unschooling

[ols386]

Unfortunately for the taxpayers who have to pick up the slack, not all parents can be trusted to parent appropriately and the government should set minimum standards for education.

I live in a country where our children participate in standardized testing several times throughout their school careers. It helps to make sure they are not slipping through the cracks so to speak, and will help to identify any difficulties they may be having with the key fundamentals. I would think that most parents would be appreciative of that rather than condemning of the government for mandating it. As a matter of fact, I've never heard of anyone having issue with it here.

I think that's a good point. If you are homeschooling your child(ren), seems like you would want to know if they are having difficulties with key fundamentals, as you said.

As a parent, you want them to be prepared for college, if that's what they want to pursue. Or if not college, maybe some kind of trade school. Or if not, then just being prepared to go out into the world and be able to find employment, and to be able to function well.

 

[tink_lover]

Well, my SIL believes her children will learn all they need to learn from "life and love and play = education". Really!

 

[VillageMama]

If you are homeschooling your child(ren), seems like you would want to know if they are having difficulties with key fundamentals, as you said.

Personally, I agree. That's why I choose to give my children standardized placement tests. It gives me a sense of how my children are doing compared to the nation's children. I find that information helpful (and reassuring).

But there's a big difference between a parent choosing standardized testing and the government requiring it. For one thing, I can do something with the information. I can adjust our curriculum or our teaching methods.

The idea that giving school children these tests to make sure that no one slips through the cracks sounds good but has no real life application. If the majority of the class scores well in mathematics, but Susie doesn't... well, sucks to be Susie. Nothing changes for an individual based on those tests.

I asked before... what if a homeschooling child doesn't do well on the state mandated test? Then what? Does the state require the child be placed in the local public school? What if there are children in the school who also fail the test?

Until the state run schools can guarantee that they can educate every individual student, then the state needs to stay out of my individual children's lives.

There will always be students who slip through the cracks in school and there will always be those who claim to be "homeschooling". Bad cases make bad law, though. The government does what it can in offering a school option but it is impossible for the state to guarantee success.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am acountable to yearly testing, curriculum being approved, PE and Bible required, days present (180) w/ a report turned in 4 times a year, grades turned in 1st and 2nd semesters, a detailed report of every class she takes and details of what she did in each class and a grade.

I am accountable for 6 homeschooling continueing ed type of things for myself.

Homeschooling is a lot of work, my daughter is a sophomore and each year the work is more and harder, but worth it.

Unschooling would not work for us. I do not know enough to make any type of judgements because I just don't understand it and know it is wrong for us. DD is structured. She's up by 7 a.m. doing school and usually finishes somewhere between 1 and 3/3:30. High school takes a lot of TIME.

Treading likely--but is this your requirement or the state or are you enrolled in some type of umbrella/private school situation with those requirements.

B/c legally--a state cannot require one of the things listed above.

 

[JerseyJanice]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe than people on the Dis.

I have never heard of "unschooling" before. I don't know of anyone in real life who does it. For that matter, I don't even know anyone in real life who homeschools.

That aside, can't parents who are not educating their children be criminally charged with educational neglect? I know that they can be in New Jersey. I mean, if you say you're homeschooling because your children aren't enrolled in a formal school, at some point, don't you have to prove that they are actually receiving an education?

I feel like making sure your child receives an education is almost as important as feeding him or taking him to the doctor or dentist. Or putting clothing on his back. There are ought to be some minimum accountability for raising children in a civilized society.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Head over to mothering.com's forums for the unschooling threads. There you will learn more.

I've lurked there. It is a very odd place. Entertaining at times, but very odd.

Unless of course government "interference" only applies when they are telling you what to do, not when they are writing the cheques.

Exactly. The whole issue is hardly about being able to read books they like (unschooling) vs books they don't like (school). Those poor little (educated) darlings who didn't ENJOY the whole experience of reading a book they didn't like. I wonder how many doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, nurses, etc actually had to read things they didn't enjoy.

Funny thing...I actually found that I DID enjoy books that I "had to" read in school, that I never would have chosen otherwise.

Why didn't they have unschooling when we were kids? I could have spent my time in school reading Judy Blume. Instead I had silly teachers forcing me to read the classics. (Please don't tell anyone that many of the classics I was forced to read in high school are my favorite books now.)

The teenage girl on GMA made me chuckle. When she was asked if she was prepared for college, she said no, but if she decides to go to college, "I'll pick up a textbook and learn".

Wow, I want to live in her world. Instead I'm stuck in the real world, paying real money for my son to go to college.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe than people on the Dis.

I have never heard of "unschooling" before. I don't know of anyone in real life who does it. For that matter, I don't even know anyone in real life who homeschools.

That aside, can't parents who are not educating their children be criminally charged with educational neglect? I know that they can be in New Jersey. I mean, if you say you're homeschooling because your children aren't enrolled in a formal school, at some point, don't you have to prove that they are actually receiving an education?

I feel like making sure your child receives an education is almost as important as feeding him or taking him to the doctor or dentist. Or putting clothing on his back. There are ought to be some minimum accountability for raising children in a civilized society.

in our state, one option is to manage a portfolio and have it reviewed....

so an unschooler who is "legitimately" "unschooling" (sounds like an oxymoron)--would simply keep samples of things that they do. If the child is playing video games all year, their only other option that could work really would be standardized testing--hoping they score very well on a bubble sheet instead of controll--and then submitting those test results.

While I did not see the GMA piece--the unschoolers that I have heard (via my homeschool group message board)--aren't neglecting their kids all day.

So an unschooler can be held accountable even in states with accountability standards that are pretty strict.

 

[mhsjax]

Unfortunately for the taxpayers who have to pick up the slack, not all parents can be trusted to parent appropriately and the government should set minimum standards for education.

I live in a country where our children participate in standardized testing several times throughout their school careers. It helps to make sure they are not slipping through the cracks so to speak, and will help to identify any difficulties they may be having with the key fundamentals. I would think that most parents would be appreciative of that rather than condemning of the government for mandating it. As a matter of fact, I've never heard of anyone having issue with it here.

Probably because your system is run differently than ours. I don't know for sure. Anyway, our students are being taught to take the test, there is no learning for the sake of learning. If it isn't on the test, they don't have time.

I was in my DD class, stuffing the "Tuesday Folders" (the previous week's work) Anyway, they were very involved in a science discussion. The kids were very interested and asking great questions, the teacher even said so, Unfortunately, she had to tell them that as much as she would love to answer their questions and have them really learn about this. She had to move on and cover more stuff that was on the test. Even most teachers here have issues with it. My niece even called it, "teaching her little rats to run through the maze and get their cheese. (no disrespect for the kids, it was disrespect for the test)

 

[I Am What I Am]

This un-schooling thing fascinates me. I am home-schooled myself but I can't imagine just not doing anything like the family on GMA. I'm not the best student in the world but I accept there are thing I have to learn to be anything in life.

I can only IMAGINE what my kids would want to study. The eco-system of Bikini Bottom. The culture of Pokemon. Urban planning for Littlest Pet Shops. Fashion design for cats. While I am sure I could find a way to make those things educational, I would rather not.

Now that is a class I want to take.

 

[Buckalew11]

Treading likely--but is this your requirement or the state or are you enrolled in some type of umbrella/private school situation with those requirements.

B/c legally--a state cannot require one of the things listed above.

Yeah, Bible.

Required by my umbrella school. But I'm a like structure type so I'm OK with all of it. We're Christian so the Bible is also fine.
And actually, when you are able to put a together a time line of biblical history and World History it all starts to make more sense. Fun stuff.

 

[FayeW]

Personally, I agree. That's why I choose to give my children standardized placement tests. It gives me a sense of how my children are doing compared to the nation's children. I find that information helpful (and reassuring).

But there's a big difference between a parent choosing standardized testing and the government requiring it. For one thing, I can do something with the information. I can adjust our curriculum or our teaching methods.

The idea that giving school children these tests to make sure that no one slips through the cracks sounds good but has no real life application. If the majority of the class scores well in mathematics, but Susie doesn't... well, sucks to be Susie. Nothing changes for an individual based on those tests.

I asked before... what if a homeschooling child doesn't do well on the state mandated test? Then what? Does the state require the child be placed in the local public school? What if there are children in the school who also fail the test?

We (parents) do get the results of the standardized tests, and what percentile they have achieved based on the results for the rest of the province. We have the opportunity to discuss the results with the school resource officer and take remedial action if appropriate. Suzie would be identified as having problems in math, her parents would be notified, and they could take action by helping her with her homework, hiring a tutor, or requesting additional help from the teacher.

 

[Inigo]

I am acountable to yearly testing, curriculum being approved, PE and Bible required,

That's a state requirement? How do they get away with that?

ETA: I just saw your post where you say it's a requirement of the school/curriculum you are using.

 

[Inigo]

There could be more going on here. Several months ago I met someone who worked for our local school board. He actually worked in the truancy department of the school board. He mentioned that the latest method for dealing with truancy problems was to suggest that parents register as "homeschoolers."

Oh we get a lot of that too. If they "home school" they get off the school district's roles, and the school has a better attendance percentage.

 

[Planogirl]

Isn't the structure of college a little shocking to a kid that was unschooled? College professors won't go for following your interests and doing your own thing when you want to. The same with the workplace when it is time for that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yeah, Bible.

Required by my umbrella school. But I'm a like structure type so I'm OK with all of it. We're Christian so the Bible is also fine.
And actually, when you are able to put a together a time line of biblical history and World History it all starts to make more sense. Fun stuff.

Okay--

They were discussing state requirements and you popped in with yours and I was like...hold on there.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Isn't the structure of college a little shocking to a kid that was unschooled? College professors won't go for following your interests and doing your own thing when you want to. The same with the workplace when it is time for that.

Maybe, maybe not.

In College you do go to pursue your interests. There may be coursework along the wy that you don't agree with--but usually there are plenty of options on how to accomplish that coursework. (I did no lab-sciences as part of my degree. I had a disdain for science, I had a love for my major and no lab science for me.)

Unlike secondary public school--you usually have a wider range of choices to accomodate your interests.

Now if you want to go into medicine but dont' want to do a lab science at all--you'll have a big awakening.

Also--as far as career, I don't like science--so I did not pursue a science career.

I was public schooled--but I'm just posting this to say, that there are many options available to students and it is the rare student that is forced into a classroom they don't want to be in in college.

 

[MiniGirl]

Not only that, but by then, these students are no longer young children. They have grown and they should be able to see the big picture -- just like anybody else. They understand and accept that sometimes you need to do things you don't want to do to acheive an end goal.

Remember.... None of us have come out in support of the type of "unschooling" the families featured on GMA are doing. What they're doing should be called "not schooling" instead of unschooling. Remember unschooling does NOT mean that the parents aren't involved. It does NOT mean that the children and parents are EQUALS in the household. It does not mean the kids don't do chores, etc. It is simply a method of learning that takes advantage of using whatever subject your child is interested in at the time to facilitate learning.

 

[marlynnp]

This.Is.Not.True.


Head over to mothering.com's forums for the unschooling threads. There you will learn more. That's to everyone in this thread who thinks that whatever GMA chose to show about "unschooling" IS unschooling.


It's what I would have done, but DS likes structure more. He doesn't notice how much he learned in the 4 years before we started with workbooks and such...he picks things up like a sponge, and knows quite a bit without having been formally taught it.


There are lazy people who make everything look bad. That's what makes for good TV. Don't decide that good TV is an accurate depiction of something.

Well, I don't watch TV, and mothering is exactly where I learned about unschooling (and a lot of other crazy things - lot the pot smoking mamas.... oh, maybe that explains it...) and I wouldn't be promoting that place as a source for people to go to to see how great unschooling is. It's land of the loony over there. And it's no wonder there are posts about what to do if CPS comes knocking at the door.

These lazy parents are doing a huge disservice to their children.

 

[skater]

Not only that, but by then, these students are no longer young children. They have grown and they should be able to see the big picture -- just like anybody else. They understand and accept that sometimes you need to do things you don't want to do to acheive an end goal.

Remember.... None of us have come out in support of the type of "unschooling" the families featured on GMA are doing. What they're doing should be called "not schooling" instead of unschooling. Remember unschooling does NOT mean that the parents aren't involved. It does NOT mean that the children and parents are EQUALS in the household. It does not mean the kids don't do chores, etc. It is simply a method of learning that takes advantage of using whatever subject your child is interested in at the time to facilitate learning.

I agree. I also think that they probably featured the people most likely to cause the most controversy. While I'm not a big fan of unschooling, I believe that some families do it better than who was featured.

 

[coneygoil]

I was furious when I saw the unschooling story! I was homeschooled for my last 3 years of high school. I learned so much more from being homeschooled than I ever did at school. I also did a Christian-centered program, which kept my interest even more on my work. I taught pre-school for over two years and has had teaching experience in an elementary school. I am not for some ways that schools teach, but when it comes to a child receiving an education that will help them along in life, I am all for it.

There's very few children who will not become bums if they have no education. It was sad to see how the two unschooled teenagers answered the question about college. How do these kids expect to make it through college if they know nothing about what the textbook is talking about? Do they even know how to read or write or do math or know the history of our country? It just a sad situation those parents are putting their kids in