Unsolicited school pictures that you have to pay for or return

[mill4023]

I think this is the first time I've had one of my threads brought back from the dead years later.

At least one poster has said that keeping the pictures without paying is stealing. That's probably one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a long time.

If someone gives me something I didn't ask for, it's a gift. That's just common sense and it also happens to be the law (federal in the case of items mailed and state in every state I'm aware of)

NC General Statutes:
Unless otherwise agreed, where unsolicited goods are delivered to a person, he has a right to refuse to accept delivery of the goods and is not bound to return such goods to the sender. If such unsolicited goods are addressed to and intended for the recipient, they shall be deemed a gift to the recipient, who may use them or dispose of them in any manner without any obligation to the sender. (1969, c. 70, s. 1; 1977, c. 498.)

Some posters have asked what kind of message it is sending your kids if you keep the photos and don't pay for them. Well, it's sending them the message that you don't have to be manipulated by companies trying to take advantage of you. And it's sending the message that we should all follow the laws of the land.

I have no problems whatsoever with school fundraisers. We get things from the school all the time with requests for money for different fundraisers. Some of them we contribute to and some we don't. What I do have a problem with is the school participating in a scam where they send you things you didn't ask for, then say you have to pay for it or return it.

This may be a moot point for us, because I don't remember having this happen in the last couple of years. Perhaps the school got enough complaints from parents that they finally put a stop to it. Or maybe the school decided that lying and saying you are required to do something that the law states you are not required to do wasn't sending a very good message to the students.

 

[MSLRAC]

I think this is the first time I've had one of my threads brought back from the dead years later. At least one poster has said that keeping the pictures without paying is stealing. That's probably one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a long time. If someone gives me something I didn't ask for, it's a gift. That's just common sense and it also happens to be the law (federal in the case of items mailed and state in every state I'm aware of) NC General Statutes: Unless otherwise agreed, where unsolicited goods are delivered to a person, he has a right to refuse to accept delivery of the goods and is not bound to return such goods to the sender. If such unsolicited goods are addressed to and intended for the recipient, they shall be deemed a gift to the recipient, who may use them or dispose of them in any manner without any obligation to the sender. (1969, c. 70, s. 1; 1977, c. 498.) Some posters have asked what kind of message it is sending your kids if you keep the photos and don't pay for them. Well, it's sending them the message that you don't have to be manipulated by companies trying to take advantage of you. And it's sending the message that we should all follow the laws of the land. I have no problems whatsoever with school fundraisers. We get things from the school all the time with requests for money for different fundraisers. Some of them we contribute to and some we don't. What I do have a problem with is the school participating in a scam where they send you things you didn't ask for, then say you have to pay for it or return it. This may be a moot point for us, because I don't remember having this happen in the last couple of years. Perhaps the school got enough complaints from parents that they finally put a stop to it. Or maybe the school decided that lying and saying you are required to do something that the law states you are not required to do wasn't sending a very good message to the students.

And I think this statement is the dumbest thing that I have heard on here in a long time. If you don't want the pictures, send them back. It is not that hard! It takes all of two second to put it back in your kid's bag. Sorry but in my book, you are stealing those pictures if you don't return them.

I seriously do not see how you think it is a scam or that the school is lying or manipulating you by sending them home. We got a simple letter with them stating the cost and asking us to please return the unwanted pictures or pay for them by X date.

But honestly, if it is such a big deal, why not opt your kid out of the pictures from the start and avoid it all? Oh wait, that would be too easy and leave you nothing to complain about.

 

[mom2rtk]

We still get them every spring. With a note telling us it is coming.

Yep, my kids brought them home a couple of weeks ago. We bought the laminate page from each and sent the rest back. For yearbook pictures, we just get proofs sent home and can order from there.

I'm surprised many schools are still doing this. Wouldn't people just scan and copy them at home and send the originals back?

 

[Kimberlyann11]

Keeping the pictures without paying for them might not technically be stealing, but it's unethical. I wouldn't trust anyone who would do something like that. It would just be a matter of time before they thought up some justification for screwing me over or taking something of mine.

 

[brookmey]

I'm curious. Does anyone reading along actually still get an unsolicited package of finished pictures sent home any more? Or are we arguing over something completely moot?

My kids' school still does this. We get a notice and order form for pictures in the fall, but not for the spring. Spring pictures are on the official school calendar but there are no reminders or order forms sent home like in the fall, so I always forget about them until my kids bring them home. It's a full package of pictures and if you don't pay or send them back the school sends notes home. I hate that the school does this, especially when it's unsolicited and we're not told in advance so we could choose to opt out.

 

[Art 1]

For decades schools have done this, parents either sent them back or paid for them. Why is it now so difficult to do this. Why do so many parents want to fight with teachers and with schools. Is this a Dis thing?

 

[aprilgail2]

\

Yep, our Elementary school does. We get these special magnets and gift tags with our kids photos and other stupid stuff. I agree-- I hate it too.


The photo company doesn't, but the school does. They will hold it over you until you kids graduates (and refuse to give their diploma and transcripts until you pay all past debts.)

Our school just won't give your child a yearbook at the end of the school year if you did not return the pictures- so when all the other kids are having their yearbooks signed, the kids whose parents stole the pictures by not paying for them will just sit there with no yearbook.

 

[nugov2]

And I think this statement is the dumbest thing that I have heard on here in a long time. If you don't want the pictures, send them back. It is not that hard! It takes all of two second to put it back in your kid's bag. Sorry but in my book, you are stealing those pictures if you don't return them.

I seriously do not see how you think it is a scam or that the school is lying or manipulating you by sending them home. We got a simple letter with them stating the cost and asking us to please return the unwanted pictures or pay for them by X date.

But honestly, if it is such a big deal, why not opt your kid out of the pictures from the start and avoid it all? Oh wait, that would be too way and leave you nothing to complain about.

Exactly, seriously how hard is it to return them? Really you don't even have to take it out of the folder...just leave them in there. I find it crazy people would steal pictures to prove a point. Yes, you can keep them. Our school will not charge if you claim you returned them, but do you really feel good about yourself b/c you proved your point that technically you don't have to return them because they are a gift

 

[bcla]

Keeping the pictures without paying for them might not technically be stealing, but it's unethical. I wouldn't trust anyone who would do something like that. It would just be a matter of time before they thought up some justification for screwing me over or taking something of mine.

No - it's unethical to continue a business practice that this company (and others using the same pitch) probably know to be illegal, in hopes that it brings in revenue that might not otherwise be received if they had an ordering system that followed applicable law.

 

[bcla]

I'm just wondering - what's so hard about a business understanding fairly basic consumer protection laws in the areas where they do business, and just FOLLOW THEM? So it's OK for a business owner to break the law provided their attorneys tell them that there's a minimal chance that it's going to bite them hard? What I'm hearing here is a rationalization for a business to not follow the law. If you feel so strongly about "doing the right thing" then why not advocate for following the law? Some of these laws are over 40 years old.

Because sending unsolicited photos is deliberate business decision where they know they can (and I'm going to say what it is) lie that they have to be returned if not paid for.

And there are many laws that would describe this.

Like Texas:

§ 35.45. DELIVERY OF UNSOLICITED GOODS. (a) Unless
otherwise agreed, if unsolicited goods are delivered to a person,
the person:
(1) is entitled to refuse to accept delivery of the
goods; and
(2) is not required to return the goods to the sender.
(b) If unsolicited goods are either addressed to or intended
for the recipient, the goods are considered a gift to the recipient,
who may use them or dispose of them in any manner without obligation
to the sender.
(c) Unsolicited goods received due to a bona fide mistake
must be returned, but the burden of proof of the error is on the
sender.
(d) This section does not apply to goods substituted for
goods ordered or solicited by the recipient.

Washington state:

RCW 19.56.020
Unsolicited goods or services as gifts.

If unsolicited goods or services are provided to a person, the person has a right to accept the goods or services as a gift only, and is not bound to return the goods or services. Goods or services are not considered to have been solicited unless the recipient specifically requested, in an affirmative manner, the receipt of the goods or services according to the terms under which they are being offered. Goods or services are not considered to have been requested if a person fails to respond to an invitation to purchase the goods or services and the goods or services are provided notwithstanding. If the unsolicited goods or services are either addressed to or intended for the recipient, the recipient may use them or dispose of them in any manner without any obligation to the provider, and in any action for goods or services sold and delivered, or in any action for the return of the goods, it is a complete defense that the goods or services were provided voluntarily and that the defendant did not affirmatively order or request the goods or services, either orally or in writing.

Illinois:

(815 ILCS 430/0.01) (from Ch. 121 1/2, par. 350)
Sec. 0.01. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Unsolicited Merchandise Act.
(Source: P.A. 86-1324.)

(815 ILCS 430/1) (from Ch. 121 1/2, par. 351)
Sec. 1. Unless otherwise agreed, where unsolicited goods are delivered to a person, he has a right to refuse to accept delivery of the goods and is not bound to return such goods to the sender. If such unsolicited goods are either addressed to or intended for the recipient, they shall be deemed a gift to the recipient, who may use them or dispose of them in any manner without any obligation to the sender.
For purposes of this Act, "unsolicited goods" includes contractual obligations or other intangible property delivered to a person who has not ordered, solicited or agreed to purchase them, but shall not include tangible or intangible goods which are misdirected.

New York State:

NY Code - Section 5-332: Unsolicited and voluntarily sent merchandise deemed unconditional gift

1. No person, firm, partnership, association or corporation, or agent or employee thereof, shall, in any manner, or by any means, offer for sale goods, wares, or merchandise, where the offer includes the voluntary and unsolicited sending of such goods, wares, or merchandise not actually ordered or requested by the recipient, either orally or in writing. The receipt of any such goods, wares, or merchandise shall for all purposes be deemed an unconditional gift to the recipient who may use or dispose of such goods, wares, or merchandise in any manner he sees fit without any obligation on his part to the sender. If after any such receipt deemed to be an unconditional gift under this section, the sender continues to send bill statements or requests for payment with respect thereto, an action may be brought by the recipient to enjoin such conduct, in which action there may also be awarded reasonable attorney's fees and costs to the prevailing party. 2. If a person is a member of an organization which makes retail sales of any goods, wares, or merchandise to its members, and the person notifies the organization of his termination of membership by certified mail, return receipt requested, any unordered goods, wares, or merchandise which are sent to the person after thirty days following execution of the return receipt for the certified letter by the organization, shall for all purposes be deemed unconditional gifts to the person, who may use or dispose of the goods, wares, or merchandise in any manner he sees fit without any obligation on his part to the organization. If the termination of a person's membership in such organization breaches any agreement with the organization, nothing in this section shall relieve the person from liability for damages to which he might be otherwise subjected to pursuant to law, but he shall not be subject to any damages with respect to any goods, wares, or merchandise which are deemed unconditional gifts to him under this section. If after any receipt deemed to be an unconditional gift under this section, the sender continues to send bill statements or requests for payment with respect thereto, an action may be brought by the recipient to enjoin such conduct, in which action there may also be awarded reasonable attorneys' fees and costs to the prevailing party.

Florida:

570.545 Unsolicited goods; no obligation on part of recipient.—When unsolicited goods are delivered to a person, the person may refuse delivery of the goods, or, if the goods are delivered, the person is not obligated to return the goods to the sender. If unsolicited goods are either addressed to or intended for the recipient, they shall be deemed a gift and the recipient may use or dispose of them in any manner without obligation to the sender.

And Michigan:

UNSOLICITED MERCHANDISE Act 28 of 1969
AN ACT to prescribe the rights and duties of persons who send and receive unsolicited merchandise. History: 1969, Act 28, Imd. Eff. July 10, 1969.
The People of the State of Michigan enact:

445.131 Unsolicited merchandise; rights of recipients.

Sec. 1. No person, firm, partnership, association or corporation, or agent or employee thereof, in any manner, or by any means, shall offer for sale goods where the offer includes the voluntary and unsolicited sending of goods by mail or otherwise not actually ordered or requested by the recipient, either orally or in writing. The receipt of any such unsolicited goods shall be deemed for all purposes an unconditional gift to the recipient. The recipient may refuse to accept delivery of the goods, is not bound to return them to the sender, and may use or dispose of them in any manner he sees fit without any obligation on his part to the sender.

History: 1969, Act 28, Imd. Eff. July 10, 1969.

 

[manning]

I think this is the first time I've had one of my threads brought back from the dead years later.

At least one poster has said that keeping the pictures without paying is stealing. That's probably one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a long time.

If someone gives me something I didn't ask for, it's a gift. That's just common sense and it also happens to be the law (federal in the case of items mailed and state in every state I'm aware of)

NC General Statutes:
Unless otherwise agreed, where unsolicited goods are delivered to a person, he has a right to refuse to accept delivery of the goods and is not bound to return such goods to the sender. If such unsolicited goods are addressed to and intended for the recipient, they shall be deemed a gift to the recipient, who may use them or dispose of them in any manner without any obligation to the sender. (1969, c. 70, s. 1; 1977, c. 498.)

Some posters have asked what kind of message it is sending your kids if you keep the photos and don't pay for them. Well, it's sending them the message that you don't have to be manipulated by companies trying to take advantage of you. And it's sending the message that we should all follow the laws of the land.

I have no problems whatsoever with school fundraisers. We get things from the school all the time with requests for money for different fundraisers. Some of them we contribute to and some we don't. What I do have a problem with is the school participating in a scam where they send you things you didn't ask for, then say you have to pay for it or return it.

This may be a moot point for us, because I don't remember having this happen in the last couple of years. Perhaps the school got enough complaints from parents that they finally put a stop to it. Or maybe the school decided that lying and saying you are required to do something that the law states you are not required to do wasn't sending a very good message to the students.

This happened to someone I know. He did not return them and got the usual no return no Diploma. Friend said fine see you in court. A bluff. School said by the time you hire a lawyer it will cost you blah blah. He said let me clarify something for you, here's my card I am a lawyer.

They never sent him anything again.

 

[mill4023]

Keeping the pictures without paying for them might not technically be stealing, but it's unethical. I wouldn't trust anyone who would do something like that. It would just be a matter of time before they thought up some justification for screwing me over or taking something of mine.

What is unethical is the business and the school lying and saying you have to return them or pay for them, when the law very clearly says that unsolicited merchandise is a gift.

How is it unethical to accept a gift?

Or do you just have no regard for what the law says?

 

[mill4023]

For decades schools have done this, parents either sent them back or paid for them. Why is it now so difficult to do this. Why do so many parents want to fight with teachers and with schools. Is this a Dis thing?

It's not difficult at all. It's a matter of principle.

Parents don't want to fight with teachers and the school. Parents want to fight against an unethical business practice that consists of lying to parents to try to manipulate them into doing something the law clearly states they do not have to do.

Let's take the same business practice a little further. Would you be ok with Amazon shipping items to people that they didn't order, along with a letter that tells them they either have to pay for the item or ship it back?

If not, why not? It's the exact same concept.

 

[gina2000]

Lifetouch pays your school money for every picture taken regardless of whether or not you buy any part of the package.

Isn't that reason enough to participate? Just return them if you don't want them. It's really not that difficult and your school has an automatic built in profit by scheduling spring pictures.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

What is unethical is the business and the school lying and saying you have to return them or pay for them, when the law very clearly says that unsolicited merchandise is a gift.

How is it unethical to accept a gift?

Or do you just have no regard for what the law says?

Holy crap - THE LAW isn't saying you HAVE to keep them. The law is saying that if you do they will turn a blind eye to your petty thievery and you can live with your conscience. If you have one.

That law was basically designed for companies that send items through the US mail which would take some effort to return. But you know that already.

A poster above was right. This is one of the dumbest issues I have ever come across.

 

[smitch425]

My kids' school still does this. We get a notice and order form for pictures in the fall, but not for the spring. Spring pictures are on the official school calendar but there are no reminders or order forms sent home like in the fall, so I always forget about them until my kids bring them home. It's a full package of pictures and if you don't pay or send them back the school sends notes home. I hate that the school does this, especially when it's unsolicited and we're not told in advance so we could choose to opt out.

If it is on the school calendar, you were told in advance.

Our school used to do this years ago, but now we order the Spring pictures in advance, just like the Fall. I really don't get the big deal. If your kid comes home and says that pictures were sent home, and you know you don't want them, why take them out of the backpack in the first place?

 

[bcla]

This happened to someone I know. He did not return them and got the usual no return no Diploma. Friend said fine see you in court. A bluff. School said by the time you hire a lawyer it will cost you blah blah. He said let me clarify something for you, here's my card I am a lawyer.

They never sent him anything again.

If he had to go to court, would that count as pro bono work?

 

[mom2rtk]

It's not difficult at all. It's a matter of principle.

Parents don't want to fight with teachers and the school. Parents want to fight against an unethical business practice that consists of lying to parents to try to manipulate them into doing something the law clearly states they do not have to do.

Let's take the same business practice a little further. Would you be ok with Amazon shipping items to people that they didn't order, along with a letter that tells them they either have to pay for the item or ship it back?

If not, why not? It's the exact same concept.

If my kid attended school at Amazon and was carrying a backpack back and forth any day already, and the item added next to no weight to that backpack.......... then sure. I'd feel exactly the same.

 

[bcla]

Holy crap - THE LAW isn't saying you HAVE to keep them. The law is saying that if you do they will turn a blind eye to your petty thievery and you can live with your conscience. If you have one.

That law was basically designed for companies that send items through the US mail which would take some effort to return. But you know that already.

A poster above was right. This is one of the dumbest issues I have ever come across.

The laws are on the books to attempt to dissuade shady business practices. The laws don't turn a blind eye to anything. It would legally be a gift in almost every state.

 

[Art 1]

It's not difficult at all. It's a matter of principle.

Parents don't want to fight with teachers and the school. Parents want to fight against an unethical business practice that consists of lying to parents to try to manipulate them into doing something the law clearly states they do not have to do.

Let's take the same business practice a little further. Would you be ok with Amazon shipping items to people that they didn't order, along with a letter that tells them they either have to pay for the item or ship it back?

If not, why not? It's the exact same concept.

These are school pictures, it has to do with your children. To me there is a difference.