdly lucky. That said, I've been suddenly put in a very public predicament and my bosses are demanding an immediate decision.



Six years ago, I signed a contract with NBC to take over The Tonight Show in June of 2009. Like a lot of us, I grew up watching Johnny Carson every night and the chance to one day sit in that chair has meant everything to me. I worked long and hard to get that opportunity, passed up far more lucrative offers, and since 2004 I have spent literally hundreds of hours thinking of ways to extend the franchise long into the future. It was my mistaken belief that, like my predecessor, I would have the benefit of some time and, just as important, some degree of ratings support from the prime-time schedule. Building a lasting audience at 11:30 is impossible without both.



But sadly, we were never given that chance. After only seven months, with my Tonight Show in its infancy, NBC has decided to react to their terrible difficulties in prime-time by making a change in their long-established late night schedule.



Last Thursday, NBC executives told me they intended to move the Tonight Show to 12:05 to accommodate the Jay Leno Show at 11:35. For 60 years the Tonight Show has aired immediately following the late local news. I sincerely believe that delaying the Tonight Show into the next day to accommodate another comedy program will seriously damage what I consider to be the greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting. The Tonight Show at 12:05 simply isn't the Tonight Show. Also, if I accept this move I will be knocking the Late Night show, which I inherited from David Letterman and passed on to Jimmy Fallon, out of its long-held time slot. That would hurt the other NBC franchise that I love, and it would be unfair to Jimmy.



So it has come to this: I cannot express in words how much I enjoy hosting this program and what an enormous personal disappointment it is for me to consider losing it. My staff and I have worked unbelievably hard and we are very proud of our contribution to the legacy of The Tonight Show. But I cannot participate in what I honestly believe is its destruction. Some people will make the argument that with DVRs and the Internet a time slot doesn't matter. But with the Tonight Show, I believe nothing could matter more.



There has been speculation about my going to another network but, to set the record straight, I currently have no other offer and honestly have no idea what happens next. My hope is that NBC and I can resolve this quickly so that my staff, crew, and I can do a show we can be proud of, for a company that values our work.



Have a great day and, for the record, I am truly sorry about my hair; it's always been that way.



Yours,



Conan

 

[bicker]

The more time goes on, the more information leaks out indicating that Conan O'Brien doesn't have any contractual guarantees that his program will be broadcast at any specific time. His fans' claims, as I alluded to yesterday, all seem to emanate from an appeal to personal preference rather than from anything actually promised to him. Yesterday, several Conan fans on various blogs and message boards tried to convince all who would read why everyone involved in this should defer to Conan's presumed entitlements, some referring to TMZ as one source for the foundation of their arguments in that regard, despite other news sources saying that NBC would not be in breach of contract with the moves they're planning on making. Now even TMZ has joined the New York Times and Reuters and granting that fact.

 

[wvjules]

I think The Tonight Show would have been better if NBC left the Prime-time programming alone instead of making it a daily Leno-a-thon. Everyone turns NBC off at 10 now.

 

[AustinTink]

I think The Tonight Show would have been better if NBC left the Prime-time programming alone instead of making it a daily Leno-a-thon. Everyone turns NBC off at 10 now.

That sums it up.

 

[Jennasis]

Why can't Leno have the later spot after Conan?

 

[bicker]

That sums it up.

That's really not clear. Scripted dramas are really expensive. Viewers have so many new choices that their attention is being split many more ways than before. In addition, for the first time in history, the amount of money advertisers are willing to pay to advertise to television views has fallen, and many experts believe this is the tip of the iceberg. So there just isn't the kind of money to be made anymore.

This why networks are trying to find new ways of programming their schedule without incurring the high cost of scripted programming to fill every slot. They've already done some similar things in the past. For example, they've done pretty-much the same thing with Saturday nights as NBC has tried to do with 10PM (and indeed, effectively, what Fox does with 10PM), i.e., fill that time period with programming that is much less expensive than the first-run of scripted dramas. While people probably didn't like what they did to Saturday night, either, it didn't make the news, because the first network that did it wasn't in the process of being acquired by a major cable company at the time, so there wasn't much PR pressure to wield.

 

[bicker]

Why can't Leno have the later spot after Conan?

For starters, Leno's better than that. Leno regularly beat Letterman, whereas Letterman now regularly beats Conan O'Brien. It doesn't make sense to put your stronger programming in the less lucrative time slot.