Upcoming flight cancellations

[NAB]

I’m confused will flights be cancelled at these? Shut right down? My husband thinks he read it won’t affect International flights which we are from Canada.

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

EC 261 will NOT cover non European based airlines (United, American, Jet Blue, etc. )

This is wrong

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm

EU air passenger rights apply:
If your flight is within the EU and is operated either by an EU or a non-EU airline
If your flight arrives in the EU from outside the EU and is operated by an EU airline
If your flight departs from the EU to a non-EU country operated by an EU or a non-EU airline

EU means the 27 EU countries, including Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Mayotte, Réunion, Saint Barthélemy, Saint-Martin (French Antilles), the Azores, Madeira and the Canary Islands, but not the Faeroe Islands. EU rules also apply to flights to and from Iceland, Norway and Switzerland.

EC 261 most definitely does cover United, American, Jet Blue transatlantic flights.

 

[Girl of the South]

“If your flight arrives in the EU from outside the EU and is operated by an EU airline”

I am saying that if your flight arrives in the EU from outside the EU but is NOT operated by an EU based airline, EC261 will not apply.

United is not an EU based airline. It’s a US based airline.

“

• If you are traveling from a European Union airport on any airline
• If you are traveling to a European Union airport on a European Union-based airline

In other words:

• If you’re flying from Frankfurt to Newark, EC261 would apply regardless of whether you’re traveling with Lufthansa or United
• If you’re flying from Newark to Frankfurt, EC261 would only apply on Lufthansa, and not on United (since United isn’t a European Union-based airline)”

It really doesn’t matter at the moment. The Fantasy is headed back to the US si at least no DCL cruises in Europe in the near future.

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

I’m confused will flights be cancelled at these? Shut right down? My husband thinks he read it won’t affect International flights which we are from Canada.

My understanding is that they will have their air traffic cut by 10% at these airports. I can't say if that means just incoming flights, just outgoing flights or a combination of the two on how they get to the reduced number. The changes should start on Friday and are to be phased in, with the full 10% reduction reached by next week (again don't know by when next week).

I would expect this to affect international and domestic flights.

Psy

 

[lanejudy]

This is wrong

You didn't pick up @Girl of the South 's full quote, you cut off the last 4 words:

EC 261 will NOT cover non European based airlines (United, American, Jet Blue, etc. ) flying TO the EU.

United, American, JetBlue are only covered by EC261 if the flight originates in the EU. Flights on these airlines into the EU are not covered. And the "extraordinary circumstances" clause is quite likely to be invoked.

 

[sponica]

I’m confused will flights be cancelled at these? Shut right down? My husband thinks he read it won’t affect International flights which we are from Canada.

Based on the self reported airline info I'm seeing, international flights won't be affected (yet). But the only way to reduce volume is to cancel flights.

OP: I think the airlines will try to walk the tightrope between proactively cancelling and hoping the issue resolves itself.

 

[DCLMP]

You didn't pick up @Girl of the South 's full quote, you cut off the last 4 words:


United, American, JetBlue are only covered by EC261 if the flight originates in the EU. Flights on these airlines into the EU are not covered. And the "extraordinary circumstances" clause is quite likely to be invoked.

I'm not sure why this would even matter. Great you get a refund, but your still not getting where you want to go if your flight cancels.

 

[DCLMP]

Based on the self reported airline info I'm seeing, international flights won't be affected (yet). But the only way to reduce volume is to cancel flights.

OP: I think the airlines will try to walk the tightrope between proactively cancelling and hoping the issue resolves itself.

You would hope long haul flights would get priority. They carry more people and they don't have other options. They can't drive, take a train etc.

 

[juxtapose]

You would hope long haul flights would get priority. They carry more people and they don't have other options. They can't drive, take a train etc.

You would hope, but if they try to equally cut among airlines, that won't be the case. We use Denver and there are multiple flights a day there from cities you can easily drive to/from, I wish they'd make those be cancelled first (along with small commercial and private planes) and allow all the longer/larger flights to stay but it appears they might just tell all airlines to cut 10%.

 

[Keladry84]

You would hope, but if they try to equally cut among airlines, that won't be the case. We use Denver and there are multiple flights a day there from cities you can easily drive to/from, I wish they'd make those be cancelled first (along with small commercial and private planes) and allow all the longer/larger flights to stay but it appears they might just tell all airlines to cut 10%.

And what of all of the people from those places who are connecting for a longer trip through Denver? They can't just hop in the car and drive the full way either.

If a flight in a smaller airport gets cancelled, there are few alternate options - there might only be 1-2 flights scheduled per day altogether. One can't assume that they can just "hop in the car and drive" either - Not everyone has access to a car, can drive, or has the ability and/or time in the schedule to make that connecting flight by driving to Denver.

Long-haul connections on the other hand often connect two larger airports that have many different alternate flights or ways to go between the two. Yes it's messy, but there's also more options to recover.

Any cancelled flight will heavily impact people. I would hate to have to be the person/people deciding which flights will be cancelled, but no, it absolutely should not be just cancel all the short flights because people can drive instead. No matter what decisions are made, people will be impacted and will have difficulty executing their travel plans.

 

[juxtapose]

And what of all of the people from those places who are connecting for a longer trip through Denver? They can't just hop in the car and drive the full way either.

If a flight in a smaller airport gets cancelled, there are few alternate options - there might only be 1-2 flights scheduled per day altogether. One can't assume that they can just "hop in the car and drive" either - Not everyone has access to a car, can drive, or has the ability and/or time in the schedule to make that connecting flight by driving to Denver.

Long-haul connections on the other hand often connect two larger airports that have many different alternate flights or ways to go between the two. Yes it's messy, but there's also more options to recover.

Any cancelled flight will heavily impact people. I would hate to have to be the person/people deciding which flights will be cancelled, but no, it absolutely should not be just cancel all the short flights because people can drive instead. No matter what decisions are made, people will be impacted and will have difficulty executing their travel plans.

The long hauls at Denver are once per day maximum and impact 300+ people, they aren't covered by other routes. The short flight I'm talking about is a 60-minute drive and can be traveled by public bus, uber, etc (airlines have actually bused people between them before when there were issues). I imagine they will prioritize larger planes with more people just due to the fact that having to reschedule or cancel 50 people is way cheaper and easier for any airline than 400 people.

 

[jennypenny]

@OP you have the double issue of flying out of EWR which has it's own underlying problems. Changes are free today so can you switch to PHL? Their flights have been delayed but cancellations have been minimal.

Airlines are saying that non-hub flights will be impacted first, then hubs, then international last (I wonder if that's for legal reasons?). Plane positioning is probably a key component also.

 

[DCLMP]

You would hope, but if they try to equally cut among airlines, that won't be the case. We use Denver and there are multiple flights a day there from cities you can easily drive to/from, I wish they'd make those be cancelled first (along with small commercial and private planes) and allow all the longer/larger flights to stay but it appears they might just tell all airlines to cut 10%.

Airlines are going to try with the least disruptions to their system. Southwest excluded they all use the hub and spoke model.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

Just a heads up, sorry to everyone who had planned trips

If you are thinking about a trip...I would wait

The current administration has no problem making us suffer and things will only get worst and even if the people are blaming them, the government is trying to push this on the side with less power.

So I think this will last into December if not longer

 

[holula]

I am thinking “air traffic control delays” or “strikes outside the airline” might negate compensation in this case. Certainly “Extraordinary Circumstances”.

You are correct. I was delayed from Santorini to UK a few years ago due to an ATC strike in Greece. EU261 did not apply as it’s not in the airline’s control.

 

[goofystitch]

I thought we weren't supposed to get political on the DIS

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Long-haul connections on the other hand often connect two larger airports that have many different alternate flights or ways to go between the two. Yes it's messy, but there's also more options to recover.

Like another poster mentioned long-hauls are usually done with larger planes and thus a larger amount of passengers impacted at once. Absolutely the case when you're talking about international flights.

A smaller passenger capacity plane or a lesser used route makes far more sense in the respects of disruption even if it leaves those passengers with less options if they are in a lesser used route. And it's not the case that there are many alternate flights especially when you consider things like non-stop vs connections. An example we have a flight to Milan next year from JFK for example of which there may be a decent amount of flight options but only 2 non-stops that day (both leaving early and then late evening the night before) both operated by Delta with the rest mostly operated by partner airlines (KLM, Air France, something Republic, etc)

At the end of the day airlines don't use as a general thing things like rental car abilities or distance to another destination in terms of what they use as a metric for cancellations. On their end having to re-accommodate a smaller amount of passengers is easier and less impactful to them overall.