Universal announces details on diagon alley

[Eoghann]

See you're missing the point... Universal has universal Hollywood, many major additions coming, universal japan, major additions coming, they are going to build in china, and have other parks as well.... While the argument in this thread is centered on orlando, universal has other parks too that are also in the process of upgrading.

No I'm not missing the point. You're taking a single element of a rather long and complex argument and basing your dismissal only on that.

You're not even getting the point of that element right. It's about ROI.

The calculations for ROI for each of the companies are fundamentally different because their current situations are fundamentally different.

 

[mbrou24]

No I'm not missing the point. You're taking a single element of a rather long and complex argument and basing your dismissal only on that. You're not even getting the point of that element right. It's about ROI. The calculations for ROI for each of the companies are fundamentally different because their current situations are fundamentally different.

Yes I agree with that if you had read my post right before yours you would see I agree with that. You can't compare the two companies because they aren't the same. But you can compare their business philosophies and see that currently universal is more active in the parks and basically doing what Disney did back in the day. You can say I'm dismissing the point of roi, but your dismissing the fact that universal has an international presence as well. Your argument is essentially claiming ignorance to the improvement that universal has done. Yes right now Disney may not feel the pressure from it because they are a larger company, but that isn't the goal of universal. The goal of all the new attractions, hotels, restaurants is to create an experience that rivals Disney so that they may be able to slowly but surely grab more market share... Like I said in my original post which clearly you didn't read, the comparison being made in this thread is an argument that needs to be made years down the road.

 

[mvk]

These are all fine theories and all about the downfall of Disney (yes, hyperbole), the stunted growth of WDW, the loss of market share, Universal stealing days away, etc., but the facts don't back them up.

If Universal was stealing away market share, and days away from vacation goers, it would show in the statistics. That just hasn't happened.

It would take 20+ years of Disney doing nothing (And Universal continuing to add) for Universal to substantially cut into Disney's market share. But that isn't happening, we all know that. The last decade, Disney focused more in individual rides (Toy Story Midway Mania, Mission to Space, Expedition Everest, Soarin, etc). Now it looks like they're focusing more on heavily themed lands (FantasyLand, Avatar) and refurbishments/updates (Test Track, Star Tours, etc). I don't think there is any doubt upgrades to DHS and Epcot are coming up after Avatar, whether it is a Star Wars Galaxy, some sort of CarsLand, or something else at DHS, and an updated/upgraded Future World or a new World Showcase Pavillion at Epcot.

 

[ChrisFL]

See you're missing the point... Universal has universal Hollywood, many major additions coming, universal japan, major additions coming, they are going to build in china, and have other parks as well.... While the argument in this thread is centered on orlando, universal has other parks too that are also in the process of upgrading.

Universal actually has parks in:

Orlando
Hollywood
Singapore
Osaka

and in the planning stages are:

Moscow
South Korea
Beijing

 

[Eoghann]

Yes I agree with that if you had read my post right before yours you would see I agree with that. You can't compare the two companies because they aren't the same. But you can compare their business philosophies and see that currently universal is more active in the parks and basically doing what Disney did back in the day. You can say I'm dismissing the point of roi, but your dismissing the fact that universal has an international presence as well. Your argument is essentially claiming ignorance to the improvement that universal has done. Yes right now Disney may not feel the pressure from it because they are a larger company, but that isn't the goal of universal. The goal of all the new attractions, hotels, restaurants is to create an experience that rivals Disney so that they may be able to slowly but surely grab more market share... Like I said in my original post which clearly you didn't read, the comparison being made in this thread is an argument that needs to be made years down the road.

I read it. But my post... the one you responded to... predates your comment so how could I possibly be missing "the point?" when you hadn't even made it? I wasn't writing a counter to your unmade argument. I was addressing something else that was occurring in the thread. People playing Fantasy Themepark Builder.

MY point was that there is no credible scenario that puts Disney at threat this decade in Orlando for either attendance figures or marketshare. And they know it. Which is why they are operating the way they are.

They're making an assumption that the Avatarland expansion will not only stabilize the profitability/attendance of Animal Kingdom but also would counter Universal. But they know that even if they are wrong they will have plenty of time to course correct.

MY point was that people keep dreaming up scenarios that would force Disney to do what people would like (new lands, new attractions) now. But it's not going to happen because they just don't need to.

You keep harping on the international aspect, but you don't seem to get why it was in my post. It's only there to illustrate that Disney can and will spend money. But only when they have to. And right now they don't see a need in Orlando.

 

[mbrou24]

I read it. But my post... the one you responded to... predates your comment so how could I possibly be missing "the point?" when you hadn't even made it? I wasn't writing a counter to your unmade argument. I was addressing something else that was occurring in the thread. People playing Fantasy Themepark Builder. MY point was that there is no credible scenario that puts Disney at threat this decade in Orlando for either attendance figures or marketshare. And they know it. Which is why they are operating the way they are. They're making an assumption that the Avatarland expansion will not only stabilize the profitability/attendance of Animal Kingdom but also would counter Universal. But they know that even if they are wrong they will have plenty of time to course correct. MY point was that people keep dreaming up scenarios that would force Disney to do what people would like (new lands, new attractions) now. But it's not going to happen because they just don't need to. You keep harping on the international aspect, but you don't seem to get why it was in my post. It's only there to illustrate that Disney can and will spend money. But only when they have to. And right now they don't see a need in Orlando.

And I agree with that point. It's two companies while yes in the same industry, in two totally different situations. It's like I said in my initial post, people see one company doing so many things at once and scratch their head at the other company but don't realize that the other company already solidified it's brand long ago.

 

[tidefan]

See you're missing the point... Universal has universal Hollywood, many major additions coming, universal japan, major additions coming, they are going to build in china, and have other parks as well.... While the argument in this thread is centered on orlando, universal has other parks too that are also in the process of upgrading.

Universal Hollywood is horrible. We went there this past July and were extremely disappointed, especially after reading on all of these boards on how wonderful Universal is. Say what you want about investment in Orlando, but in California, Disney has put much greater investment into its parks (especially DCA) than Universal has...

 

[mbrou24]

Universal Hollywood is horrible. We went there this past July and were extremely disappointed, especially after reading on all of these boards on how wonderful Universal is. Say what you want about investment in Orlando, but in California, Disney has put much greater investment into its parks (especially DCA) than Universal has...

Ok but in the same respect in development right now at universal Hollywood is a complete Springfield, an entire despicable me land, and a wizarding world.

 

[tidefan]

Where? They weren't building anything when we were out there. I guess they could go into the backlot. USH seemed to me a bunch of jumbled up attractions wherever they could put them with about 20 different stores all selling the same 'minion' products...

 

[mbrou24]

Where? They weren't building anything when we were out there. I guess they could go into the backlot. USH seemed to me a bunch of jumbled up attractions wherever they could put them with about 20 different stores all selling the same 'minion' products...

http://www.screamscape.com/html/universal_studios_hollywood.htm

They are doing a lot to make over the park essentially because of exactly what you said, it was a mess.

 

[Silock]

If Universal was stealing away market share, and days away from vacation goers, it would show in the statistics. That just hasn't happened.

No, it hasn't and no one is saying otherwise. What is being discussed is the FUTURE.

It would take 20+ years of Disney doing nothing (And Universal continuing to add) for Universal to substantially cut into Disney's market share.

Again, this is assuming that current growth rates remain the same. That may not be the case, and it really doesn't take much to start a tipping point that provides big swings in the other direction. Universal's goal is to become number one in guest satisfaction and service. Disney hasn't reiterated that kind of commitment. They have reiterated a commitment to squeeze every last penny out of the guest that they can, though.

 

[mvk]

Universal's goal is to become number one in guest satisfaction and service. Disney hasn't reiterated that kind of commitment. They have reiterated a commitment to squeeze every last penny out of the guest that they can, though.

Do you really believe this? Disney is by far the leader in guest satisfaction and service, and they have not rolled back their commitment to this.

 

[ChipnDale79]

We are in the process of planning a trip for 2015 for 10, for the first time we are knocking 2 days off of our disney visit and spending 2 days at Universal.

We'll spend 5 days and 5 nights at WDW and then spend 2 days and 2 nights at Universal.

 

[Silock]

Do you really believe this? Disney is by far the leader in guest satisfaction and service, and they have not rolled back their commitment to this.

Again, that's one of those "for now" things. I'm certainly not satisfied with them right now. They made these FP changes far too quickly, and had I known I wouldn't have access like I did on my last trip, I wouldn't have scheduled the one I have in 2 days. I'm sure I'll have a good time, but I'm definitely not happy with the FP rollout, especially since I had to book a throwaway to get early FP reservations.

When another company makes the kind of commitment Universal has, you better be damn sure you're doing things right. Universal is making sure their food choices are different everywhere you go, and that you could get specific experiences in one place that you won't in another. Disney is trending a bit more toward the homogenization side.

 

[rteetz]

Again, that's one of those "for now" things. I'm certainly not satisfied with them right now. They made these FP changes far too quickly, and had I known I wouldn't have access like I did on my last trip, I wouldn't have scheduled the one I have in 2 days. I'm sure I'll have a good time, but I'm definitely not happy with the FP rollout, especially since I had to book a throwaway to get early FP reservations. When another company makes the kind of commitment Universal has, you better be damn sure you're doing things right. Universal is making sure their food choices are different everywhere you go, and that you could get specific experiences in one place that you won't in another. Disney is trending a bit more toward the homogenization side.

so a rollout over two years is too fast of a change? Everyone on these boards has a head start to what was coming compared to the average non planning guest. I personally think that this slow rollout was for the best, the rollout was actually originally scheduled to be completed by the end of last year but that didn't happen. Disney has been working this in since 2012.

 

[MissMaryQC]

I'm new to the love craze that is Harry Potter; just finished book three for the first time. I've been to the land in IoA and saw the early construction in US, so I'm excited to see how things unfold. I'm a Disney, have been since birth, but I LOVE thrill rides, so US/IoA has always appealed to me. Hopefully both parks will take a turn for the better and make some changes to up their anti in the other lands (Simpsons Land is well done, even though I was very sad to see BttF go). My thing is, why does one company have to be better than the other? They are so different in my eyes, why not just leave it that each is good in it's own way? The arguments that ensue on these pages are bizarre to me; these are theme parks, family vacation fun, that's all.

 

[mbrou24]

I'm new to the love craze that is Harry Potter; just finished book three for the first time. I've been to the land in IoA and saw the early construction in US, so I'm excited to see how things unfold. I'm a Disney, have been since birth, but I LOVE thrill rides, so US/IoA has always appealed to me. Hopefully both parks will take a turn for the better and make some changes to up their anti in the other lands (Simpsons Land is well done, even though I was very sad to see BttF go). My thing is, why does one company have to be better than the other? They are so different in my eyes, why not just leave it that each is good in it's own way? The arguments that ensue on these pages are bizarre to me; these are theme parks, family vacation fun, that's all.

Exactly.

I do want to point out something about the Harry potter sections at both ioa and the one coming to universal. I saw in an earlier post someone suggested a knight bus ride. I had thought of a ride a while back involving the flying ford anglia that would be similar to Peter Pan in magic kingdom, but the more I think about the Harry potter lands neither of those ride concepts would fit. The forbidden journey is something that takes place in hogwarts, and escape from gringotts will take place in gringotts, while yes there is land simulation. It seems that in the creation of these lands, universal wants to have a semi realistic approach. Which is why the buildings in diagon are full size buildings and not built to scale. The level of realness they are bringing to this expansion is incredible

 

[Disneychick75]

Do you really believe this? Disney is by far the leader in guest satisfaction and service, and they have not rolled back their commitment to this.

Notice I have been a DIS member for a short time. From what I've read and experienced, Disney has let their commitment go down the toilet. I've seen CMs arguing with each other, heard them using curse words, and not being very helpful. I've been going to Disney World since Magic Kingdom was Disney World in the mid 1970's. If service then was 100%, now I would grade it at 75% on a 10 point scale in comparison.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I'm new to the love craze that is Harry Potter; just finished book three for the first time. I've been to the land in IoA and saw the early construction in US, so I'm excited to see how things unfold. I'm a Disney, have been since birth, but I LOVE thrill rides, so US/IoA has always appealed to me. Hopefully both parks will take a turn for the better and make some changes to up their anti in the other lands (Simpsons Land is well done, even though I was very sad to see BttF go). My thing is, why does one company have to be better than the other? They are so different in my eyes, why not just leave it that each is good in it's own way? The arguments that ensue on these pages are bizarre to me; these are theme parks, family vacation fun, that's all.

I'm a late bloomer to HP as well, I'm 34 and finished all 7 books about a year or two ago.

I used to roll my eyes at people when they started talking about it, i was encouraged to pick up the first book and read it, so I did and boy oh boy I felt like i had been missing out.

I'm extremely excited about what Universal is doing.

 

[Silock]

so a rollout over two years is too fast of a change? Everyone on these boards has a head start to what was coming compared to the average non planning guest. I personally think that this slow rollout was for the best, the rollout was actually originally scheduled to be completed by the end of last year but that didn't happen. Disney has been working this in since 2012.

It wasn't rolled out to offsite guests over two years. They didn't even start really testing MBs in the parks until late last year.